# Harry Potters 3 - stupidest ending ever? (spoilers obviously)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potters-3-stupidest-ending-ever-spoilers-obviously/366782
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [July 31, 2006, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potters-3-stupidest-ending-ever-spoilers-obviously/366782 "2006-07-31T21:40:50Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2006, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potters-3-stupidest-ending-ever-spoilers-obviously/366782/1 "2006-07-31T21:40:50Z")
I just read it. Good build-up. Problems that need to be solved. And how are they solved? By time travel. Now the whole integrity of the universe is ruined.
How stupid is that?
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### Author:  [@glee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glee)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2006, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potters-3-stupidest-ending-ever-spoilers-obviously/366782/2 "2006-07-31T21:51:07Z")
Although the discovery of time travel has caused many effects in science fiction, I think you underestimate JK Rowling’s advanced planning.
She makes it clear that you can’t change the past.
When Harry and Hermoine are rushing about the first time, there are clues that something odd is going on (e.g. Harry is saved by a powerful Patroclus). When the two go back in time, it’s clear that everything they do has ‘already happened’ (so to speak), e.g. Harry summons the patroclus his previous time-self has already experienced.
Hope that makes sense!
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### Author:  [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2006, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potters-3-stupidest-ending-ever-spoilers-obviously/366782/3 "2006-07-31T22:31:22Z")
Actually, Rowling was careful to _preserve_ the integrity of her universe. Re-read the affected chapters. Nothing that happened the second time didn’t happen the first time. It’s just that events were misinterpreted the first time because Harry and the gang (and the reader) weren’t expecting time travel to be involved. Nothing really changes, Harry and Hermione are just doing two things at once.
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2006, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potters-3-stupidest-ending-ever-spoilers-obviously/366782/4 "2006-07-31T22:45:48Z")
Two things:
1. _Patronus_, not _Patroclus_ HP slash is for fanfic. 😃
2. HAPPY BIRTHDAY, Harry Potter! 😃
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### Author:  [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2006, 10:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potters-3-stupidest-ending-ever-spoilers-obviously/366782/5 "2006-07-31T22:46:42Z")
So tell me, what happens if Harry goes back in time and destroys all the time travelling devices? Or if he kills his other self?
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### Author:  [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2006, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potters-3-stupidest-ending-ever-spoilers-obviously/366782/6 "2006-07-31T22:59:11Z")
He can’t go back and do those things, because he hasn’t gone back and done those things. It seems that in the HP universe, time travel is the jigsaw-puzzle style, not the parallel universe style. When they go back in time, they don’t change anything.
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### Author:  [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2006, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potters-3-stupidest-ending-ever-spoilers-obviously/366782/7 "2006-07-31T23:05:34Z")
Which, in turn, means that they don’t really have free will.
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### Author:  [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2006, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potters-3-stupidest-ending-ever-spoilers-obviously/366782/8 "2006-07-31T23:14:07Z")
> [@Speaker for the Dead](#):
>
> Which, in turn, means that they don’t really have free will.
Which we already knew, given how we know that prophecy exists.
I’d argue, though, that it’s not so much that free will does not existant as much as some things are predestined.
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### Author:  [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2006, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potters-3-stupidest-ending-ever-spoilers-obviously/366782/9 "2006-07-31T23:23:04Z")
Good lord but my posts have been incomprehensible lately. Change that last one to read either “ **is** not exist **e** nt” or “does not exist”; I was clearly thinking of both at once.
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### Author:  [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2006, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potters-3-stupidest-ending-ever-spoilers-obviously/366782/10 "2006-07-31T23:35:09Z")
Indeed. I think it’s fair to say I’m obsessed with time travel, and I’m happy to say that Rowling is one of the few authors who’s gotten it right.
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### Author:  [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)
#### Post date: [July 31, 2006, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potters-3-stupidest-ending-ever-spoilers-obviously/366782/11 "2006-07-31T23:56:20Z")
Rowling may have been smart about how she played the time travel in her books, but clearly, [her characters were morons.](http://www.sluggy.com/daily.php?date=050918)
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### Author:  [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)
#### Post date: [August 1, 2006, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potters-3-stupidest-ending-ever-spoilers-obviously/366782/12 "2006-08-01T00:00:23Z")
> [@Rysto](#):
>
> Which we already knew, given how we know that prophecy exists.
>
> I’d argue, though, that it’s not so much that free will does not existant as much as some things are predestined.
“The prophecy is significant only because you and Voldemort choose to make it so. If you both chose to walk away, you could both live!”
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### Author:  [@Tracy\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tracy_Lord)
#### Post date: [August 1, 2006, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potters-3-stupidest-ending-ever-spoilers-obviously/366782/13 "2006-08-01T00:11:39Z")
> [@mr. jp](#):
>
> “The prophecy is significant only because you and Voldemort choose to make it so. If you both chose to walk away, you could both live!”
Whom are you quoting?
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### Author:  [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)
#### Post date: [August 1, 2006, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potters-3-stupidest-ending-ever-spoilers-obviously/366782/14 "2006-08-01T00:20:50Z")
> [@Miller](#):
>
> Rowling may have been smart about how she played the time travel in her books, but clearly, [her characters were morons.](http://www.sluggy.com/daily.php?date=050918)
Well I think it’s funny, because I thought the same thing.
> [@glee](#):
>
> (e.g. Harry is saved by a powerful Patroclus)
Ah so that’s who he saw across the lake, wearing his armor.
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### Author:  [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)
#### Post date: [August 1, 2006, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potters-3-stupidest-ending-ever-spoilers-obviously/366782/15 "2006-08-01T00:29:29Z")
> [@Tracy Lord](#):
>
> Whom are you quoting?
Dumbledore
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### Author:  [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)
#### Post date: [August 1, 2006, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potters-3-stupidest-ending-ever-spoilers-obviously/366782/16 "2006-08-01T00:41:00Z")
> [@saoirse](#):
>
> Well I think it’s funny, because I thought the same thing.
>
> Ah so that’s who he saw across the lake, wearing his armor.
I liked mine better.
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### Author:  [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)
#### Post date: [August 1, 2006, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potters-3-stupidest-ending-ever-spoilers-obviously/366782/17 "2006-08-01T00:54:58Z")
> [@mr. jp](#):
>
> “The prophecy is significant only because you and Voldemort choose to make it so. If you both chose to walk away, you could both live!”
Ah, but neither can make that choice, can they? Voldemort, by his nature, can’t ignore a threat, and Harry, by his nature, can’t let evil win. I choose to believe that the prophecy is fixed, and it’s fixed because of the natures of Harry and Voldemort.
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### Author:  [@mr.jp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mr.jp)
#### Post date: [August 1, 2006, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potters-3-stupidest-ending-ever-spoilers-obviously/366782/18 "2006-08-01T01:00:08Z")
> [@Rysto](#):
>
> Ah, but neither can make that choice, can they? Voldemort, by his nature, can’t ignore a threat, and Harry, by his nature, can’t let evil win. I choose to believe that the prophecy is fixed, and it’s fixed because of the natures of Harry and Voldemort.
I agree that the prophecy will come true. I think though, that there is a difference between something necessarily happening due to the psychological nature of people, and something necessarily happening because if it doesn’t it will create an error in the logical structure of existance.
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### Author:  [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)
#### Post date: [August 1, 2006, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potters-3-stupidest-ending-ever-spoilers-obviously/366782/19 "2006-08-01T01:03:13Z")
> [@Rysto](#):
>
> Ah, but neither can make that choice, can they? Voldemort, by his nature, can’t ignore a threat, and Harry, by his nature, can’t let evil win. I choose to believe that the prophecy is fixed, and it’s fixed because of the natures of Harry and Voldemort.
But not all prophecies are fixed; Dumbledore says that there are many that don’t come true. In this case though I agree with you that because of their natures, they have to fulfil it.
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### Author:  [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)
#### Post date: [August 1, 2006, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-potters-3-stupidest-ending-ever-spoilers-obviously/366782/20 "2006-08-01T05:14:01Z")
> [@Revenant Threshold](#):
>
> But not all prophecies are fixed; Dumbledore says that there are many that don’t come true. In this case though I agree with you that because of their natures, they have to fulfil it.
If they don’t come true, are they prophecies?
I think my argument is getting rather circular now. I guess my question is, what exactly characterized a prophecy in the Harry Potter universe that distinguishes it from Trelawney’s prediction that Harry would grow to a ripe old age, be Minister of Magic and have twelve children?
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