# Harvey Weinstein accused of multiple cases of sexual harassment **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 5, 2017, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073 "2017-10-05T23:31:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/141 "2017-10-11T11:12:20Z")
To sum up: “The Left are scrambling to protect Harvey Weinstein!” \ “The comedy shows aren’t making jokes about him!” \ “Obama and the Clintons aren’t condemning him because he’s a big Democratic contributor!” \ “Goddammit! Why won’t you liberals be as unprincipled and hypocritical as we keep saying you are?” As for why no one is naming names on the other offenders: the answer is that the people involved are incredibly powerful and well-connected, and you need someone who is both well-placed to make the accusation credibly and willing to take the hit both to their career and their reputation (given that pretty much all women making sexual harassment accusations are immediately accused of being sluts). Gretchen Carlson broke the dam at FoxNews, Ashley Judd broke the dam with Weinstein, and I’m guessing that if the accusers of Weinstein are believed a few more Hollywood dams will break. Conversely I’m guessing that the other powerful, influential people in Hollywood likely to be in the firing line are currently engaged in various CYA exercises including rewriting history, making veiled threats against potential accusers and having long expensive conversations with their lawyers. They won’t all go down easy. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/142 "2017-10-11T11:58:36Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > I would push to the point where my friend became actively disloyal to his king. Or was cruel to animals or children ( or tortured anyone ): then they are scum. > I wouldn’t inform on them if they were dealing drugs, or smuggling guns, or had, long ago, committed a murder; for the sake of the friendship — whereas I might for a non-friend. I might drop them from my circle of acquaintances if the offence was heinous ( like that file-system inventor now in prison for murdering his wife ) This is an ethic I cannot endorse. It’s very fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/143 "2017-10-11T11:59:40Z")
> [@Evan\_Drake](#): > > I would push to the point where my friend became actively disloyal to his king. Or was cruel to animals or children ( or tortured anyone ): then they are scum. > I wouldn’t inform on them if they were dealing drugs, or smuggling guns, or had, long ago, committed a murder; for the sake of the friendship — whereas I might for a non-friend. I might drop them from my circle of acquaintances if the offence was heinous ( like that file-system inventor now in prison for murdering his wife ) This is an ethic I cannot endorse. It’s very fucked up. If this is what you mean by loyalty then I’d have to say that loyalty shouldn’t be valued. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/144 "2017-10-11T12:12:50Z")
I still really hope that more women (and men, too – Terry Crews told a pretty disgusting story about getting groped by a male executive) come forward and call these assholes out en masse. Let’s pull the bandaid off the entire frickin’ industry, and any other industries with similar systemic/cultural problems. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/145 "2017-10-11T12:46:54Z")
Details on Terry Crews’ story: > **[Terry Crews reveals that he was once sexually assaulted by a Hollywood executive](https://www.avclub.com/terry-crews-reveals-that-he-was-once-sexually-assaulted-1819336072)** > > Presumably empowered by the sight of decades’ worth of sexual harassment and assault allegations against Harvey Weinstein being dragged into the light, a number of people in the entertainment industry have begun opening up about their own experiences... ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 1:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/146 "2017-10-11T13:22:15Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > No, what’s terrifying is charging a machine gun nest. And just as wars can’t be won if soldiers aren’t willing to do terrifying things, social justice wars also can’t be won without overcoming that understandable fear. > > Apparently in Hollywood, 99.9% of them don’t have as much courage as the least courageous Army private. There have been times I would rather face down a machine gun than talk about some incidents. I stand by the statement that it is terrifying, especially when the offender has power and authority. I feel I am uniquely qualified to make this particular statement and comparison. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/147 "2017-10-11T13:50:01Z")
Not much to add except I just heard that recording of Sweinestein and the latina actress he was trying to harangue into his hotel room. What a loathsome shit stain. May he get every horrible punishment he’s got coming to him: humiliation, divorce, law suits, crippling financial penalties, prison time, sexual predator record… all of it. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/148 "2017-10-11T14:55:02Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > The victims have already been harmed, and the overwhelming likelihood is that they will suffer more harm if they speak up. And remember, they were chosen as victims because of their lack of power. How does it make sense to make the weakest in society responsible for changing the entire society? And you have the gall to call them cowards? > > Go risk your own reputation and career and future and ability to support yourself and your family for them and then come back and talk about courage. > > Sure, blame people who knew and had the power to stand up to Weinstein, but chose not to. Like his brother, for example. That’s a different case. That’s my point, whether or not you were the direct victim, you risk your career, AND you’re less credible because you only “heard” it happened in most cases. All the cases I’ve read, there were no witnesses, just Weinstein and his victim. So it’s understandable that the victims would be scared, but men who weren’t there are supposed to speak up? That’s insane. The only way this works is if victims speak up, and people rally around them. If they won’t name the perps, then there’s nothing anyone can do. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/149 "2017-10-11T15:00:28Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I still really hope that more women (and men, too – Terry Crews told a pretty disgusting story about getting groped by a male executive) come forward and call these assholes out en masse. Let’s pull the bandaid off the entire frickin’ industry, and any other industries with similar systemic/cultural problems. Yeah, but in Crews’ case and in alll the other non-Weinstein cases, the people are still doing what they do and it pretty much zero risk of getting busted. In the first four days or so, I was willing to agree that these stories were courageous. Now I’m losing patience. Nothing changes until the scumbags are outed. What we’re seeing now is the culture of sexual abuse by the powerful entrenched more than ever. If even the Weinstein story won’t get people to talk, then the remaining abusers have to know they are safer than ever. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/150 "2017-10-11T15:10:07Z")
I understand the frustration, but people need to step up and “name names” when they feel safe and strong enough to do so - the hope is always as people see others step forward, they will also feel brave enough to do so. Sadly, victim-blaming is still alive and well, and the personal cost can seem too high for some. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/151 "2017-10-11T15:47:39Z")
If African-Americans had never hit the street and risked the dogs and firehoses and even deadly retaliation later as individuals, where would we be today? At some point, women have to stand up for their rights. ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/152 "2017-10-11T15:54:13Z")
Hollywood male stars seizing the opportunity to show their outrage on social media should take care it doesn’t bite them in their asses. Just hours after Ben Affleck said he was “saddened and angered” by Weinstein’s sexual harassment of women Hilarie Burton, star of One Tree Hill, claimed [Affleck groped her when she was a host of MTV’s TRL](http://people.com/movies/hilarie-burton-claims-ben-affleck-groped-her-trl/). If the whole thing weren’t so sad it would be hilarious. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/153 "2017-10-11T16:10:17Z")
You see, now THAT’s what I’m talking about! Name names! If Ben Affleck is a turd, let it be known. Change can’t come any other way. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/154 "2017-10-11T16:11:46Z")
Oh wow! You didn’t tell me they had film! Affleck is looking pretty screwed right now. IT’s a shame. I liked the guy. But you can never really know with people. ---
**Author:** ![Poysyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Poysyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Poysyn)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/155 "2017-10-11T16:13:24Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If African-Americans had never hit the street and risked the dogs and firehoses and even deadly retaliation later as individuals, where would we be today? At some point, women have to stand up for their rights. And they are…it doesn’t happen all at once, and it’s not a fast process. Look at what is going on, lawsuits and media exposes on people that were once considered untouchable - it is happening, all around us. Hell, there are three class-action suits against the Canadian Armed Forces right now - that would have been unheard of only ten years ago. It’s happening. ---
**Author:** ![madsircool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madsircool/32/3432_2.png) [@madsircool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madsircool)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/156 "2017-10-11T16:13:43Z")
The Weinstein Board said they had no idea…no idea this sort of behavior was going on as they said it in this voice [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/SjbPi00k_ME/hqdefault.jpg "Casablanca gambling? I'm shocked!") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjbPi00k_ME) ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/157 "2017-10-11T16:20:04Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > If African-Americans had never hit the street and risked the dogs and firehoses and even deadly retaliation later as individuals, where would we be today? We’d probably have a President still haranguing black people for even the most benign forms of protest, oh wait… > [@](#): > > At some point, women have to stand up for their rights. Your support for sexual harassment victims by telling them to ignore any incipient PTSD and go take on their incredibly powerful harassers at the potential risk of losing their livelihood and being blackballed by the entire film and television industry is an inspiration to us all. But now I’m wondering how many Affleck-level offenders (who don’t have the same level of clout as a Weinstein) are going to be outed in the coming weeks. Fun times in Hollywood. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/158 "2017-10-11T16:27:55Z")
I fully understand your argument, but let’s be clear here: the victims do not face lynching, and even if their careers ended many of them would be just fine. There was no real risk for Paltrow or Jolie to out Weinstein years ago. And because they didn’t, he created a lot more victims. And because of their continued silence on other abusers, more victims are created every day in that industry. I do understand why they didn’t and why they still won’t. I can’t claim that my courage is greater than theirs. But I can point out that things never change until people put themselves out on that limb. And that change is not possible if victims stay silent. Bystanders cannot bring about this change themselves. You know what happens to me if I see sexual harassment by a supervisor and I report it, but the victim won’t corroborate? If it doesn’t start with the victims themselves, then we might as well just give up and accept that this is how things are and how they always will be. Sometimes things are hard. This is hard. It may not be fair that the victims are the ones that have to step up, but it’s the only way. They either do it and empower themselves, or they don’t and get victimized over and over. ---
**Author:** ![adaher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@adaher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/adaher)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/159 "2017-10-11T16:31:02Z")
And I’d note that while Affleck isn’t as powerful as Weinstein, he’s grown to be a pretty big deal. Not just as an actor, but a top level director and producer now as well. He matters, and taking him on does carry risks. Although I suspect Affleck isnt the monster Weinstein is and won’t retaliate against his accusers. He probably knows he did wrong and wishes it would just go away. But then again, I don’t know him, so we’ll find out. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2017, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073/160 "2017-10-11T16:37:57Z")
> [@adaher](#): > > I fully understand your argument, but let’s be clear here: the victims do not face lynching, and even if their careers ended many of them would be just fine. There was no real risk for Paltrow or Jolie to out Weinstein years ago. And because they didn’t, he created a lot more victims. And because of their continued silence on other abusers, more victims are created every day in that industry. > > I do understand why they didn’t and why they still won’t. I can’t claim that my courage is greater than theirs. But I can point out that things never change until people put themselves out on that limb. And that change is not possible if victims stay silent. Bystanders cannot bring about this change themselves. You know what happens to me if I see sexual harassment by a supervisor and I report it, but the victim won’t corroborate? If it doesn’t start with the victims themselves, then we might as well just give up and accept that this is how things are and how they always will be. > > Sometimes things are hard. This is hard. It may not be fair that the victims are the ones that have to step up, but it’s the only way. They either do it and empower themselves, or they don’t and get victimized over and over. I hope survivors come forward and tell their stories as well, but don’t think that you can know what kind of courage it requires. You’re falling into the trap of assuming you can reason out how these sorts of feelings can or should work. You can’t – no one who hasn’t experienced it can (I can’t either). By all means try to help make an environment in which people feel more comfortable telling the truth, but don’t try to make it a moral imperative that victims of abuse must take certain actions. The problems of abuse are due to abusers, not due to any action or inaction by abused people. I hope people come forward, but the only moral imperative in this situation is for abusers to stop abusing people, and those who cover for the abusers to stop doing that as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/harvey-weinstein-accused-of-multiple-cases-of-sexual-harassment/798073.md?page=9)