# Harvey Weinstein accused of multiple cases of sexual harassment **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 5, 2017, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073 "2017-10-05T23:31:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/201 "2017-10-11T20:29:36Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > In general I agree, but we live in a world of crazy people who do crazy things and in most proven false accusations I’ve read about the accuser is not someone who behaves rationally. So while I’d agree that most are telling the truth, there’s always some doubt. It seems to me that the most challenging thing to do is to believe the accuser but not crucify the accused when his or her guilt is in doubt. At the risk of turning this into a **tim314** / **adaher** love fest, I agree with you here, too. It’s a tough question. I believe strongly that proof beyond a reasonable doubt is the right standard when it comes to throwing someone in jail, but it’s not so obvious what the standard should be when it comes to, say, hiring someone for a job. I certainly wouldn’t hire a babysitter if I thought there was a 10% chance they might be a child molester, much less if I thought it was more likely than not. But of course that doesn’t mean I’d want them denied _any_ employment. It’s hard to know where to draw the line in which situation. I tend to believe the allegations against Bill Clinton are probably true, too. I would have voted for him if I wasn’t just a little too young still in '96. I still have a Clinton/Gore t-shirt somewhere in my closet. But if he were running for office today, I don’t think I could vote for him. The thought of voting for a President who, if I’m being consistent and not letting my politics blind me, I’d have to call “more likely than not a rapist” really doesn’t sit well with me. Trump, if he’s accomplished nothing else, has strengthened my resolve not to hold my nose and vote for someone in the event that we end up with a pussy-grabbing _liberal_ candidate in some future election. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/202 "2017-10-11T20:39:18Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > I’m not particularly familiar with the details of Woody Allen’s case, but I’m not sure what you find so pursuasive above. In particular, lie detectors are bullshit pseudo-science, whose greatest value seems to be in tricking people into confessing things. > > Regarding the claim that the kid at first denied it to the doctor, assuming that’s true it still doesn’t tell me much. Pedophiles often spend years “grooming” their victims, playing all sorts of mind games to get them not to tell anyone. To give one horrific example, I know of a case where someone had a small child convinced that the perpetrator could see them at all times, and could even wear the skin of other family members as a disguise, so the kid wouldn’t dare tell anyone what was happening. I know of another case with an older kid who was told that the perpetrator would murder their family if they told. In many cases kids are told no one would believe them, or that they would be the one who was blamed (both of which are, sadly, sometimes true). [My wife studied child molestation in graduate school (social work), which is why I have a lot of child abuse anecdotes.] The thing is, there is absolutely no evidence that Allen has ever engaged in pedophilic behavior apart from this one allegation. He’s dated adult women all his life and in light of all this publicity no one has ever said anything to indicate grooming behavior on his part. And then when you consider that he is claustrophobic, that he was in the middle of a highly contentious split with Farrow at the time and she would instantly seize upon anything she could to do him in, and that a half dozen other people were there, the idea he would suddenly choose that time to sneak up into the attic and sexually assault 7-year-old Dylan seems preposterous. It’s also telling that the basis for the story seems to be a song written by the probably bitter ex-wife of Andre Previn, whom Farrow stole while he was married. I imagine Mia found some sort of poetry in that particular little bit of skullduggery. Frank Sinatra’s valet, George Jacobs, wrote in his book that Farrow had a master plan of accomplished men she planned to marry and have children with. The list included Leonard Bernstein, Pablo Picasso, J. D. Salinger and Bob Dylan. (And he considered them to be friends, no less.) Mia Farrow is a shrewd, cunning, manipulative, egotistical and self-serving bitch who’s pretty much ruined her daughter’s life with her efforts to get revenge on Woody Allen. I wouldn’t believe her if she said the sun was shining without first looking to see for myself. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/203 "2017-10-11T21:09:59Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Consensual behavior has nothing to do with sexual assault. There are accusations of assault against Clinton (and Trump), but that’s not one of them. If Clinton had, say, bragged on tape about sexually assaulting women, that would be additional evidence on top of these accusations. Omg…Clintons behavior was textbook sexual harassment carried out yards away from his wife and daughter. Its despicable to try to wave his behavior away. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/204 "2017-10-11T21:55:05Z")
> [@Luv40](#): > > And that’s the problem. Hollywood claims to be so progressive but fine with men in power being sexual predators. Yes, it’s terrible the way Hollywood has rallied around Weinstein since he was accused. Oh, no wait… Weinstein was quickly fired and is being publicly condemned and ostracized. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/205 "2017-10-11T22:00:23Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Omg…Clintons behavior was textbook sexual harassment carried out yards away from his wife and daughter. Its despicable to try to wave his behavior away. Since Lewinsky herself has openly admitted that she initiated the affair, no, it’s actually not textbook sexual harassment. I know, I know, it doesn’t fit your ideology. Too fucking bad. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/206 "2017-10-11T22:01:45Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Yes, it’s terrible the way Hollywood has rallied around Weinstein since he was accused. > > Oh, no wait… Weinstein was quickly fired and is being publicly condemned and ostracized. In no way shape or form was he quickly fired. He got away with the abuse for decades. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 10:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/207 "2017-10-11T22:06:51Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Yes, it’s terrible the way Hollywood has rallied around Weinstein since he was accused. > > Oh, no wait… Weinstein was quickly fired and is being publicly condemned and ostracized. Quickly fired? After years of covering for him? ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/208 "2017-10-11T22:08:21Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Since Lewinsky herself has openly admitted that she initiated the affair, no, it’s actually not textbook sexual harassment. I know, I know, it doesn’t fit your ideology. Too fucking bad. It is textbook sexual harassment. The most powerful man in the country taking advantage of an intern and grabbing her by the p…you are in serious denial intoxicated by your ideology. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/209 "2017-10-11T22:28:28Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > It is textbook sexual harassment. The most powerful man in the country taking advantage of an intern and grabbing her by the p…you are in serious denial intoxicated by your ideology. I’ll say it again. Lewinsky has openly admitted that she initiated the affair. You know what’s sexist and patronizing? Not acknowledging that women can choose to initiate sex. Textbook sexual harassment is the use of power and/or intimidation to _coerce_ someone of lesser power and/or a subordinate to submit against their will. This clearly was not the case with Clinton and Lewinsky. I’m sorry this simple distinction escapes you. In fact, Clinton’s biggest sin is being a crappy, non-reciprocal lover. I would say it’s adultery, but seeing that republicans just elected a serial adulterer, and turned a blind eye to another (Gingrich,) I don’t think that particular sin resonates. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/210 "2017-10-11T22:44:14Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > I’ll say it again. Lewinsky has openly admitted that she initiated the affair. You know what’s sexist and patronizing? Not acknowledging that women can choose to initiate sex. > > Textbook sexual harassment is the use of power and/or intimidation to _coerce_ someone of lesser power and/or a subordinate to submit against their will. This clearly was not the case with Clinton and Lewinsky. I’m sorry this simple distinction escapes you. > > In fact, Clinton’s biggest sin is being a crappy, non-reciprocal lover. I would say it’s adultery, but seeing that republicans just elected a serial adulterer, and turned a blind eye to another (Gingrich,) I don’t think that particular sin resonates. Again, Clinton was accused of forcing himself on women, exposing himself to women, and rape. I don’t know what Clinton’s biggest sin is, but I’m 99% sure it’s something worse than “being a crappy, non-reciprocal lover”. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/211 "2017-10-11T22:52:34Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > I’ll say it again. Lewinsky has openly admitted that she initiated the affair. You know what’s sexist and patronizing? Not acknowledging that women can choose to initiate sex. > > Textbook sexual harassment is the use of power and/or intimidation to _coerce_ someone of lesser power and/or a subordinate to submit against their will. This clearly was not the case with Clinton and Lewinsky. I’m sorry this simple distinction escapes you. > > In fact, Clinton’s biggest sin is being a crappy, non-reciprocal lover. I would say it’s adultery, but seeing that republicans just elected a serial adulterer, and turned a blind eye to another (Gingrich,) I don’t think that particular sin resonates. Oddly, Harvey Weinstein can and is using the Blank Slate defense against charges of sexual harassment. Sexual activity between boss and subordinate is by definition harassment. It doesn’t matter what Lewinsky claims. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/212 "2017-10-11T23:16:31Z")
> [@madsircool](#): > > Sexual activity between boss and subordinate is by definition harassment. I’d like to see that definition. It _often is sexual harassment. It often_ is a terrible idea. But I don’t think it’s harassment “by definition” without more. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/213 "2017-10-11T23:16:46Z")
> [@treis](#): > > In no way shape or form was he quickly fired. He got away with the abuse for decades. > [@madsircool](#): > > Quickly fired? After years of covering for him? If you guys have known about it for all that time, you really should have said something. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/214 "2017-10-11T23:34:16Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Again, Clinton was accused of forcing himself on women, exposing himself to women, and rape. I don’t know what Clinton’s biggest sin is, but I’m 99% sure it’s something worse than “being a crappy, non-reciprocal lover”. I’m sorry, would typing slowly help your comprehension? I was specifically addressing the affair between Clinton and Lewinsky, which should have been obvious since the only two people I mentioned were Clinton and Lewinsky. > [@madsircool](#): > > Oddly, Harvey Weinstein can and is using the Blank Slate defense against charges of sexual harassment. Sexual activity between boss and subordinate is by definition harassment. It doesn’t matter what Lewinsky claims. Sexist nonsense, and patronizing beyond belief. The ignorance displayed in this thread is mind-boggling. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/215 "2017-10-12T00:10:04Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Yes, it’s terrible the way Hollywood has rallied around Weinstein since he was accused. > > Oh, no wait… Weinstein was quickly fired and is being publicly condemned and ostracized. Because the MEDIA outed him and he became expendable. If he’s the only one who goes down, that means Hollywood still protects sexual predators. I’m not even calling for heads here. How about something like a Truth and Reconciliation commission, where people who come forward and confess their misdeeds get a sort of social amnesty? While Weinstein is being kind of schizoid, he has seemed to internalize that he’s done terribe things and according to reports I may have rushed to judgment on Lisa Bloom, who was apparently hired before this all became public to help Weinstein behave better. So how about we “reeducate” Hollywood for lack of a less loaded term, and then Hollywood can truly claim to set an example for other industries. A more draconian approach would be to treat Hollywood like a college campus and make them use Title IX standards when addressing harassment or assault allegations. “Preponderance of evidence” standards and you’re out of the industry if convicted in their tribunals. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/216 "2017-10-12T00:14:55Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’d like to see that definition. It _often is sexual harassment. It often_ is a terrible idea. But I don’t think it’s harassment “by definition” without more. There are actually situations where consensual sex between two adults is a crime. Some states bar teachers and students, and many businesses consider what Clinton did a firing offense. To bring Trump back into this as well though, I’ve said this before and I’ll stand by it: we may say we hold politicians to a high standard, but our response towards wrongdoing by politicians says that we hold them to the lowest of standards when it comes to a wide range of behaviors. Trump has said so many things as President which would get him fired from most Fortune 500 companies. ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/217 "2017-10-12T00:20:09Z")
FTR, I think Weinstein is guilty as hell. I’m not even a big Bill Clinton fan, but I’m far more disgusted by the Marc Rich pardon than the non-harassment affair with Lewinsky. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/218 "2017-10-12T01:23:04Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > I’d like to see that definition. It _often is sexual harassment. It often_ is a terrible idea. But I don’t think it’s harassment “by definition” without more. Yes, I agree. I don’t think a boss is guilty of sexual harassment if her underling suddenly grabs her bosom. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/219 "2017-10-12T01:40:20Z")
It’s sad that the casting couch is alive and well and making movies. ---
**Author:** ![GuanoLad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guanolad/32/42_2.png) [@GuanoLad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GuanoLad)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2017, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/220 "2017-10-12T02:52:12Z")
> [@tim314](#): > > It would be great if this were true, but what are you basing this on? Since writing that post I am no longer so certain. But it just seems like the Lefty Hollywood crowd are generally more socially aware and supportive than in the olden days, so it’s more of a rarity. I am quite possibly wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073.md?page=12)