# Harry S Trumans middle name **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 12, 2002, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-trumans-middle-name/103175 "2002-04-12T04:20:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Snupzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/54ee81/32.png) [@Snupzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snupzilla)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-trumans-middle-name/103175/21 "2012-01-17T02:37:54Z")
> [@Giles](#): > > That’s only true if everyone takes their father’s surname. At least one President of the U.S. had a surname that did not belong to one of his grandfathers: Gerald Ford’s grandfathers were Lynch and Gardner – he took his stepfather’s surname. As is the case with President William Jefferson Blythe III. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-trumans-middle-name/103175/22 "2012-01-17T02:37:57Z")
> [@antechinus](#): > > More info on the S in Harry S Truman. I did a search on “Harry Sergei Truman”, with correct spelling of Sergei, and was returned the URL… > www.skeptics.com.au/features/quiz/quiz0105.htm > A reference here says… > “For the truth of the matter, you have to either look at the birth records for Lamar Missouri > (there is only one Truman born there on May 8 1884 - “Harry Sergei Truman.” Read the autobiography of Allen W. Barkley (Truman’s VP) or read the superlative “an Underground Education” by Richard Zacks. It is for this reason alone that Harry Truman’s birth certificates are not on display at his presidential museum.” > > I was thinking that Astorians theory the Sergie rumour started via the George Burns movie was satisfactory, but now I dont know. > > Anyone live in Lamar Missouri? That link goes to nothing today and the Australian Skeptics site returns no entries for that name combination. There is nothing on Google today for “Harry Sergei Truman” except references to this post, which is being quoted as true. A search inside Alben (not Allen) W. Barkley’s autobiography, That Reminds Me, yields no hits for Sergei. Since there is no evidence whatsoever that such a birth certificate exists and no biographer of Truman refers to Sergei as a middle name, I have to conclude that if such a posting ever existed it was a hoax. I wanted to get this post on the record so that when Google comes up with this thread in the future nobody can take it as confirmation of something so silly. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-trumans-middle-name/103175/23 "2012-01-17T07:17:59Z")
I’d just like to point out that the thread title is missing an apostrophe. ---
**Author:** ![Pine\_Fresh\_Scent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/43a26b/32.png) [@Pine\_Fresh\_Scent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pine_Fresh_Scent)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-trumans-middle-name/103175/24 "2012-01-17T09:10:18Z")
Harry “Seven” Truman? SUSAN: Seven Costanza? You’re serious? GEORGE: Yeah. It’s a beautiful name for a boy or a girl… SUSAN: I don’t think so. GEORGE: What, you don’t like the name? SUSAN: It’s not a name. It’s a number. GEORGE: I know. It’s Mickey Mantle’s number. So not only is it an all around beautiful name, it is also a living tribute. SUSAN: It’s awful. I hate it! GEORGE: (angry) Well, that’s the name! SUSAN: (also angry) Oh no it is not! No child of mine is ever going to be named Seven! GEORGE: (yelling) Awright, let’s just stay calm here! Don’t get all crazy on me! ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-trumans-middle-name/103175/25 "2012-01-17T13:40:17Z")
> [@antechinus](#): > > I was told that the S in Harry S. Truman, a president of the USA elected at the end of the second world war . . . Just surprised to be the first SDMB pedant to point out that Truman was not elected President until more that three years after the end of the second world war. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-trumans-middle-name/103175/26 "2012-01-17T14:12:49Z")
In modern usage (at least in the UK) the style is increasingly to omit those fussy dots after initials, so the question is academic. It’s the BBC, not the B. B. C. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-trumans-middle-name/103175/27 "2012-01-17T14:26:18Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > I’d just like to point out that the thread title is missing an apostrophe. You mean it should be Harry S’ Truman? ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-trumans-middle-name/103175/28 "2012-01-17T14:33:02Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > In modern usage (at least in the UK) the style is increasingly to omit those fussy dots after initials, so the question is academic. It’s the BBC, not the B. B. C. Well, the Brits just make a mess of putting commas where there should be periods and periods where there should be commas, so it may be for the best that they just get out of the business all together. ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-trumans-middle-name/103175/29 "2012-01-17T14:46:10Z")
I guess this would be the attack of the zombie presidents. (runs) ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-trumans-middle-name/103175/30 "2012-01-17T14:50:11Z")
> [@Wheelz](#): > > You mean it should be Harry S’ Truman? Don’t be silly, everyone know’s apostrophe’s come _before_ an S. It’s Harry’S Truman. **bienville** - We do? If we do then Americans are equally guilty, as I think we follow the same system as them in that regard. Funny European types, on the other hand… ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-trumans-middle-name/103175/31 "2012-01-17T16:07:40Z")
I once had a chat with Gloria Steinem about how “Ms” should not have a period after it, as it is not an abbreviation, but a made-up word. _Mr_. is short for Mister; _Mrs_. is short for Mistress or Missus. But \*Miss \*is not an abbreviation and neither is _Ms_. Gloria Steinem agreed, but said, “well, it’s about 30 years too late for me to do anything about it _now_.” ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Downtown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Mr\_Downtown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Downtown)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-trumans-middle-name/103175/32 "2012-01-18T01:23:35Z")
I think [the man’s own practice](http://www.trumanlibrary.org/speriod.htm) would put to rest any pedantic objection. He used a period after the S. Period. David McCullough’s biography (p. 37) says “It could be taken to stand for Solomon or Shipp, but actually stood for nothing, a practice not unknown among the Scotch-Irish, even for first names.” ---
**Author:** ![antechinus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/fbc32d/32.png) [@antechinus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/antechinus)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-trumans-middle-name/103175/33 "2012-01-18T02:01:56Z")
Thanks for all your efforts working on this case over the last 10 years. I think we are getting closer to the truth. Keep up the good work. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-trumans-middle-name/103175/34 "2012-01-18T02:13:38Z")
> [@chrisk](#): > > I guess this would be the attack of the zombie presidents. (runs) Don’t be slly; it was FDR, not Truman, who had the Brains Trust. _(runs faster)_ ---
**Author:** ![bienville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@bienville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bienville)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-trumans-middle-name/103175/35 "2012-01-18T04:09:04Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > **bienville** - We do? If we do then Americans are equally guilty, as I think we follow the same system as them in that regard. Funny European types, on the other hand… Oh, my mistake. I thought our systems were flipped when working with numbers: one and one tenth being “1,1” for you guys, and one thousand being “1.000”. I stand corrected. It seems you are not as ridiculous as I thought you were. Only just ridiculous enough to say things like “aluminium”. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-trumans-middle-name/103175/36 "2012-01-18T04:14:48Z")
‘It is true that in British style, quotes are normally inside the punctuation’, he commented. “In American style, quote are normally outside.” ‘Hey, you use double quotes where we use single quotes.’ “‘Two countries separated by a common language,’ as Churchill said.” ‘I saw what you did there’. “Should that be, ‘I saw what you did there.’?” 'Now I’m totally confused…" ---
**Author:** ![barbitu8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/839c29/32.png) [@barbitu8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/barbitu8)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-trumans-middle-name/103175/37 "2012-01-18T21:34:13Z")
> **[What Was Harry S. Truman's Middle Name?](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/harry-truman-middle-name/)** > > Was President Harry Truman's middle name 'S'? ---
**Author:** ![Hari\_Seldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hari_seldon/32/5173_2.png) [@Hari\_Seldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hari_Seldon)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-trumans-middle-name/103175/38 "2012-01-18T23:03:18Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > In the normal FN-MI-LN format (Dwight D. Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy, George W. Bush), Harry’s name was Harry S. Truman. > > When written out, à la Franklin Delano Roosevelt, it was Harry S Truman. The S. stood for his middle name, which was S Carp, carp, carp. ---
**Author:** ![njtt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecd19e/32.png) [@njtt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/njtt)\ **Post date:** [January 19, 2012, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-trumans-middle-name/103175/39 "2012-01-19T17:59:51Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Since there is no evidence whatsoever that such a birth certificate exists and no biographer of Truman refers to Sergei as a middle name Obviously it is all a cover up. Truman was Russian. If not, why wouldn’t they just produce the birth certificate! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harry-s-trumans-middle-name/103175.md?page=1)