# Harsh Commentary from Ex-Obama Supporters **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 29, 2010, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839 "2010-08-29T00:15:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/1 "2010-08-29T00:15:05Z")
This week there have been several Op-Eds from people who were strong Obama supporters, which are just _scathing_ in their judgment. First, we have Mort Zuckerman, who was a big Obama booster, and even wrote one of his speeches. This week Mort unleashed on him: [The Most Fiscally Irresponsible Government in U.S. History](http://politics.usnews.com/opinion/mzuckerman/articles/2010/08/26/the-most-fiscally-irresponsible-government-in-us-history.html) The conclusion: > [@](#): > > But let’s not forget, current budgetary trends are capable of destroying the country. As Bowles pointed out, according to a Washington Post report, we can’t just grow our way out of this. We can’t just tax our way out of this. We have to do what governors do—cut spending or increase revenues in some combination that will begin to pull us back from the cliff. > > Obama must know that if he doesn’t address this, he will be the president who drove us toward a debt crisis. And so too must Congress, for both have now participated in the most fiscally irresponsible government in American history. Jim Cramer, former Obama booster, goes farther in an Op-Ed in [The Street](http://www.thestreet.com/story/10837898/1/cramer-bad-data-has-silver-lining.html): > [@](#): > > **Cramer: Bad Data Has Silver Lining** > Has “bad” turned good? Are we now rooting for crummy housing numbers, miserable housing data, weaker consumer confidence, and, yes, unfathomably horrible employment numbers? Do we now secretly lust for negative numbers? > > Maybe that turns on who “we” is. If you are an American business person, no, absolutely not, you’re not rooting for negative numbers. You want your business to thrive. Of course, you want to make more money. It’s what you do. > > But if you are an owner of stock, any stock, if you are using the stock market for retirement or for savings to put your kid through school or to augment your paycheck, I think you are now beginning to see the silver lining of the miserable economic news: change in Washington. In fact, every time we see a downtick in the popular polls for the administration or Congress the large stockholders I know secretly cheer. They can’t cheer out loud without looking like Scrooge. Or they fear the wrath of Obama, which, on Wall Street, by the way, feels like the wrath of Nixon. It is, however, how many of them privately feel. Basically, Cramer is saying that the fear of this administration’s policies on Wall Street is so strong that many are now secretly cheering for the economy to do even worse in the short term, because it will increase the probability of damage to the Obama administration’s agenda. He says this isn’t a Republican view - it’s the view of ex-Obama supporters on Wall Street. > [@](#): > > In fact, I would go so far as to say that there is almost a universal belief among all of the large firms – mutual and hedge and research – that if this president gets his way and the House and Senate stay Democrat we are going to decline precipitously. It is so palpable that it overrides any data that could come out, whether it be earnings, or inflation, or spending, or employment itself. > > But no one will say it! > > It is amazing to me that no one will break ranks and say out loud what they say to me 10 times a day: “This president hates business, hates successful business people, and hates the basic way business is done in this country!” The CEO of Intel [chimes in:](http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-20014563-38.html?tag=mncol;1n) > [@](#): > > **Intel CEO: U.S. faces looming tech decline** > > Intel Chief Executive Officer Paul Otellini offered a depressing set of observations about the economy and the Obama administration Monday evening, coupled with a dark commentary on the future of the technology industry if nothing changes. > > Otellini’s remarks during dinner at the Technology Policy Institute’s Aspen Forum here amounted to a warning to the administration officials and assorted Capitol Hill aides in the audience: unless government policies are altered, he predicted, “the next big thing will not be invented here. Jobs will not be created here.” > > The U.S. legal environment has become so hostile to business, Otellini said, that there is likely to be “an inevitable erosion and shift of wealth, much like we’re seeing today in Europe–this is the bitter truth.” > … > Otellini singled out the political state of affairs in Democrat-dominated Washington, saying: “I think this group does not understand what it takes to create jobs. And I think they’re flummoxed by their experiment in Keynesian economics not working.” > > Since an unusually sharp downturn accelerated in late 2008, the Obama administration and its allies in the U.S. Congress have enacted trillions in deficit spending they say will create an economic stimulus but have not extended the Bush tax cuts and have pushed to levy extensive new health care and carbon regulations on businesses. > > “They’re in a ‘Do’ loop right now trying to figure out what the answer is,” Otellini said. > > As a result, he said, “every business in America has a list of more variables than I’ve ever seen in my career.” If variables like capital gains taxes and the R&D tax credit are resolved correctly, jobs will stay here, but if politicians make decisions “the wrong way, people will not invest in the United States. They’ll invest elsewhere.” > > Take factories. “I can tell you definitively that it costs $1 billion more per factory for me to build, equip, and operate a semiconductor manufacturing facility in the United States,” Otellini said. > > The rub: Ninety percent of that additional cost of a $4 billion factory is not labor but the cost to comply with taxes and regulations that other nations don’t impose. This matches my perception as well - businesses aren’t investing because they perceive Washington as being hostile to them. The non-stop flood of regulations, proposed regulations, proposed taxes, and other interventions by the Obama administration, coupled with the constant-anti-business posturing of Obama, has shaken their confidence and made it impossible for them to know what the future business environment will look like. That’s a major reason why the U.S. economy has stalled while the rest of the world is recovering. Comments? ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/2 "2010-08-29T00:56:02Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > That’s a major reason why the U.S. economy has stalled while the rest of the world is recovering. > > Comments? I got one. It’s so ridiculous that you write these long OPs and don’t even bother to check the basic underlying facts. The US economy has not stalled compared to other G8 nations. Chart here: [http://www.oecd.org/document/11/0,3343,en\_2649\_33715\_45833419\_1\_1\_1\_1,00.html](http://www.oecd.org/document/11/0,3343,en_2649_33715_45833419_1_1_1_1,00.html) Quarter 2 of 2010 was slightly worse for the US compared to other 1st world economies, but Quarter 1 for the US was better. The US did better than most other G8 countries in the first half of 2010, but in reality they were basically equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/3 "2010-08-29T01:33:40Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > This week there have been several Op-Eds from people who were strong Obama supporters, which are just _scathing_ in their judgment. > > First, we have Mort Zuckerman, who was a big Obama booster, and even wrote one of his speeches. This week Mort unleashed on him: Let’s start off with some evidence that these guys were “strong Obama supporters”. And you might want to check on the speechy thing for MZ. You’ll find that he claimed to have written a speech, but then retracted that when called on it. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/4 "2010-08-29T02:02:03Z")
I’ll help you out with Otellini, because I know him. Not well, but I’ve met him a few times. He’s not a Democrat, and he supported McCain in 2008. He was one of the few notable Silicon Valley heavyweights who did not support Obama. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/5 "2010-08-29T02:12:21Z")
“Constant-anti-business posturing.” You are such a joke, Sam. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/6 "2010-08-29T02:21:20Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’ll help you out with Otellini, because I know him. Not well, but I’ve met him a few times. He’s not a Democrat, and he supported McCain in 2008. He was one of the few notable Silicon Valley heavyweights who did not support Obama. While I love to see **Sam** ’s OPs fall apart, I did a little poking around and found [this article](http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/02/10/intel-ceo-offers-some-support-for-economic-stimulus/) from 2009: > [@](#): > > Intel Corp. CEO Paul Otellini may have financially backed Arizona Senator John McCain’s presidential bid, but he offered support of President Barack Obama’s $800 billion-plus economic stimulus plan this morning. > > At a breakfast speech to the Economic Club of Washington, D.C., Otellini said he supported many of the provisions in the stimulus bill, particularly on the investment side. “This year, we are going to see an unprecedented level of public investment in schools, bridges, roads and healthcare. It is important. It will make a difference,” he said. So it’s not entirely silly to say he was an Obama supporter. But personally, I have absolutely no interest in anything Cramer has to say on financial matters, not after he made himself look the fool with the Daily Show’s help. ---
**Author:** ![montag01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@montag01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/montag01)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/7 "2010-08-29T02:24:38Z")
I’ll say this, if Obama’s harsh critics are Mort Zuckerman and Jim Cramer then I wish to god 2012 would hurry up so I can vote for Obama again. Mort Zuckerman was caught in a self-aggrandizing lie about writing a speech for Obama. Suddenly it just became “Oh, we had a private conversation, and something I said I’m sure influenced some speech given at some time.” Right. Sam Stone, please become a U.S. citizen if you actually care so much for our sociopolitical future . As it is, it’s like you’re following the United States on Twitter–you hear a few blurbs, but context is utterly lost on you. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/8 "2010-08-29T02:51:37Z")
Oh, look… it’s another **Sam Stone** anti-Obama thread. Did Obama whiz in your wheaties, or something? 'Cause I don’t understand why a Canadian citizen would hate an American President so much. ---
**Author:** ![Camus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ba8739/32.png) [@Camus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Camus)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/9 "2010-08-29T03:12:02Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > First, we have Mort Zuckerman, who was a big Obama booster, and even wrote one of his speeches. This week Mort unleashed on him: Zuckerman’s article is hardly “unleashing” on Obama, despite the sensationalist title. He basically says that Obama is in a long line of, Clinton aside, presidents who oversee the bloating of the federal budget. He even all but advocates allowing the Bush tax cuts to expire. As commentaries go, it’s not that harsh. > [@](#): > > The rub: Ninety percent of that additional cost of a $4 billion factory is not labor but the cost to comply with taxes and regulations that other nations don’t impose. Is the CEO of Intel saying that all of these taxes and regulations came about during the time of Obama’s administration or even since Democrats took control of Congress in 2006? Not likely. And the unstated part of this conclusion is that corporations are moving to countries such as Malaysia, Indonesia, and others whose laws and other protections for labor and working conditions are lax or virtually non-existent. These factories aren’t being re-located or built in Western Europe, Australia, or Japan. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/10 "2010-08-29T03:30:04Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > > [@John\_Mace](#): > > > > I’ll help you out with Otellini, because I know him. Not well, but I’ve met him a few times. He’s not a Democrat, and he supported McCain in 2008. He was one of the few notable Silicon Valley heavyweights who did not support Obama. > > While I love to see **Sam** ’s OPs fall apart, I did a little poking around and found [this article](http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/02/10/intel-ceo-offers-some-support-for-economic-stimulus/) from 2009: > > > [@](#): > > > > Intel Corp. CEO Paul Otellini may have financially backed Arizona Senator John McCain’s presidential bid, but he offered support of President Barack Obama’s $800 billion-plus economic stimulus plan this morning. > > > > At a breakfast speech to the Economic Club of Washington, D.C., Otellini said he supported many of the provisions in the stimulus bill, particularly on the investment side. “This year, we are going to see an unprecedented level of public investment in schools, bridges, roads and healthcare. It is important. It will make a difference,” he said. > > So it’s not entirely silly to say he was an Obama supporter. > > But personally, I have absolutely no interest in anything Cramer has to say on financial matters, not after he made himself look the fool with the Daily Show’s help. He’s not an Obama supporter. And it’s clear that \*\*Sam \*\*was talking about supporter in the sense of “backed him in his presidential bid”. But let’s think about your line of reasoning. Ted Kennedy supported No Child Left Behind, which was a major effort by George W. Bush. Clearly Ted Kennedy was a strong Bush supporter. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/11 "2010-08-29T03:58:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’ll help you out with Otellini, because I know him. Not well, but I’ve met him a few times. He’s not a Democrat, and he supported McCain in 2008. He was one of the few notable Silicon Valley heavyweights who did not support Obama. Intel knows how to create jobs. You bribe companies to not use your competitors products or delay the launch until you are competitive. I remember when Intel was led by men with honor. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/12 "2010-08-29T04:27:39Z")
Power corrupts, but money gets the job done quicker. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/13 "2010-08-29T04:32:16Z")
Zuckerman claimed to have helped write an Obama speech. I had no idea the claim was false. In any event, he was an Obama supporter. So was Cramer. I thought the CEO of Intel had been as well, but perhaps I was conflating his support for the stimulus with support for Obama himself. So let me modify: two former Obama supporters and a supporter of the stimulus wrote harsh editorials this week. Yes, I can see how that changes everything. Why, it renders the whole OP moot. I wouldn’t worry about those Op-eds at all. But it is nice to see the return of the personal atracks and the ‘you have no right to speak about this, Canadian’ argument. Because Lord knows, foreigners should never speak out about Obama unless they’re ready to kiss his ring. Mods, feel free to close this thread. I won’t be posting in it again. ---
**Author:** ![Randolph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Randolph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randolph)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/14 "2010-08-29T04:47:20Z")
Hey, you forgot your ball. ---
**Author:** ![Lamar\_Mundane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/85f322/32.png) [@Lamar\_Mundane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamar_Mundane)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/15 "2010-08-29T04:48:51Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Zuckerman claimed to have helped write an Obama speech. I had no idea the claim was false. In any event, he was an Obama supporter. So was Cramer. I thought the CEO of Intel had been as well, but perhaps I was conflating his support for the stimulus with support for Obama himself. So let me modify: two former Obama supporters and a supporter of the stimulus wrote harsh editorials this week. > > Yes, I can see how that changes everything. Why, it renders the whole OP moot. I wouldn’t worry about those Op-eds at all. > > But it is nice to see the return of the personal atracks and the ‘you have no right to speak about this, Canadian’ argument. Because Lord knows, foreigners should never speak out about Obama unless they’re ready to kiss his ring. > > Mods, feel free to close this thread. I won’t be posting in it again. Thank you, Emily Litella. You offer up a factually incorrect OP including lies, mischaracterations, and a Wall Street apologist complaining that new rules regulating his actions that nearly took down the country are unfair aren’t very compelling. I give the birthers more credit. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/16 "2010-08-29T04:56:32Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Zuckerman claimed to have helped write an Obama speech. I had no idea the claim was false. In any event, he was an Obama supporter. … So let me modify: two former Obama supporters and a supporter of the stimulus wrote harsh editorials this week. So you reject **John Mace’s** assertion in post 10? ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/17 "2010-08-29T05:03:44Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > “Constant-anti-business posturing.” You are such a joke, Sam. I don’t see the business community doing any handsprings right now. Housing is dead, foreclosures are rising and a trillion dollars was magically converted into future debt with nothing to show for it. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/18 "2010-08-29T05:51:20Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > You are such a joke, Sam. This is not appropriate in Great Debates. None of the following should have been posted, here, either. > [@Lightnin](#): > > Oh, look… it’s another **Sam Stone** anti-Obama thread. > > Did Obama whiz in your wheaties, or something? 'Cause I don’t understand why a Canadian citizen would hate an American President so much. > [@Randolph](#): > > Hey, you forgot your ball. > [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > Thank you, Emily Litella. Knock it off. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/19 "2010-08-29T06:31:15Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Power corrupts, but money gets the job done quicker. If you intended to accurately quote Lord Acton in the first part of that attempted jocularity, it should be “Power _tends_ to corrupt” (italics added). No thanks needed. Hey Sam! I need to find out what we’re supposed to be debating. That Obama’s key supporters are deserting him in droves and defecting to the G.O.P.? That the Obama Administration’s propping up Wall Street and key businesses has been more than canceled out by regulatory changes? That Jim Cramer, Mort Zuckerman and Paul Otellini are people I should have heard of? C’mon back. ---
**Author:** ![erez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@erez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erez)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/20 "2010-08-29T07:24:13Z")
> [@treis](#): > > > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > > > That’s a major reason why the U.S. economy has stalled while the rest of the world is recovering. > > > > Comments? > > I got one. It’s so ridiculous that you write these long OPs and don’t even bother to check the basic underlying facts. The US economy has not stalled compared to other G8 nations. Chart here: [http://www.oecd.org/document/11/0,3343,en\_2649\_33715\_45833419\_1\_1\_1\_1,00.html](http://www.oecd.org/document/11/0,3343,en_2649_33715_45833419_1_1_1_1,00.html) > > Quarter 2 of 2010 was slightly worse for the US compared to other 1st world economies, but Quarter 1 for the US was better. The US did better than most other G8 countries in the first half of 2010, but in reality they were basically equivalent. It’s usually a good idea to follow basic economic news if you want to criticize somebody for not knowing the facts, **treis**. The Q2 GDP growth in the U.S. was revised downward after the page you referenced was created. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839.md?page=2)