# Harsh Commentary from Ex-Obama Supporters **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 29, 2010, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839 "2010-08-29T00:15:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/21 "2010-08-29T09:49:05Z")
Here’s a harsh comment from a former Obama supporter. [Link](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YNNNmyVCt0) And notice the audience reaction - laughter and clapping. Very, very unusual behavior for both Letterman and his audience. The tide of popular opinion is turning against Obama, and frankly, I’m beginning to think Obama himself is growing tired of being president. His heart just doesn’t seem to be in it these days, and I’m beginning to get the feeling that he’s found the presidency to be a lot more of a hassle and a lot less rewarding than he thought it would be when he was running for office. Anybody else getting that impression? ---
**Author:** ![qpw3141](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/6bbea6/32.png) [@qpw3141](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/qpw3141)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 10:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/22 "2010-08-29T10:39:55Z")
> [@montag01](#): > > As it is, it’s like you’re following the United States on Twitter. That’s very good. I might plagiarise it at some point. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/23 "2010-08-29T12:25:07Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > > [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > > > “Constant-anti-business posturing.” You are such a joke, Sam. > > I don’t see the business community doing any handsprings right now. Housing is dead, foreclosures are rising and a trillion dollars was magically converted into future debt with nothing to show for it. The economy is doing bad. You think the stimulus has done nothing. How does this equate to “constant-anti-business posturing”? Not that you’re obliged to defend **Sam** ’s foolishness, but as he’s run off from his thread, perhaps you know what he’s talking about. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/24 "2010-08-29T12:32:49Z")
> [@erez](#): > > > [@treis](#): > > > > I got one. It’s so ridiculous that you write these long OPs and don’t even bother to check the basic underlying facts. The US economy has not stalled compared to other G8 nations. Chart here: [http://www.oecd.org/document/11/0,3343,en\_2649\_33715\_45833419\_1\_1\_1\_1,00.html](http://www.oecd.org/document/11/0,3343,en_2649_33715_45833419_1_1_1_1,00.html) > > > > Quarter 2 of 2010 was slightly worse for the US compared to other 1st world economies, but Quarter 1 for the US was better. The US did better than most other G8 countries in the first half of 2010, but in reality they were basically equivalent. > > It’s usually a good idea to follow basic economic news if you want to criticize somebody for not knowing the facts, **treis**. The Q2 GDP growth in the U.S. was revised downward after the page you referenced was created. Please excuse my gross oversight and mentally reduce that .6 to .4. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 12:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/25 "2010-08-29T12:52:36Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > But personally, I have absolutely no interest in anything Cramer has to say on financial matters, not after he made himself look the fool with the Daily Show’s help. Cramer must have some sort of hypnotizing effect on people that they still look to him as an authority. This is a man who was shown to be a spineless poltroon on every channel on TV, whose authority - such as it ever should have existed - on matters financial was blown to smithereens and then each of the smithereens was blown to microsmithereens, and someone quotes him as an authority? Are you kidding me? It’s like quoting Tiger Woods as an authority on remaining faithful in marriage. If Jim Cramer told me to invest in silver I would not only not invest in silver, I would divest my portfolio of any fund or company that was in silver, I’d sell everything in my house that was made of silver, and I’d burn any books I owned that mentioned “silver” more than once or twice. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/26 "2010-08-29T13:23:27Z")
What really has surprised me is that there hasn’t been more about Obama’s broken promises regarding the patriot act and other civil liberties eroded by Bush. For example, warrantless wiretaps: > **[Obameter: | PolitiFact](https://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/promise/180/end-warrantless-wiretaps/)** > > PolitiFact is a fact-checking website that rates the accuracy of claims by elected officials and others on its Truth-O-Meter. Although Poltifact considers this “In progress”, they also note that “the Obama administration sent a letter to Congress in September 2009 urging renewal of the three expiring powers”. I expected this thread to be about this stuff, not more ‘Obama hates business’ bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/27 "2010-08-29T14:44:12Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > . . . to defend **Sam** ’s foolishness, but as he’s run off from his thread, . . . . Given my earlier post, you are now on very thin ice. If you wish to make snide remarks, take it to the Pit. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/28 "2010-08-29T14:52:37Z")
The day you start punishing posters for calling positions and statements foolish is the day I happily leave the forum, **Tom**. So I’ll assume you meant I’m on thin ice because my post could be interpreted to insult Sam rather than his foolish statement. If that’s not correct, please clarify. ---
**Author:** ![A\_Dodgy\_Dude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a87d85/32.png) [@A\_Dodgy\_Dude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/A_Dodgy_Dude)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/29 "2010-08-29T15:23:45Z")
[ul] [li]A society _can’t_ tax itself into prosperity?[/li] [li]Social problems _can’t_ be solved by throwing money at them?[/li] [li]Pulling more and more (and still more) cash out of the private sector so Washington can redistribute it will _hurt_ the economy and society as a whole?[/li] [li]Being hostile to those who create create jobs and create wealth will _harm_ the country?[/li][/ul] Every junior high school kid paying attention to his or her social studies teacher learns these lessons. But Barack Obama, 44th President of the United States and Harvard grad (class of '91), refuses to accept them. I don’t think it matters to him what his former supporters say; he’s still going to refuse to accept them. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/30 "2010-08-29T15:59:12Z")
Dude, you should not have nodded off so much in class. 1. Obama cut taxes. Cut, cut, cut 2. Upgrading schools in bad areas can do that. We have a separate and inferior schools system in inner cities. The quality and opportunity are diminished partially due to that . 3. Bush did an extreme job of redistributing the wealth. The tax cuts for the wealthy have tipped the piggy bank in their direction on a level that has not been seen since the early 1900s. The concentration of wealth is obscene. 4. Job creation is a reflection of demand. If the wealthy are sitting on trillions of dollars of wealth, how does giving them more increase demand. The idea that they will build new industries and hire people in obviously wrong. Investment companies are screaming to get them to let go and invest. But, you think giving them more will do good? How? ---
**Author:** ![hansel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6bbea6/32.png) [@hansel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hansel)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/31 "2010-08-29T16:03:17Z")
On the one hand, what Otellini’s saying seems almost tautological: If the administration creates a beautiful and simple pro-business environment, then business will invest more than if the administration doesn’t create such an environment. Well, duh. OTOH, it seems, not just tremendously self-serving to offer that up as the wise analysis of a captain of industry, it seems thuggish. There’s an implied threat to with-hold investment if economic policy isn’t the way they want it to be–and damn the voters, damn the regulators, damn the economists warning that simply letting Galt be Galt isn’t the healthiest way to run the economy long-term. There’s quite a lot chutzpah in this, given how the Masters of the Universe on Wall St. nearly drove the world economy off a cliff when they got their way after the repeal of the regulatory apparatus in the 90s. Where’s Teddy Roosevelt when you need him? ---
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 4:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/32 "2010-08-29T16:16:37Z")
> [@](#): > > This matches my perception as well - businesses aren’t investing because they perceive Washington as being hostile to them. The non-stop flood of regulations, proposed regulations, proposed taxes, and other interventions by the Obama administration, coupled with the constant-anti-business posturing of Obama, has shaken their confidence and made it impossible for them to know what the future business environment will look like. > > That’s a major reason why the U.S. economy has stalled while the rest of the world is recovering. > > Comments? Yes. The government propping up Chrysler and General Motors, for example, is “anti-business posturing”? What the heck is “anti-business posturing” anyway? Is the OP’s position seriously that the current administration, or Congress, actually wants businesses to fail in the US? If so, that strikes me as pretty much a Rush Limbaugh level of factual distortion. There certainly seems to be some posturing going on in this thread, but it appears to be more in the vein of right-wing political advertising. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/33 "2010-08-29T16:32:22Z")
> [@DanBlather](#): > > Intel knows how to create jobs. You bribe companies to not use your competitors products or delay the launch until you are competitive. I remember when Intel was led by men with honor. Well, the latest charges against Intle are nothing new. They’ve had to answer to anti-competitive business practices several times in the last 2 decades. Otellini is the first non-Engineer to be running the show at Intel (he’s a marketing guy), but Barrett and Grove before him didn’t run things much differently. If you’re talking about Moore and Noyce, maybe, but that was before Intel became a powerhouse in the microprocessor company. It was a different company and a different business environment. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/34 "2010-08-29T16:39:03Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Zuckerman claimed to have helped write an Obama speech. I had no idea the claim was false. In any event, he was an Obama supporter. So was Cramer. I thought the CEO of Intel had been as well, but perhaps I was conflating his support for the stimulus with support for Obama himself. So let me modify: two former Obama supporters and a supporter of the stimulus wrote harsh editorials this week. > > Yes, I can see how that changes everything. Why, it renders the whole OP moot. I wouldn’t worry about those Op-eds at all. > > But it is nice to see the return of the personal atracks and the ‘you have no right to speak about this, Canadian’ argument. Because Lord knows, foreigners should never speak out about Obama unless they’re ready to kiss his ring. > > Mods, feel free to close this thread. I won’t be posting in it again. **Sam** : You may have a point to make in your OP, but when you get some fundamental facts wrong, it has that smell of being sourced from a right-wing blog. And your argument is really nothing more than an appeal to authority. So-and-so used to support Obama, and now has some harsh words. Well, the first part is completely irrelevant, and just makes your argument look weak. If they’re points have merit, they can stand on their own. And considering the shakiness of these guys’ support of Obama in the first place, one questions why you felt the need to use them as “authorities” in the first place. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/35 "2010-08-29T17:45:29Z")
[quote=“El\_Kabong, post:32, topic:551839”] > [@](#): > > Yes. The government propping up Chrysler and General Motors, for example, is “anti-business posturing”? What the heck is “anti-business posturing” anyway? . Rescuing GM and Chrysler has nothing to do with the business chaos created with the recent barrage of regulations. The government can’t begin to resuscitate each business that is wallowing right now. Beyond that, [both GM and Chrysler have grossly underfunded pension funds](http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1981958,00.html) which is going to blow up in our faces when the federal Pension Benefit Guarantee Corp. gets the bill. It’s already looking at billions in losses. After a trillion dollars of additional debt the economy is still in serious trouble, banks are still failing and mortgage failures are rising. With all this going on the current administration is still talking about cap-and-trade which will add additional burden to the economy. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/36 "2010-08-29T17:50:00Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Rescuing GM and Chrysler has nothing to do with the business chaos created with the \*\*recent barrage \*\*of regulations. Which regulations are you referring to? ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/37 "2010-08-29T18:06:04Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The tide of popular opinion is turning against Obama, and frankly, I’m beginning to think Obama himself is growing tired of being president. His heart just doesn’t seem to be in it these days, and I’m beginning to get the feeling that he’s found the presidency to be a lot more of a hassle and a lot less rewarding than he thought it would be when he was running for office. > > Anybody else getting that impression? No. And I have no idea where you got it yourself. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/38 "2010-08-29T18:09:18Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > > > The tide of popular opinion is turning against Obama, and frankly, I’m beginning to think Obama himself is growing tired of being president. His heart just doesn’t seem to be in it these days, and I’m beginning to get the feeling that he’s found the presidency to be a lot more of a hassle and a lot less rewarding than he thought it would be when he was running for office. > > > > Anybody else getting that impression? > > No. And I have no idea where you got it yourself. Yeah, that sounds like a lot of wishful thinking-- not something based in reality. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/39 "2010-08-29T18:13:18Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > > [@Magiver](#): > > > > Rescuing GM and Chrysler has nothing to do with the business chaos created with the \*\*recent barrage \*\*of regulations. > > Which regulations are you referring to? [Health care, drilling, banking…](http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB10001424052748704258604575360890212641082.html) The economy is stalled and no amount of government money is going to fix it. It has to come from the private sector. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 6:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/40 "2010-08-29T18:21:53Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > No. And I have no idea where you got it yourself. I don’t think there’s any serious doubt Obama looks and acts a lot wearier than he did two years ago. I doubt his heart isn’t in it, as SA would have us believe - Obama is a patriot and will serve out the next two to six years with dedication and duty - but it seems pretty clear the man isn’t attacking things with the alacrity he did starting with his campaign. But who the hell could? The thing is, _that happens to EVERY President_. Reality is a slap in the face starting January 21. Suddenly you have to deal with Congressional jackasses, business interests, cabinet members who fuck up, and world events that don’t go your way. You can’t plan for terrorist attacks, oil wells burbling poison into the Gulf of Mexico, unexpected recessions, political crises, and Christ knows what else. All Presidents age at a rate of a month a week. Sam Stone, who I actually like quite a lot, but who is prone to this sort of thing sometimes, comes up with three people, at least one of whom, Cramer, is both a liar and a clown (and who has been repeatedly attacking Obama almost since the day he was inaugurated) criticizing Obama. For God’s sake, he’s the President of the United States. If he doesn’t have three million people criticizing him by now, he’s doing something wrong. The Onion’s headline said it all: “Black Man Given Nation’s Worst Job.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839.md?page=3)