# Harsh Commentary from Ex-Obama Supporters **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 29, 2010, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839 "2010-08-29T00:15:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/41 "2010-08-29T18:24:54Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Here’s a harsh comment from a former Obama supporter. > > [Link](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YNNNmyVCt0) > > And notice the audience reaction - laughter and clapping. Very, very unusual behavior for both Letterman and his audience. > > The tide of popular opinion is turning against Obama, and frankly, I’m beginning to think Obama himself is growing tired of being president. His heart just doesn’t seem to be in it these days, and I’m beginning to get the feeling that he’s found the presidency to be a lot more of a hassle and a lot less rewarding than he thought it would be when he was running for office. > > Anybody else getting that impression? Yes, I got the impression he see’s the job as a lot more hassle and a lot less rewarding this year. His demeanor has changed. ---
**Author:** ![erez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@erez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erez)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/42 "2010-08-29T18:54:03Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > The economy is doing bad. You think the stimulus has done nothing. How does this equate to “constant-anti-business posturing”? Not that you’re obliged to defend **Sam** ’s foolishness, but as he’s run off from his thread, perhaps you know what he’s talking about. Are you seriously going to claim that Obama’s policies are good for businesses? You will definitely need to provide some evidence because that’s not what business owners think. “…sixty percent of small business owners either somewhat disapprove or strongly disapprove of how President Obama has handled the economy, up from 52 percent in 2009; while 39 percent strongly or somewhat approve, down from 47 percent last July.” ([http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/38308/20100726/small-business-owners-confidence-index-july-economy-recession-sba-obama.htm](http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/38308/20100726/small-business-owners-confidence-index-july-economy-recession-sba-obama.htm)). The support for Obama’s health plan among small business owners was low as well: “About a third of small business owners support President Barack Obama’s health care reform” ([http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/stories/2010/03/15/daily28.html](http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/stories/2010/03/15/daily28.html)). ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/43 "2010-08-29T18:58:51Z")
> [@erez](#): > > > [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > > > The economy is doing bad. You think the stimulus has done nothing. How does this equate to “constant-anti-business posturing”? Not that you’re obliged to defend **Sam** ’s foolishness, but as he’s run off from his thread, perhaps you know what he’s talking about. > > Are you seriously going to claim that Obama’s policies are good for businesses? You will definitely need to provide some evidence because that’s not what business owners think. “…sixty percent of small business owners either somewhat disapprove or strongly disapprove of how President Obama has handled the economy, up from 52 percent in 2009; while 39 percent strongly or somewhat approve, down from 47 percent last July.” ([http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/38308/20100726/small-business-owners-confidence-index-july-economy-recession-sba-obama.htm](http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/38308/20100726/small-business-owners-confidence-index-july-economy-recession-sba-obama.htm)). The support for Obama’s health plan among small business owners was low as well: “About a third of small business owners support President Barack Obama’s health care reform” ([http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/stories/2010/03/15/daily28.html](http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/stories/2010/03/15/daily28.html)). You’re saying two different things: First you ask if Obama’s policies are good for businesses. Then you quote disapproval ratings. The dinner I made last night was “good” for us. It did not get the same approval ratings as icecream and french fries. ---
**Author:** ![Bosstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/22d042/32.png) [@Bosstone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosstone)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/44 "2010-08-29T19:06:09Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > You’re saying two different things: First you ask if Obama’s policies are good for businesses. Then you quote disapproval ratings. > > The dinner I made last night was “good” for us. It did not get the same approval ratings as icecream and french fries. Perception is reality, apparently. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/45 "2010-08-29T19:08:29Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > > [@emacknight](#): > > > > Which regulations are you referring to? > > [Health care, drilling, banking…](http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB10001424052748704258604575360890212641082.html) > > The economy is stalled and no amount of government money is going to fix it. It has to come from the private sector. At first I wanted to be snarky and accuse you of suggesting with do away with regulations, then I read the first two paragraphs of your link: > [@](#): > > The White House has asked business leaders to identify specific regulations that they believe are obstacles to job-creating private investment. > > As part of a broad policy review, administration officials asked business leaders to identify specific rules that could be streamlined, although the administration hasn’t yet proposed revisions for any of the rules at issue. Isn’t that exactly what you want from a President/CEO/manager/boss/supervisor? Although, what are the chances a “business leader” can see past their own short sighted goals? All this is starting to sound like spoiled children: how dare you suggest the eat vegetables when what they really want is candy. ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/46 "2010-08-29T19:10:32Z")
> [@Bosstone](#): > > > [@emacknight](#): > > > > You’re saying two different things: First you ask if Obama’s policies are good for businesses. Then you quote disapproval ratings. > > > > The dinner I made last night was “good” for us. It did not get the same approval ratings as icecream and french fries. > > Perception is reality, apparently. And reality a commodity. The Koch brothers have billions to make sure people like **Sam Stone** and Glen Beck see the reality they want. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/47 "2010-08-29T19:15:29Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > > [@Magiver](#): > > > > [Health care, drilling, banking…](http://online.wsj.com/article/NA_WSJ_PUB:SB10001424052748704258604575360890212641082.html) > > > > The economy is stalled and no amount of government money is going to fix it. It has to come from the private sector. > > At first I wanted to be snarky and accuse you of suggesting with do away with regulations, then I read the first two paragraphs of your link: > > > [@](#): > > > > The White House has asked business leaders to identify specific regulations that they believe are obstacles to job-creating private investment. > > > > As part of a broad policy review, administration officials asked business leaders to identify specific rules that could be streamlined, although the administration hasn’t yet proposed revisions for any of the rules at issue. > > Isn’t that exactly what you want from a President/CEO/manager/boss/supervisor? Although, what are the chances a “business leader” can see past their own short sighted goals? > > All this is starting to sound like spoiled children: how dare you suggest the eat vegetables when what they really want is candy. No. You want him to act on the information he gets. The article says that hasn’t happened. Now, it might in the future, but just judging on the info we have at hand, I have to say your argument fails to convince. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/48 "2010-08-29T20:35:45Z")
> [@erez](#): > > > [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > > > The economy is doing bad. You think the stimulus has done nothing. How does this equate to “constant-anti-business posturing”? Not that you’re obliged to defend **Sam** ’s foolishness, but as he’s run off from his thread, perhaps you know what he’s talking about. > > Are you seriously going to claim that Obama’s policies are good for businesses? You will definitely need to provide some evidence because that’s not what business owners think. “…sixty percent of small business owners either somewhat disapprove or strongly disapprove of how President Obama has handled the economy, up from 52 percent in 2009; while 39 percent strongly or somewhat approve, down from 47 percent last July.” ([http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/38308/20100726/small-business-owners-confidence-index-july-economy-recession-sba-obama.htm](http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/38308/20100726/small-business-owners-confidence-index-july-economy-recession-sba-obama.htm)). The support for Obama’s health plan among small business owners was low as well: “About a third of small business owners support President Barack Obama’s health care reform” ([http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/stories/2010/03/15/daily28.html](http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/stories/2010/03/15/daily28.html)). As others have mentioned, opinion polls of businessmen are not an indication of whether a policy is good for business. Is it good for business to allow unregulated financial derivatives trading and CDS trading? Sure, until they get over leveraged and collapse, taking the economy down with them. Is it good for business to allow oil drilling a mile below sea level? Sure, until the blowout preventer doesn’t and tons of oil spews into the oceans. In the end we are left with objective measures of whether a government policy is “good for business”. So I leave you with this: S&P 500 Index: Jan 2001 1364 Jan 2009 831 Today 1065 I know which time-frame I prefer. Yourself? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/49 "2010-08-29T20:58:08Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > In the end we are left with objective measures of whether a government policy is “good for business”. So I leave you with this: > > S&P 500 Index: > Jan 2001 1364 > Jan 2009 831 > Today 1065 > > I know which time-frame I prefer. Yourself? Am I reading that right? Since Obama took office, nearly half of the previous 8 years loss in the S&P has been made up? I know that the S&P is a measure of stock trading, like the Dow Jones, but what does it tell us exactly? ---
**Author:** ![emacknight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3ec8ea/32.png) [@emacknight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emacknight)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/50 "2010-08-29T21:53:45Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > > [@Jas09](#): > > > > In the end we are left with objective measures of whether a government policy is “good for business”. So I leave you with this: > > > > S&P 500 Index: > > Jan 2001 1364 > > Jan 2009 831 > > Today 1065 > > > > I know which time-frame I prefer. Yourself? > > Am I reading that right? Since Obama took office, nearly half of the previous 8 years loss in the S&P has been made up? > > I know that the S&P is a measure of stock trading, like the Dow Jones, but what does it tell us exactly? Exactly? It tell us nothing. Some might use it as a measure of the confidence investors have in businesses and the economy. That is to say, they loved the deregulations from 2001 until July of 2007 when the Dow peaked at just over 14000. Then the results of the pro-business Republicans led to a massive economic failure, in the form of the Dow falling to nearly 6500. When Bush 43 took office on Jan 21st, 2001, the Dow was at 10,581. When he left office 8 years later the Dow was at 7,949. Now it’s at 10,150.65 I believe the \*\*Bricker \*\*answer to the OP would be, “How pro-business was the Bush administration?” Well, that would be his answer if he bothered to correct liberal-bashing threads. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [August 29, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/51 "2010-08-29T22:34:46Z")
> [@erez](#): > > > [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > > > The economy is doing bad. You think the stimulus has done nothing. How does this equate to “constant-anti-business posturing”? Not that you’re obliged to defend **Sam** ’s foolishness, but as he’s run off from his thread, perhaps you know what he’s talking about. > > Are you seriously going to claim that Obama’s policies are good for businesses? You will definitely need to provide some evidence because that’s not what business owners think. “…sixty percent of small business owners either somewhat disapprove or strongly disapprove of how President Obama has handled the economy, up from 52 percent in 2009; while 39 percent strongly or somewhat approve, down from 47 percent last July.” ([http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/38308/20100726/small-business-owners-confidence-index-july-economy-recession-sba-obama.htm](http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/38308/20100726/small-business-owners-confidence-index-july-economy-recession-sba-obama.htm)). The support for Obama’s health plan among small business owners was low as well: “About a third of small business owners support President Barack Obama’s health care reform” ([http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/stories/2010/03/15/daily28.html](http://www.bizjournals.com/baltimore/stories/2010/03/15/daily28.html)). This is bizarre. The claim(1) was that Obama engages in constant anti-business posturing. I pointed out that this is different from the claim(2) that the economy doing badly. Now, you interject with the claim(3) that businesses don’t like Obama’s policies, in support of the claim(4) that Obama’s policies hurt the economy. I’m pretty sure that’s the rarest and reddest herring of all, the double non-sequitur. Congratulations. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 2:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/52 "2010-08-30T02:27:33Z")
If Wall Street finds the current atmosphere favorable where are the jobs? what did we get with a trillion dollars of additional debt? ---
**Author:** ![erez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@erez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erez)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/53 "2010-08-30T03:34:03Z")
> [@emacknight](#): > > You’re saying two different things: First you ask if Obama’s policies are good for businesses. Then you quote disapproval ratings. Wrong, they are very related and likely the best indication that we have. Who else would know better about what’s good for businesses than their owners? Unless these small business owners are idiots that want their businesses to fail, their sentiment is a pretty good indication if Obama’s policies are anti-business or not. If you have better indicators, provide them. > [@emacknight](#): > > The dinner I made last night was “good” for us. It did not get the same approval ratings as icecream and french fries. Terrible argument. You are saying that people for which you made this dinner don’t have any idea about healthy eating, since they would prefer eating junk food instead of something healthy, so small-business owners must be same way and they must have no idea what’s good for them, even after they had over a year to experience the effects of some policies. Is the fact that their financial well-being depends on their businesses and that their full-time attention is focused on making their businesses succeed not only meaningless but a counter-indicator? The proper analogy would be if you made your dinner for a bunch of nutritionists and they gave it low marks. In that case, it would be pretty good evidence that it was really not good for them. ---
**Author:** ![erez](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e47c2d/32.png) [@erez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/erez)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 4:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/54 "2010-08-30T04:01:28Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > As others have mentioned, opinion polls of businessmen are not an indication of whether a policy is good for business. > > Is it good for business to allow unregulated financial derivatives trading and CDS trading? Sure, until they get over leveraged and collapse, taking the economy down with them. > > Is it good for business to allow oil drilling a mile below sea level? Sure, until the blowout preventer doesn’t and tons of oil spews into the oceans. > > In the end we are left with objective measures of whether a government policy is “good for business”. So I leave you with this: > > S&P 500 Index: > Jan 2001 1364 > Jan 2009 831 > Today 1065 > > I know which time-frame I prefer. Yourself? I can’t believe that anybody could seriously make such a terrible argument. On one hand you are criticizing opinion polls that are directly surveying small business owners about Obama’s policies and on the other hand you are saying that the stock market index of the largest public companies, which of course is not based on anything else than traders’ opinions, includes many other confounding factors, and has nothing to say about the effect on any small or even medium-size business, is somehow a better indicator. Let’s also note your use of the Jan 2001 low, not even, for example, Jan. 1, 2009, Nov. 4, 2008, or any date before that (when the probability that Obama would become a president was already high and his policies were known) to make your numbers look better. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/55 "2010-08-30T05:14:52Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > This week there have been several Op-Eds from people who were strong Obama supporters, which are just _scathing_ in their judgment. > > First, we have Mort Zuckerman, who was a big Obama booster, and even wrote one of his speeches. This week Mort unleashed on him: > > [The Most Fiscally Irresponsible Government in U.S. History](http://politics.usnews.com/opinion/mzuckerman/articles/2010/08/26/the-most-fiscally-irresponsible-government-in-us-history.html) > > The conclusion: > > > [@](#): > > > > But let’s not forget, current budgetary trends are capable of destroying the country. As Bowles pointed out, according to a Washington Post report, we can’t just grow our way out of this. We can’t just tax our way out of this. We have to do what governors do—cut spending or increase revenues in some combination that will begin to pull us back from the cliff. > > > > Obama must know that if he doesn’t address this, he will be the president who drove us toward a debt crisis. And so too must Congress, for both have now participated in the most fiscally irresponsible government in American history. > > Jim Cramer, former Obama booster, goes farther in an Op-Ed in [The Street](http://www.thestreet.com/story/10837898/1/cramer-bad-data-has-silver-lining.html): > > Basically, Cramer is saying that the fear of this administration’s policies on Wall Street is so strong that many are now secretly cheering for the economy to do even worse in the short term, because it will increase the probability of damage to the Obama administration’s agenda. > > He says this isn’t a Republican view - it’s the view of ex-Obama supporters on Wall Street. > > The CEO of Intel [chimes in:](http://news.cnet.com/8301-13578_3-20014563-38.html?tag=mncol;1n) > > > [@](#): > > > > **Intel CEO: U.S. faces looming tech decline** > > > > Intel Chief Executive Officer Paul Otellini offered a depressing set of observations about the economy and the Obama administration Monday evening, coupled with a dark commentary on the future of the technology industry if nothing changes. > > > > Otellini’s remarks during dinner at the Technology Policy Institute’s Aspen Forum here amounted to a warning to the administration officials and assorted Capitol Hill aides in the audience: unless government policies are altered, he predicted, “the next big thing will not be invented here. Jobs will not be created here.” > > > > The U.S. legal environment has become so hostile to business, Otellini said, that there is likely to be “an inevitable erosion and shift of wealth, much like we’re seeing today in Europe–this is the bitter truth.” > > … > > Otellini singled out the political state of affairs in Democrat-dominated Washington, saying: “I think this group does not understand what it takes to create jobs. And I think they’re flummoxed by their experiment in Keynesian economics not working.” > > > > Since an unusually sharp downturn accelerated in late 2008, the Obama administration and its allies in the U.S. Congress have enacted trillions in deficit spending they say will create an economic stimulus but have not extended the Bush tax cuts and have pushed to levy extensive new health care and carbon regulations on businesses. > > > > “They’re in a ‘Do’ loop right now trying to figure out what the answer is,” Otellini said. > > > > As a result, he said, “every business in America has a list of more variables than I’ve ever seen in my career.” If variables like capital gains taxes and the R&D tax credit are resolved correctly, jobs will stay here, but if politicians make decisions “the wrong way, people will not invest in the United States. They’ll invest elsewhere.” > > > > Take factories. “I can tell you definitively that it costs $1 billion more per factory for me to build, equip, and operate a semiconductor manufacturing facility in the United States,” Otellini said. > > > > The rub: Ninety percent of that additional cost of a $4 billion factory is not labor but the cost to comply with taxes and regulations that other nations don’t impose. > > This matches my perception as well - businesses aren’t investing because they perceive Washington as being hostile to them. The non-stop flood of regulations, proposed regulations, proposed taxes, and other interventions by the Obama administration, coupled with the constant-anti-business posturing of Obama, has shaken their confidence and made it impossible for them to know what the future business environment will look like. > > That’s a major reason why the U.S. economy has stalled while the rest of the world is recovering. > > Comments? A handful of extremely wealthy CEOs and wall street executive do not make up Obama’s base of supporters. Obama’s real supporters (liberals and labor) are angry at him because he is not very principaled, not a good negotiator, and moved too far to the right. On another note US business is doing great. Cash reserves are near 2 trillion and corporate profits are higher than they were before the recession. This myth that business is suffering isn’t true at all. Employees are suffering, business is doing great. I don’t know why/where this myth that business is struggling came from, they have more capital and profitability than they did before the recession. Also if the CEO of Intel claims Bush’s tax cuts create job, where the hell are the jobs from the 2001 and 2003 tax cuts? Job creation under BUsh was the worst in 80 years. Either way, for someone to claim a democratic government is hostile to tech is pretty comical when you consider the tech boom in the 90s under Clinton. Businesses aren’t investing because demand doesn’t exist and because they don’t know if the economy will collapse again (nobody knows when things will be stable). If demand comes back and stability comes back businesses will invest again. Socialist germany is doing better than the US right now economically. > **[Fareed Zakaria: Learning From The Example Of Germany](https://crooksandliars.com/nicole-belle/fareed-zakaria-learning-example-germa)** > > \[media id=17907\] (h/t Heather at VideoCafe) > > Everyone wants to be part of a winning team. It's human nature. But I've never understood the bizarre And so on, and so on. A fear of new regulations may play a role, but many of those regulations are necessary. Businesses said the same thing when child labor was abolished (this will destroy the economy, etc), they said the same thing when the minimum wage was implemented, when FICA taxes were implemented, when environmental regulations were put in place, etc. There will be bumps, but people will get through them. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/56 "2010-08-30T05:18:52Z")
> [@Lamar\_Mundane](#): > > > [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > > > Zuckerman claimed to have helped write an Obama speech. I had no idea the claim was false. In any event, he was an Obama supporter. So was Cramer. I thought the CEO of Intel had been as well, but perhaps I was conflating his support for the stimulus with support for Obama himself. So let me modify: two former Obama supporters and a supporter of the stimulus wrote harsh editorials this week. > > > > Yes, I can see how that changes everything. Why, it renders the whole OP moot. I wouldn’t worry about those Op-eds at all. > > > > But it is nice to see the return of the personal atracks and the ‘you have no right to speak about this, Canadian’ argument. Because Lord knows, foreigners should never speak out about Obama unless they’re ready to kiss his ring. > > > > Mods, feel free to close this thread. I won’t be posting in it again. > > Thank you, Emily Litella. > > You offer up a factually incorrect OP including lies, mischaracterations, and a Wall Street apologist complaining that new rules regulating his actions that nearly took down the country are unfair aren’t very compelling. > > I give the birthers more credit. Nearly took down the _world_, not nearly took down the country. ---
**Author:** ![adhay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecd19e/32.png) [@adhay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adhay)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/57 "2010-08-30T11:30:40Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Here’s a harsh comment from a former Obama supporter. > > [Link](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YNNNmyVCt0) > > And notice the audience reaction - laughter and clapping. Very, very unusual behavior for both Letterman and his audience. > > The tide of popular opinion is turning against Obama, and frankly, I’m beginning to think Obama himself is growing tired of being president. His heart just doesn’t seem to be in it these days, and I’m beginning to get the feeling that he’s found the presidency to be a lot more of a hassle and a lot less rewarding than he thought it would be when he was running for office. > > Anybody else getting that impression? Incredibly, **SA,** I agree with you. I’m basically apolitical. I’ve voted in two elections, against Nixon in '72 and for Obama in '08. When Nixon took 49 states, I figured either they don’t count the votes or I’m living in nation of idiots. Either way, I lost all interest. I adopted the motto, “Don’t vote. It only encourages them.” But Obama caught my eye and not because he’s black. Sitting Senator, Harvard trained Constitutional lawyer, community organizer, ‘associate’ of radicals and a promise to bring transparency to govt, progress to the people, a curb to Wall Street fraud and the coddling of the wealthy. Sounded like my kind of guy. Even so, I probably wouldn’t have voted except I had registered Green two years before to vote on a pot initiative (went down, 2-1, but I keep trying). But Obama looked like the Second Coming to me and I shared the global joy in getting rid of Bush. They partied in the streets for days, as you remember. I suppose their major interest was that he promised less military and more diplomacy in our foreign policy. And look at us, today. Fuck, I should have known. Obama is Bush in Blackface. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/58 "2010-08-30T11:59:24Z")
I constantly evaluate the quality of the information I get from the sources I seek out. When a source provides me with dubious or false information, I stop relying on them. I never just cut and paste stuff. Rather, I try to get to the primary sources used by whatever site I first saw something on. I do this because I am ashamed and embarrassed when I’ve chosen to reference or rely on something faulty. I would stop going to sites that led me astray, especially if it happened repeatedly. I recommend this practice for everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/59 "2010-08-30T15:50:52Z")
> [@erez](#): > > I can’t believe that anybody could seriously make such a terrible argument. On one hand you are criticizing opinion polls that are directly surveying small business owners about Obama’s policies and on the other hand you are saying that the stock market index of the largest public companies, which of course is not based on anything else than traders’ opinions, includes many other confounding factors, and has nothing to say about the effect on any small or even medium-size business, is somehow a better indicator. Let’s also note your use of the Jan 2001 low, not even, for example, Jan. 1, 2009, Nov. 4, 2008, or any date before that (when the probability that Obama would become a president was already high and his policies were known) to make your numbers look better. I don’t believe I did use the Jan low. I used whatever Yahoo uses when you request “monthly” stats. You are free to provide whatever numbers you want surrounding the relevant administration changes. If you want to look at small business, feel free to quote the Russell 2000. I can go ahead and tell you the results are similar. I find it hard to swallow that business leaders opinions are more relevant than the actual performance of the companies themselves. Let’s put it this way: which administration saw the collapse of four of the largest corporations in the world (Enron, Lehman Brothers, AIG, GM), two of which had to be bailed out by the government? Or perhaps this - if you were trying to figure out which parenting style was better for kids, would you poll the kids? Or would you look at graduation rates? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839/60 "2010-08-30T16:41:25Z")
You want me to pay attention to this shit? Show me that a Republican would have done better. Until someone from any party has good economic ideas _while in office_, I’ll keep voting on social issues - and I think we all know who wins that one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harsh-commentary-from-ex-obama-supporters/551839.md?page=4)