# Harvey Weinstein accused of multiple cases of sexual harassment **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 5, 2017, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073 "2017-10-05T23:31:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/101 "2017-10-10T22:07:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Then every guy who hit on a unwilling potential partner is sexual harassment. …so we do need to explain to you what sexual harassment is, and why this isn’t the simple case of a guy asking a girl out on a date. Thanks for clearing that up. We will start with the basics. > **[Sexual harassment](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_harassment)** > > Sexual harassment is a type of harassment involving the use of explicit or implicit sexual overtones, including the unwelcome and inappropriate promises of rewards in exchange for sexual favors. Sexual harassment can be physical and/or a demand or request for sexual favors, making sexually colored remarks, showing pornography, and any other unwelcome physical, verbal, or non-verbal conduct of a sexual nature. Sexual harassment includes a range of actions from verbal transgressions to sexual ab "Sexual harassment is bullying or coercion of a sexual nature, or the unwelcome or inappropriate promise of rewards in exchange for sexual favors. In most modern legal contexts, sexual harassment is illegal. As defined by the United States’ Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC), “It is unlawful to harass a person (an applicant or employee) because of that person’s sex.” Harassment can include “sexual harassment” or unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical harassment of a sexual nature. " “But these weren’t employees!” I’m expecting you to say next. If that is what you are going to say next, I’ll address that then. > [@](#): > > He wasnt putting roofies in drinks. Strawman. We are talking sexual harassment. This isn’t in dispute. You acknowledge you “see unwanted advances.” Unwanted advances, in the context of the power differential that we are seeing here, is clearly and undisputedly sexual harassment. > [@](#): > > Or firing women who wouldnt put out. What were the potential consequences for women who didn’t “put out?” What were the actual real-world consequences for the many women (including many that we don’t know about) who didn’t “put out”? ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/102 "2017-10-10T22:08:20Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Then every guy who hit on a unwilling potential partner is sexual harassment. > > He wasnt putting roofies in drinks. Or firing women who wouldnt put out. He was called a subordinate( actor in one of his productions )to a meeting in his _hotel room_ where he requested in escalating order a back rub, then a massage, then to have said actor watch him shower and pick out his clothes. Each new refusal created a new, stronger request. That doesn’t strike you as sexual harassment? I’m pretty sure anybody in my own management structure who pulled that little stunt would be on a express train to unemploymentville. With a side stop at lawsuit village. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/103 "2017-10-10T22:11:19Z")
You can ask someone out and it’s not sexual harassment, but he went quite a bit further than that. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/104 "2017-10-10T22:16:21Z")
> [@Tamerlane](#): > > He was called a subordinate( actor in one of his productions )to a meeting in his _hotel room_ where he requested in escalating order a back rub, then a massage, then to have said actor watch him shower and pick out his clothes. Each new refusal created a new, stronger request. That doesn’t strike you as sexual harassment? Was there a point when the actor didn’t have a choice? ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/105 "2017-10-10T22:25:57Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > Was there a point when the actor didn’t have a choice? Coercion is not a necessary component of sexual harassment. Sexual harassment includes unwelcome advances, as well as unwelcome offers of rewards in exchange for sexual favors. The fact that you have the ability to refuse the unwelcome advances or offers is not relevant to whether it is harassment. We are not talking here about sexual assault, which is a different crime. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/106 "2017-10-10T22:27:40Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Coercion is not a necessary component of sexual harassment. Sexual harassment includes unwelcome advances, as well as unwelcome offers of rewards in exchange for sexual favors. The fact that you have the ability to refuse the unwelcome advances or offers is not relevant to whether it is harassment. > > We are not talking here about sexual assault, which is a different crime. I haven’t anyone claim they said to HW “I’m uncomfortable with this” - have they? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/107 "2017-10-10T22:33:56Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I haven’t anyone claim they said to HW “I’m uncomfortable with this” - have they? …saying “I’m uncomfortable with this” is not a prerequisite for sexual harassment. This is really fucking basic stuff. You should join with DrDeth and start by reading the wiki primer on sexual harassment. ---
**Author:** ![up\_the\_junction](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f1d935/32.png) [@up\_the\_junction](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/up_the_junction)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/108 "2017-10-10T22:37:23Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …saying “I’m uncomfortable with this” is not a prerequisite for sexual harassment. > > This is really fucking basic stuff. You should join with DrDeth and start by reading the wiki primer on sexual harassment. You can shove your condescending attitude; mind reading is not part of any offence I am aware of. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/109 "2017-10-10T22:40:36Z")
> [@up\_the\_junction](#): > > I haven’t anyone claim they said to HW “I’m uncomfortable with this” - have they? Ashley Judd: “I said no, a lot of ways, a lot of times, and he always came back at me with some new ask” Rosanna Arquette: [After he tried to put her hand on his penis]“I will never do that.” Lucia Evans: ““I said, over and over, ‘I don’t want to do this, stop, don’t” Gwyneth Paltrow says that when he put her hands on her and requested a massage, she refused. In each of these cases, Weinstein subsequently threatened them and told them that they wouldn’t get parts or would be unable to work for him. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/110 "2017-10-10T22:44:40Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …so we do need to explain to you what sexual harassment is, and why this isn’t the simple case of a guy asking a girl out on a date. Thanks for clearing that up. We will start with the basics. > > [Sexual harassment - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_harassment) > > "Sexual harassment is bullying or coercion of a sexual nature, or the unwelcome or inappropriate promise of rewards in exchange for sexual favors. > “But these weren’t employees!” I’m expecting you to say next. If that is what you are going to say next, I’ll address that then. > > What were the potential consequences for women who didn’t “put out?” What were the actual real-world consequences for the many women (including many that we don’t know about) who didn’t “put out”? “coercion of a sexual nature, or the unwelcome or inappropriate promise of rewards in exchange for sexual favor” Can you show coercion? Can you show “inappropriate promise of rewards”. Apparently\* you\* are the one that needs a education here. And no they werent employees. Yes, what were the consequences? No one has implied they didnt get a job due to this. Gwynyth Paltrow, Ashley Judd, Angelina Jolie, Rose McGowan, and Rosanna Arquette are all still working. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/111 "2017-10-10T22:47:15Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Ashley Judd: “I said no, a lot of ways, a lot of times, and he always came back at me with some new ask” > > Rosanna Arquette: [After he tried to put her hand on his penis]“I will never do that.” > > Lucia Evans: ““I said, over and over, ‘I don’t want to do this, stop, don’t” > > Gwyneth Paltrow says that when he put her hands on her and requested a massage, she refused. > > In each of these cases, Weinstein subsequently threatened them and told them that they wouldn’t get parts or would be unable to work for him. Allegations. All of which came out after the publicity. None of which were said under oath. If all these allegations are true and such open and shut cases, why has he never been successfully sued? Why did so many settle for peanuts? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/112 "2017-10-10T22:56:33Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Apparently\* you\* are the one that needs a education here. …an education on sexual harassment? No I don’t need that. You need to read the entire article, not just the fair-use-snippet I quoted. _Thats just a primer._ You have so much to learn. When you’ve finished reading that, we can chat. > [@](#): > > And no they werent employees. In the context of sexual harassment and Harvey Weinstein, why do you think that matters in this case? > [@](#): > > Yes, what were the consequences? No one has implied they didnt get a job due to this. Gwynyth Paltrow, Ashley Judd, Angelina Jolie, Rose McGowan, and Rosanna Arquette are all still working. And how many are not? This was going on for fucking decades. Waiting staff talked about how he had a different woman with him practically every night. You’ve listed five women. How about the rest of them? ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/113 "2017-10-10T22:57:39Z")
I’ll grant that there’s a small chance he’s innocent. There’s also a small chance that Bill Cosby and OJ are innocent. But the evidence says they are probably guilty. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/114 "2017-10-10T23:06:25Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I’ll grant that there’s a small chance he’s innocent. There’s also a small chance that Bill Cosby and OJ are innocent. But the evidence says they are probably guilty. …and of course we aren’t in a court of law. We are in cafe society, where people have said harsher things about Taylor Swift than they have or will about Harvey. ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/115 "2017-10-10T23:11:11Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Allegations. All of which came out after the publicity. None of which were said under oath. > > If all these allegations are true and such open and shut cases, why has he never been successfully sued? Why did so many settle for peanuts? Why did he step down? Why did he issue the public statement he did? Why did the board of TWC fire him? Still, keep on white-knighting an abuser. It’s a hobby I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![SpoilerVirgin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/4491bb/32.png) [@SpoilerVirgin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SpoilerVirgin)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/116 "2017-10-10T23:11:35Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Yes, what were the consequences? No one has implied they didnt get a job due to this. Gwynyth Paltrow, Ashley Judd, Angelina Jolie, Rose McGowan, and Rosanna Arquette are all still working. Dawn Dunning says that Harvey Weinstein told her that he had contracts for her to appear in his next three films, but that she could only sign them if she had a three-way with him. She refused and he told her that she would never make it in the business. He did not sign her and she eventually became a costume designer. Louisette Geiss says that he told her he would greenlight her script, but she had to watch him masturbate. She refused, and eventually left the entertainment industry. Different women had different experiences. Some told him no, and went on to make films for other producers. Some told him no, were unable to get other work, and left the industry. Some went along with him, and had varying degrees of success in their careers. All of them were sexually harassed, which is wrong whether or not there was coercion, and whether or not they later had successful careers. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/117 "2017-10-10T23:27:18Z")
Well, we’re far enough in to this now that I think we can say with confidence that nothing is going to change. Weinstein is getting thrown under the bus but all the other scumbags in Hollywood are still being protected. Everyone’s coming forward with stories that aren’t about Weinstein but won’t name names. They just aren’t serious. Even if the victims are afraid to tell, which is understandable, no one else who knows about these guys is going to step up? Hollywood is permissive towards sexual predation. That’s just the way it is and it’s not changing anytime soon. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/118 "2017-10-10T23:35:02Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …an education on sexual harassment? No I don’t need that. You need to read the entire article, not just the fair-use-snippet I quoted. _Thats just a primer._ > > And how many are not? This was going on for fucking decades. Waiting staff talked about how he had a different woman with him practically every night. You’ve listed five women. How about the rest of them? I think you do. Or an education on not being condescending at least. Maybe they were willing and happy to go along? or is that wrong also? You know we were working on a film for use in Sexual harassment training. Some scenes were reshot, with identical dialogue. One had a fat, balding guy ask the receptionist out for lunch. The other version was a hunky young guy in a deliverymans shorts. 80% of woman said the scene with fat guy was sexual harassment. only 20% thought the cute guy was harassment. Exact same words. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/119 "2017-10-10T23:36:17Z")
> [@SpoilerVirgin](#): > > Dawn Dunning says that Harvey Weinstein told her that he had contracts for her to appear in his next three films, but that she could only sign them if she had a three-way with him. She refused and he told her that she would never make it in the business. He did not sign her and she eventually became a costume designer. > > Louisette Geiss says that he told her he would greenlight her script, but she had to watch him masturbate. She refused, and eventually left the entertainment industry. Where are their lawsuits? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2017, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/120 "2017-10-10T23:37:25Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > Why did he step down? Why did he issue the public statement he did? Why did the > board of TWC fire him? > > Still, keep on white-knighting an abuser. It’s a hobby I suppose. Maybe he is. But\* allegations\* doesnt make him so. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073.md?page=7)