# Harry Reid: Filibuster Reform Will Be Pursued In The Next Congress **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [November 9, 2012, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-reid-filibuster-reform-will-be-pursued-in-the-next-congress/640513 "2012-11-09T19:46:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-reid-filibuster-reform-will-be-pursued-in-the-next-congress/640513/321 "2013-11-24T16:04:53Z")
> [@DoctorJ](#): > > Of course they’re not going to fire anyone. According to some people, that’s failing to “govern”. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-reid-filibuster-reform-will-be-pursued-in-the-next-congress/640513/322 "2013-11-24T16:45:05Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > According to some people, that’s failing to “govern”. Those are the shrill minority we should all pay no attention. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-reid-filibuster-reform-will-be-pursued-in-the-next-congress/640513/323 "2013-11-24T18:39:12Z")
[This](http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017160265) is what Senate Pubs were saying about the filibuster in 2005. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-reid-filibuster-reform-will-be-pursued-in-the-next-congress/640513/324 "2013-11-24T18:41:50Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Odds on what. That this is “an enormous win for Democrats”? Exactly how are you going to quantify this? By the number of hitherto-delayed nominees confirmed under the new rules? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-reid-filibuster-reform-will-be-pursued-in-the-next-congress/640513/325 "2013-11-24T18:43:26Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > By the number of hitherto-delayed nominees confirmed under the new rules? That’s the “enormous win”? Ah the self-delusion of soft expectations. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-reid-filibuster-reform-will-be-pursued-in-the-next-congress/640513/326 "2013-11-24T18:46:29Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > That’s the “enormous win”? Ah the self-delusion of soft expectations. Works for me. What ever removes conservatives from governing is a giant step forward. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-reid-filibuster-reform-will-be-pursued-in-the-next-congress/640513/327 "2013-11-24T19:01:30Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Yes, I think filibustering judiciary appointments is quite legitimate. The reason is that those are not positions that serve at President’s whim, and cannot be removed by subsequent administrations. Thus they have to reflect a reasonable consensus, and not just a momentary 51% majority. > > That is also the reason why I think filibustering other Presidential appointments that do serve at the whim of the President and can be fired at any time is not legitimate and should not happen. I would agree with you except that they are not filibustering judicial appointees over fears of what these particular judges might do if appointed. They are doing it to use gain leverage on some unrelated issue OR to deny any appointments at all to some courts. With that said, there is some apparent hypocrisy here on the Democratic side. Just as there is hypocrisy here on the Republican side. However, one of the reasons for preserving the filibuster back in 2005 was that the nuclear option would destroy the comity of the senate, I don’t think there is much comity left. Another distinction is that the Bush nominees were generally considered more partisan than Obama’s nominees, some people say that this perception is more the result of a generally liberal judiciary than the result of Bush’s nominees actually being out of the mainstream but thats the perception. > [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > Until, of course, there’s a Republican president who gets free reign to appoint “right wing loonies”. Then Dems will scream and cry foul. You have a cite that the filibustered nominees are left wing loonies? It seems pretty apparent that some highly qualified folks are being filibustered for the DC circuit purely because its the DC circuit. > [@Terr](#): > > Lack of consensus is lack of consensus. For any reason. So you don’t think it matters whether lack of consensus is the result of good faith or the result of obstructionism? > [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > Do you really fail to see how completely out of hand the situation has become or are you just choosing to ignore it? If you look at the links posted by Chimera it is clear how ridiculous the Republican obstruction has become. In case you missed it, here: > > It’s one thing to block nominees because they aren’t qualified or for some other valid reason. But to do it just because you’re pissed about the results of a couple of elections is childish. The difference is largely a difference of degree, not kind. I believe Democrats were the first to filibuster judicial nominees (and not just extreme right wingers, just judges that had a mild pro-life aura). While Obama’s nominees have been filibustered more than all previous presidents combined, I think the same can be said of bush’s nominees. > [@Omg\_a\_Black\_Conservative](#): > > The Democratic mantra as of late seems to be change the rules of the game mid-game to benefit yourself, and then blame it on someone else for “having” to change the rules mid-game. Mid-game? IIRC, Reid was going to change the rules at the beginning of the session but McConnell promised that these shenanigans would stop and they didn’t. I think you can get another bite at the apple when the other side reneges. > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Although, as I recall, last time a group of moderates from both sides got together and let the Republicans have their nominees as long as they weren’t too controversial. If there were enough moderates on the Republican side who would agree to let non-controversial Democratic nominees through then I bet Reid would also have backed down from the nuclear option. The moderates are all keeping their heads down. Hopefully they will be allowed to be reasonable again at some point in the future (when we have a white male president). > [@Terr](#): > > If Republicans have an ounce of self-respect they will use every trick in the book to frustrate the confirmations. The best argument for using the nuclear option has been that the Democrats had nothing to lose. The Republicans had already pulled all the stops. > [@Terr](#): > > You ain’t seen nothing yet, I suspect. I doubt there is anything more they could do that wouldn’t result in a serious backlash against the party. What are they going to do? Shut down the government again? Not raise the debt ceiling? > [@magellan01](#): > > No. We should have come up with another plan. I agree something had to be done. But you do the easy stuff first: tort reform, allowing insurance to be purchased over state lines, expanding health savings accounts, putting an end to, . Doing all those things would have improved the situation and made health insurance more affordable. That would have reduced the number of uninsured. And if we could get the number of uninsured down small enough, the problem we originally faced might have been a much easier problem to solve. One that wouldn’t require such a massive change to an entire industry that people depend on. Those are all stupid ideas. We needed fundamental health care reform and what we got was weak tea but it was better than any of those ideas. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-reid-filibuster-reform-will-be-pursued-in-the-next-congress/640513/328 "2013-11-24T19:22:59Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But you do the easy stuff first: tort reform . . . :rolleyes: [**That** bullshit again?!](http://www.amazon.com/Blocking-Courthouse-Door-Republican-Corporate/dp/0743277015) ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-reid-filibuster-reform-will-be-pursued-in-the-next-congress/640513/329 "2013-11-24T19:24:12Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > That’s the “enormous win”? Of course it is, in the exact sense of being the whole point of the whole thing. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-reid-filibuster-reform-will-be-pursued-in-the-next-congress/640513/330 "2013-11-24T19:59:40Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Apparently you can’t read. > > “Though the threshold for Obama to get his nominees confirmed fell by nine votes Thursday’s change in Senate rules, it doesn’t mean he’s going to be firing Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius\*\* or others\*\* anytime soon, press secretary Jay Carney said.” Once again, you have failed to distinguish between the whole, and a small part of the whole. You have to be able to make this critical - but incredibly easy, for most people - distinction, in order to fight ignorance. To sum up our dialogue, I pointed out that the end of the filibuster on Executive Branch (a big place, mind you) appointees enables Obama to exercise a simple but important tool of governance: to replace such appointees that he wants to replace. You are holding up his statement that he wouldn’t be firing people associated with the troubled [healthcare.gov](http://healthcare.gov) rollout (a much smaller set of people) as if it was a refutation of my statement. I could just as accurately say I drank the entire Mississippi River on account of having swallowed a thimbleful of muddy water. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-reid-filibuster-reform-will-be-pursued-in-the-next-congress/640513/331 "2013-11-24T22:17:29Z")
If it’s not an enormous win for the Democrats, then why is there enormous consternation from the Republicans? ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-reid-filibuster-reform-will-be-pursued-in-the-next-congress/640513/332 "2013-11-24T22:59:25Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > If it’s not an enormous win for the Democrats, then why is there enormous consternation from the Republicans? Maybe they were just a few quarts low on consternation. Just sayin’ … ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-reid-filibuster-reform-will-be-pursued-in-the-next-congress/640513/333 "2013-11-25T04:06:09Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :rolleyes: [**That** bullshit again?!](http://www.amazon.com/Blocking-Courthouse-Door-Republican-Corporate/dp/0743277015) > [@](#): > > … The plan is to allow those things that have been proposed over many years to reform a health-care system in America that certainly does need more help so that there’s more competition, **there’s less tort-reform threat** , there’s less trajectory of the cost increases. And those plans have been proposed over and over again. … > [Sarah Palin on ‘Today’](http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/erik-wemple/wp/2013/11/11/sarah-palin-on-today-obamacare-is-socialized-medicine/). Of course, that Palin just didn’t know what the fuck she was talking about should go without saying. CMC ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-reid-filibuster-reform-will-be-pursued-in-the-next-congress/640513/334 "2013-11-25T04:26:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Of course it is, in the exact sense of being the whole point of the whole thing. I mean, why do you think they changed the filibuster rule WRT presidential appointments **and nothing else?** ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 5:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-reid-filibuster-reform-will-be-pursued-in-the-next-congress/640513/335 "2013-11-25T05:24:39Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > How do you figure? You think independents like what Republicans have done with the filibuster? Do Independents even know WTF the filibuster IS? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-reid-filibuster-reform-will-be-pursued-in-the-next-congress/640513/336 "2013-11-25T15:16:52Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > :rolleyes: [**That** bullshit again?!](http://www.amazon.com/Blocking-Courthouse-Door-Republican-Corporate/dp/0743277015) :rolleyes: :rolleyes: You link to a book for sale, and in your mind that’ renders of my point “bullshit”? How long have you been posting here again? Hey, are you John Edwards in real life? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-reid-filibuster-reform-will-be-pursued-in-the-next-congress/640513/337 "2013-11-25T15:58:36Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > :rolleyes: :rolleyes: You link to a book for sale, and in your mind that’ renders of my point “bullshit”? The point is that the real agenda behind “tort reform” is entirely partisan. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-reid-filibuster-reform-will-be-pursued-in-the-next-congress/640513/338 "2013-11-25T19:00:29Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > The point is that the real agenda behind “tort reform” is entirely partisan. So? In your mind that automatically makes it “bullshit”? I’m shocked—SHOCKED—you would equate the two. PLease. Even Obama acknowledged that medical lawsuits, and the extraordinarily high judgements they can bring, can cause doctors and hospitals to practice defensive medicine, which raises the cost of healthcare overall. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-reid-filibuster-reform-will-be-pursued-in-the-next-congress/640513/339 "2013-11-25T19:35:04Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > So? In your mind that automatically makes it “bullshit”? I’m shocked—SHOCKED—you would equate the two. PLease. Even Obama acknowledged that medical lawsuits, and the extraordinarily high judgements they can bring, can cause doctors and hospitals to practice defensive medicine, which raises the cost of healthcare overall. [By like 2%.](http://www.nber.org/papers/w15371) Wanting to do tort reform first is like beginning the restoration of a car by changing the glove-box light. Big problems first, then we can talk about the small stuff like tort reform. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-reid-filibuster-reform-will-be-pursued-in-the-next-congress/640513/340 "2013-11-25T19:35:40Z")
None of the GOP apologists have responded to my question in #316. Is that because there is no answer beyond admitting GOP hypocrisy? I ask non-GOP Dopers to tell me if there was something inappropriate or unfair about that question. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-reid-filibuster-reform-will-be-pursued-in-the-next-congress/640513.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-reid-filibuster-reform-will-be-pursued-in-the-next-congress/640513.md?page=18)