# Harry S Truman or Harry S. Truman? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 14, 2007, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-truman-or-harry-s-truman/392197 "2007-02-14T14:54:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-truman-or-harry-s-truman/392197/1 "2007-02-14T14:54:44Z")
I was reading the NYT this morning, and one article referred to President “Harry S. Truman.” I said, “aha, another screwup by the _Times’_ copy editors!” My father-in-law disagreed. He acknowledged that President Truman was not given an middle name by his parents, and that he had later given himself a middle initial - S - that didn’t stand for any name. But, my FIL said, Truman may have given himself a period to go with that lovely S. I disagreed, because I seem to recall reading elsewhere that the “S” was naked - no period. Which one of us is right? (It’s proven hard to Google this question) Sua ---
**Author:** ![Enright3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/enright3/32/2897_2.png) [@Enright3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enright3)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-truman-or-harry-s-truman/392197/2 "2007-02-14T15:02:34Z")
Taken from: [http://www.trumanlibrary.org/speriod.htm](http://www.trumanlibrary.org/speriod.htm) > [@](#): > > The U.S. Government Printing Office Style Manual states that the period should be used after the “S” in Harry S. Truman’s name. There more there, but the above seems to answer your question. Including the factoid that > [@](#): > > Mr. Truman apparently initiated the “period” controversy in 1962 when, perhaps in jest, he told newspapermen that the period should be omitted. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-truman-or-harry-s-truman/392197/3 "2007-02-14T15:08:13Z")
If his middle name is just _S_, then his middle initial is _S_, so if you’re writing his whole name, it would be _Harry S Truman_, whereas if you’re abbreviating his middle name to an initial, and your style guide denotes you should use a dot in such circumstances, it would be _Harry S. Truman_ - although I think many established styles don’t use the dot after any initials nowadays anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-truman-or-harry-s-truman/392197/4 "2007-02-14T15:09:54Z")
Done from memory, so if someone can provide substantiation, it would be appreciated: Truman’s middle name was “S” – not adopted by him, but given by his parents, as a compromise between middle names honoring father’s and mother’s ancestry, the two preferred of which both began with S. So it “stood for” (but was not an actual abbreviation for) **S** olomon Young and the **S** hipp(e) family. Mr. Truman signed it indifferently, more often with the period than without. (Technically, his middle initial was S., and what it stood for was S with no period. ;)) ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-truman-or-harry-s-truman/392197/5 "2007-02-14T15:23:22Z")
[QUOTE=Mangetout] …although I think many established styles don’t use the dot after any initials nowadays anyway. [/QUOTE] Are you talking about in the US? I know that the British drop dots after “Mr” and “Ms,” and leave out the last comma of a list of items (“I’d like to thank my parents, Ayn Rand and God”), but I was not aware of any US customs that drop these marks. ---
**Author:** ![Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/73ab20/32.png) [@Alive\_At\_Both\_Ends](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alive_At_Both_Ends)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-truman-or-harry-s-truman/392197/6 "2007-02-14T15:34:02Z")
[QUOTE=CurtC] Are you talking about in the _US_? I know that the British drop dots after “Mr” and “Ms,” and leave out the last comma of a list of items (“I’d like to thank my parents, Ayn Rand and God”), but I was not aware of any _US_ customs that drop these marks. [/QUOTE] “US”? Don’t you mean “U.S.”? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-truman-or-harry-s-truman/392197/7 "2007-02-14T15:35:27Z")
Dunno… maybe I’m just not noticing the dots, but I’m sure I’ve seen, for example, _H G Wells_ quite a lot, in preference to _H.G. Wells_ ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-truman-or-harry-s-truman/392197/8 "2007-02-14T15:36:38Z")
Thanks for the answers, and for the bonus information that Pres. Truman hadn’t self-adopted the “S”, but it was given to him by his parents. Both I and my FIL got that wrong. I think I’ll start off by berating FIL’s stupidity about that point, before slipping in that he was right about the period. 😃 Sua ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-truman-or-harry-s-truman/392197/9 "2007-02-14T16:05:24Z")
[QUOTE=SuaSponte] I think I’ll start off by berating FIL’s stupidity about that point, before slipping in that he was right about the period. 😃 Sua [/QUOTE] And mumble the latter. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-truman-or-harry-s-truman/392197/10 "2007-02-14T16:57:39Z")
CurtC: > [@](#): > > (“I’d like to thank my parents, Ayn Rand and God”) Whose parents are Ayn Rand and G-d? Is this about the second coming or something? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-truman-or-harry-s-truman/392197/11 "2007-02-14T17:20:19Z")
[QUOTE=cmkeller] CurtC: Whose parents are Ayn Rand and G-d? Is this about the second coming or something? 😛 [/QUOTE] An apocryphal book dedication. Chaim, from someone who eschewed the [serial comma](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma). Note: Before calling it “apocryphal” I did a quick Google for its origin. Would you believe that nowhere on the net is that documented; even Snopes has no listing! This calls for the diligent researchers of GQ to correct this oversight. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![CookingWithGas](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cookingwithgas/32/485_2.png) [@CookingWithGas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CookingWithGas)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-truman-or-harry-s-truman/392197/12 "2007-02-14T17:55:39Z")
[QUOTE=Enright3] Taken from: [http://www.trumanlibrary.org/speriod.htm](http://www.trumanlibrary.org/speriod.htm) [/QUOTE] Note that this page also shows Truman’s own signature clearly placing a period after the S. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-truman-or-harry-s-truman/392197/13 "2007-02-14T18:11:22Z")
Many modern style guides, at least in the UK, do omit the full stop after an initial. It makes life easier and looks less fussy, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spatial_Rift_47)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-truman-or-harry-s-truman/392197/14 "2007-02-14T20:01:10Z")
The proper spelling is “Harry $ Truman.” ---
**Author:** ![C3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/c3/32/3108_2.png) [@C3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C3)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-truman-or-harry-s-truman/392197/15 "2007-02-14T20:04:08Z")
Could I add a quick question to this thread? Was HST’s given name Harry or was that a nickname? ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2007, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-truman-or-harry-s-truman/392197/16 "2007-02-14T20:12:03Z")
[Mrs. Grundy mode] Can one use the abbreviating period when one is not actually abbreviating? The middle name S is not being shortened when the period is applied, and is therefore not an abbreviation. [/MGm] His given name was indeed “Harry”. ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-truman-or-harry-s-truman/392197/17 "2007-02-15T04:07:20Z")
I have a middle name that is a letter plus a period, but not an abbreviation. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-truman-or-harry-s-truman/392197/18 "2007-02-15T13:55:46Z")
Quoting from [Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Truman): > [@](#): > > Truman did not have a middle name, only a middle initial. It was a common practice in southern states, including Missouri, to use initials, rather than names. In Truman’s autobiography, he stated, “I was named for…Harrison Young. I was given the diminutive Harry and, so that I could have two initials in my given name, the letter S. was added. My Grandfather Truman’s name was Anderson Shippe Truman and my Grandfather Young’s name was Solomon Young, so I received the S for both of them.” (Anderson’s name was also spelled Shipp.) He once joked that the S was a name, not an initial, and it should not have a period, but official documents and his presidential library all use a period. Furthermore, the Harry S. Truman Library has numerous examples of the signature written at various times throughout Truman’s lifetime where his own use of a period after the S is conspicuous. The Associated Press Stylebook has called for a period after the S since the early 1960s, when Truman indicated he had no preference.[49] The use of a period after his middle initial is not universal, however; the official White House biography does not use a period after his name. > > Truman’s bare initial caused an unusual slip when he first became President and had to take the oath of office. At a meeting in the Cabinet Room, Chief Justice Harlan Stone began reading the oath by saying “I, Harry Shippe Truman, …”! (Truman responded using his actual name: “I, Harry S. Truman, …”)[50] The quote is from the biography by David McCullough. How hard could it be to “Google” this? :dubious: 😕 ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-truman-or-harry-s-truman/392197/19 "2007-02-15T15:06:40Z")
There’s a little girl in my son’s kindergarten class whose first name is “K”. I wonder whether she should put a dot after her name? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2007, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-truman-or-harry-s-truman/392197/20 "2007-02-15T15:55:33Z")
[QUOTE=ElvisL1ves] His given name was indeed “Harry”. [/QUOTE] Although “Harry” is originally a diminutive of “Henry” (or, less commonly, “Harold”), I’ve never personally met someone named “Henry,” although I have met a small number of Harrys. Aside: “Harry” is also Indian English slang for a Bihari. “Bihar” = “Harryland.” Joke derivation that the state was named after an Engilshman named “B. Harry.” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-truman-or-harry-s-truman/392197.md?page=2)