# Has a Division 2 school beat a Div. 1 in football? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [November 3, 2003, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-division-2-school-beat-a-div-1-in-football/211132 "2003-11-03T11:11:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![crazy\_grady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dbc845/32.png) [@crazy\_grady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazy_grady)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 11:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-division-2-school-beat-a-div-1-in-football/211132/1 "2003-11-03T11:11:39Z")
That’s the question, sports fans. Has a Division II team ever beat a Division I team? To those who don’t know, a Div. 2 team is a smaller school that a Div. 1 school puts on the schedule for an easy win. It is a less common practice now because of the BCS. The only one that I know of was Citidel beating Arkansas about 8 to 10 years ago. The coach was fired that Monday. College football heads chime in! ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 11:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-division-2-school-beat-a-div-1-in-football/211132/2 "2003-11-03T11:16:24Z")
Well back in the 1950s Hawaii (then Div. II) went to Nebraska and won. I’ll see if I can find a link. Hope that’s not too old for you. ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-division-2-school-beat-a-div-1-in-football/211132/3 "2003-11-03T11:25:54Z")
[Sep 17, 1955 Hawaii 6 - Nebraska 0](http://www.mcubed.net/ncaaf/series/hw/ne.txt). Hawaii didn’t join Div 1 until the 70s. ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 11:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-division-2-school-beat-a-div-1-in-football/211132/4 "2003-11-03T11:34:39Z")
Damn, now that I think about it that might not count. Div. I-AA is different from Div. II, right? I’ll have to go do research and come bcak to you. ---
**Author:** ![crazy\_grady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dbc845/32.png) [@crazy\_grady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crazy_grady)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-division-2-school-beat-a-div-1-in-football/211132/5 "2003-11-03T11:40:37Z")
I mean Division I-AA beating Division I-A. ---
**Author:** ![Fern\_Forest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/71c47a/32.png) [@Fern\_Forest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fern_Forest)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-division-2-school-beat-a-div-1-in-football/211132/6 "2003-11-03T11:58:29Z")
Heh, we weren’t even Div. II material yet. > [@](#): > > Historical Conference Affiliations: > 1921-1965 - Played a combination of High School, Service All Stars and College games > 1966 Started an all-collegiate schedule with mostly division 2 schools and > [@](#): > > 1937-1972 NCAA College Division (Small College) > 1973-1973 NCAA Division II > 1974-1977 NCAA Division I > 1978-20XX NCAA Division I-A Oh, Div. I-AA. Then I bet that it happens often enough. I was going to bring this up before I thought you were talking about Div. II but not to long ago UH was one of the worst teams in Div. I-A and we played Div. I-AA about once a year. I know we’ve dropped at least one to [Portland State (20 to 45) in 2000.](http://www.phys.utk.edu/sorensen/cfr/cfr/Output/2000/CF_2000_Team_Hawaii.html) ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-division-2-school-beat-a-div-1-in-football/211132/7 "2003-11-03T14:08:22Z")
I know this happens not that infrequently. I can’t find any list of lower division opponents beating division IA teams, but I did find, somewhat randomly: [Division II Angelo State](http://www.geocities.com/ramballman/greatest.html) beats New Mexico State, 20-14, September 1986. [Division IAA Cal State Northridge](http://www.csun.edu/~hfoao102/press_releases/fall97/hawaii.html) beats Boise State, 63-23, September 1997. [Division IAA Southeastern Missouri State](http://gosoutheast.ocsn.com/sports/m-footbl/sched/semo-m-footbl-sched.html) beats Middle Tennesee, 24-14, September 2002. [Division IAA Western Illinois](http://www.wiuathletics.com/release.php?id=176) beats Eastern Michigan, 34-12, September 2003. [Division IAA Florida Atlantic](http://www.usatoday.com/sports/scores103/103240/20030828NCAAFMIDDLETENN0nr.htm) beats Middle Tennessee, 20-19, August 2003. ---
**Author:** ![zut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zut/32/2875_2.png) [@zut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zut)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-division-2-school-beat-a-div-1-in-football/211132/8 "2003-11-03T14:31:16Z")
Oh, I should add: Seeing a division IAA team beat a division IA team should not really come as a surprise. For the most part, the IA teams that are willing to schedule IAA teams are the weaker teams in IA; that these teams can be beaten by the better IAA teams is no surprise. For one example, consider how well Marshall has done since (and, indeed, immediately after) moving up from IAA to IA. For another example, take a look at [this example of IA/IAA power rankings](http://www.cae.wisc.edu/~dwilson/rsfc/rate/wrathell.txt) (scroll to the bottom). Out of the 240 IA/IAA teams, the top four IAA rank in the top 100 overall…ahead of such IA teams as Middle Tennessee, Eastern Michigan, and New Mexico State. If you take such power rankings without the requisite grain of salt, you’d predict that the best IAA teams stand a pretty good chance against some teams in premier IA conferences (Indiana, for example, or Vandy, Duke, or Rice), while the worst IA teams (Army, NE Louisiana) are similar to middle-of-the-pack IAA teams. ---
**Author:** ![MS\_T](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d78d45/32.png) [@MS\_T](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MS_T)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-division-2-school-beat-a-div-1-in-football/211132/9 "2019-10-15T02:47:04Z")
On Oct 12, 2019, Division 2 Missouri S&T Miners beat Division 1 Texas Southern 23-20 in Houston. The Miners lead most of the game. The Houston Chronicle in a two paragraph article mislabeled the Miners as Missouri A&T, but as Division 2. The school of 8000, is predominantly an Engineering school and known for their scholastics. Way to go boys. - Fellow alum from 1981 ---
**Author:** ![HubZilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ccd318/32.png) [@HubZilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HubZilla)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-division-2-school-beat-a-div-1-in-football/211132/10 "2019-10-15T03:23:13Z")
I was reading this thinking “How could they not mention 2007 Appalachian State beating #5 Michigan” Then I realized it’s a 16-year-old zombie and the OP asked for DII vs DI. Other games of note DI-AA (FCS) beating ranked DI-A (FBS) teams 2010 James Madison over #13 Virginia Tech 2013 Eastern Washington over #25 Oregon State 2016 North Dakota State over #13 Iowa Most of the above were good DI-AA playoff teams, so they weren’t monumental upsets, especially N Dakota State, who regularly beats FBS teams on the way to FCS titles. In those 16 years has a D2 beating a D1? One notable game is 2017 Howard over UNLV. UNLV is a historically bad FBS team who somehow was a 45-point favorite. I’m guessing Howard must’ve been a _de facto_ D-II team for that spread? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 10:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-division-2-school-beat-a-div-1-in-football/211132/11 "2019-10-15T10:45:29Z")
[Moderating] At the time this thread was started, we didn’t have a Game Room forum, and so Cafe Society probably was the best fit for it. Now, though, we do have a Game Room, so let’s move it over to there. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-division-2-school-beat-a-div-1-in-football/211132/12 "2019-10-15T12:39:36Z")
> [@HubZilla](#): > > In those 16 years has a D2 beating a D1? None for FBS schools. It’s not really possible anymore - the NCAA doesn’t allow FBS wins over D-II to ‘count’ so they don’t get scheduled anymore. But as above, FCS schools still schedule against D-II and some do lose with some frequency. ETA: also, only one FBS win over an FCS school ‘counts’ towards bowl eligibility (and even there, a qualifying 6-6 team with no FCS opponents will win a tie-break), so there are some of these but there tend not to be too many. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2019, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-division-2-school-beat-a-div-1-in-football/211132/13 "2019-10-15T13:38:37Z")
[**Check these out! 🙂**](https://herosports.com/news/fcs-football-ten-all-time-biggest-wins-power-five-programs-north-dakota-state-james-madison) ---
**Author:** ![That\_Don\_Guy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/that_don_guy/32/538_2.png) [@That\_Don\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/That_Don_Guy)\ **Post date:** [October 18, 2019, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-division-2-school-beat-a-div-1-in-football/211132/14 "2019-10-18T23:07:34Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > ETA: also, only one FBS win over an FCS school ‘counts’ towards bowl eligibility (and even there, a qualifying 6-6 team with no FCS opponents will win a tie-break), so there are some of these but there tend not to be too many. First, the FCS team has to have given out at least 113.4 full scholarship equivalents over the previous and current season combined in order for the FBS school to count it towards bowl eligibility. Only two conferences - the Ivy League, and the NEC - have restrictions on scholarships that might have this come into play, and no Ivy school plays any FBS teams. Second, a 6-6 team with a counted FCS win can be selected to a bowl ahead of one with all FBS wins; there is no “tiebreak” among bowl eligible teams. You may be thinking of what happens when there are more bowl berths than eligible teams, in which case, a 6-7 team has to be chosen ahead of a 5-7 team. (Hawaii and Army both play 13 games, although Army plays two FCS teams, so the only way it can have a 6-7 “counted” record is if it loses one or both of its FCS games.) Even then, a 6-7 team is behind any 5-6 team with an “uncounted” FCS win. ---
**Author:** ![dzeiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/46a35a/32.png) [@dzeiger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dzeiger)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2019, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-division-2-school-beat-a-div-1-in-football/211132/15 "2019-10-19T01:32:24Z")
Division 3 school Centre College has a victory over Division 1 Harvard. Granted, that was in 1921, but Harvard was considerably more impressive then. ---
**Author:** ![WreckingCrew](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wreckingcrew/32/4080_2.png) [@WreckingCrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WreckingCrew)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-division-2-school-beat-a-div-1-in-football/211132/16 "2019-10-21T16:50:58Z")
My D 3 school, the College of Wooster, has bumped off Ohio State twice - including a 64-0 shellacking in 1890. Pretty good for a small college against an Ohio state university. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-division-2-school-beat-a-div-1-in-football/211132/17 "2019-10-21T17:06:00Z")
> [@HubZilla](#): > > I was reading this thinking “How could they not mention 2007 Appalachian State beating #5 Michigan” > > Then I realized it’s a 16-year-old zombie and the OP asked for DII vs DI. There is no app yet to prevent zombies, but there was an App to defeat Michigan… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Hermitian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hermitian/32/470_2.png) [@Hermitian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hermitian)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-division-2-school-beat-a-div-1-in-football/211132/18 "2019-10-21T20:17:46Z")
> [@HubZilla](#): > > I was reading this thinking “How could they not mention 2007 Appalachian State beating #5 Michigan” I barely follow college football and that was my first thought as well. ---
**Author:** ![Hoopy\_Frood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hoopy_frood/32/8452_2.png) [@Hoopy\_Frood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hoopy_Frood)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2019, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-division-2-school-beat-a-div-1-in-football/211132/19 "2019-10-21T20:27:57Z")
> [@WreckingCrew](#): > > an Ohio state university. I see what you did there. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2019, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-division-2-school-beat-a-div-1-in-football/211132/20 "2019-10-22T03:04:39Z")
> [@Hoopy\_Frood](#): > > I see what you did there. That was an attempt to avoid trademark infringement.