# Has a false accusation of racism ever caused significant harm to anyone in the US? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 26, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-false-accusation-of-racism-ever-caused-significant-harm-to-anyone-in-the-us/684635 "2014-03-26T21:17:47Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-false-accusation-of-racism-ever-caused-significant-harm-to-anyone-in-the-us/684635/61 "2014-03-27T16:06:20Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > He discusses two things. One is consistent incidents of calling him a racist. The other is a specific incident. > Yes, constantly being called a racist is harmless. You seem rather determined to put words in my mouth. I’ve admitted that it’s harmful, though I’ve said it falls short of significant harm as described in the article. If he has constantly and consistently been called a racist for years and years, then that might qualify as significant harm. If you want to put forward a case like that, I’m all ears. The link you provided does not make such a case. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-false-accusation-of-racism-ever-caused-significant-harm-to-anyone-in-the-us/684635/62 "2014-03-27T16:07:55Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But when you talk about a university student who spent thousands of dollars hiring a lawyer, was formally charged by the university for violation of its code of conduct, and never formally exonerated by the university after months of the charge hanging over his head, I believe it’s fair to call that “significant harm.” > > When you talk about a woman who was forced to resign by her government – who then tripped over themselves offering her job back when the full context of her remarks became clear – that, I believe, is fair to call “significant harm.” Even though she was offered her job back, she did not take it, because (I suspect) she knew that her actions going forward would remain under a microscope and it’s always more difficult to get the true story out. You seem to be agreeing with my post #41, right? ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-false-accusation-of-racism-ever-caused-significant-harm-to-anyone-in-the-us/684635/63 "2014-03-27T16:14:14Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If he has constantly and consistently been called a racist for years and years, then that might qualify as significant harm. I guess if you’re constantly and consistently called a racist for a few months that’s not harmful. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-false-accusation-of-racism-ever-caused-significant-harm-to-anyone-in-the-us/684635/64 "2014-03-27T16:35:08Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I guess if you’re constantly and consistently called a racist for a few months that’s not harmful. LOL how you consistently ignore what I write (especially the word “significant”). ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-false-accusation-of-racism-ever-caused-significant-harm-to-anyone-in-the-us/684635/65 "2014-03-27T16:35:43Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > LOL how you consistently ignore what I right (especially the word “significant”). I guess if you’re constantly and consistently called a racist for a few months that’s not significantly harmful. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-false-accusation-of-racism-ever-caused-significant-harm-to-anyone-in-the-us/684635/66 "2014-03-27T16:41:54Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > FTR, “niggard” is a much older word in English than “nigger” and is etymologically unrelated. Furthermore, it does not even evoke any invidious black stereotype – rather, to be called “niggardly” would **contradict** application of the “nigger rich” stereotype (spending money carelessly on lavish display). I’m aware of that, but under given it produces an automatic mental association with it’s phonetic cousin nigger, it is probably a word I would avoid using on the record in a political discussion. I am also sure that Howard regretted using it as soon as he saw the reaction it induced in his audience. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-false-accusation-of-racism-ever-caused-significant-harm-to-anyone-in-the-us/684635/67 "2014-03-27T16:48:59Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > I guess if you’re constantly and consistently called a racist for a few months that’s not significantly harmful. I guess not. ---
**Author:** ![Terr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Terr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terr)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-false-accusation-of-racism-ever-caused-significant-harm-to-anyone-in-the-us/684635/68 "2014-03-27T16:59:33Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I guess not. Would be interesting to hear from you after you have been subjected to months of being called a racist whether it was “significant” or not. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-false-accusation-of-racism-ever-caused-significant-harm-to-anyone-in-the-us/684635/69 "2014-03-27T17:02:01Z")
> [@Terr](#): > > Would be interesting to hear from you after you have been subjected to months of being called a racist whether it was “significant” or not. It would be interesting indeed. I don’t think I’m a racist (and neither do most racists), but it’s possible I hold some sort of bias that I am unaware of. If someone had cause to point this out to me, I’d be very interested in having a conversation with them. I might even learn something! If it was just jerks calling me names, then it’s something I’ve gone through before, and am much better equipped to handle now. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-false-accusation-of-racism-ever-caused-significant-harm-to-anyone-in-the-us/684635/70 "2014-03-27T17:58:27Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > The anti-abortion movement has totally smeared Palnned Parenthood founder [Margaret Sander](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Sanger#Race) as a racist. Which is odd, as she championed birth control, not abortion. She was a firm believer in Eugenics. Despite the protestations of the board’s so-called race realists such people are racists. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-false-accusation-of-racism-ever-caused-significant-harm-to-anyone-in-the-us/684635/71 "2014-03-27T18:00:10Z")
I’m also unclear how Mark Furhman was falsely accused of racism. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-false-accusation-of-racism-ever-caused-significant-harm-to-anyone-in-the-us/684635/72 "2014-03-27T18:03:13Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > She was a firm believer in Eugenics. > > Despite the protestations of the board’s so-called race realists such people are racists. Yeah, having read only that Wikipedia section, I find it impossible to claim that Sanger was “falsely” accused of racism. She seems to have been clearly a racist. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-false-accusation-of-racism-ever-caused-significant-harm-to-anyone-in-the-us/684635/73 "2014-03-27T19:48:06Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You seem to be agreeing with my post #41, right? There are two parts to post #41. I agree with the part in which you cautiously acknowledge that Sherrod and Jacobowitz represent legitimate examples of severe consequences flowing from a false accusation of racism. I don’t think the thread has adduced any evidence about how often, or in what percentage, false accusations are made as opposed to accurate ones, and no one has yet agreed on any standard for “significant harm,” so I don’t agree with your second sentence. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-false-accusation-of-racism-ever-caused-significant-harm-to-anyone-in-the-us/684635/74 "2014-03-27T20:07:16Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I don’t think I’m a racist (and neither do most racists), but it’s possible I hold some sort of bias that I am unaware of. In that case we should probably just label you a racist, to be on the safe side. No real harm could come of it. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-false-accusation-of-racism-ever-caused-significant-harm-to-anyone-in-the-us/684635/75 "2014-03-27T20:08:46Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > In that case we should probably just label you a racist, to be on the safe side. > > No real harm could come of it. 🆒 Absolutely. Being labeled a racist by a random internet person causes me no harm whatsoever 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-false-accusation-of-racism-ever-caused-significant-harm-to-anyone-in-the-us/684635/76 "2014-03-27T20:17:26Z")
How about Howard Cosell? His “little monkey” comment, which he had used to describe both white and black athletes, drew quite a bit of criticism. He left the booth after the 1983 season when he refused to apologize for using the phrase. AFAIK, there was no other evidence that he was actually a racist. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-false-accusation-of-racism-ever-caused-significant-harm-to-anyone-in-the-us/684635/77 "2014-03-27T20:25:23Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > How about Howard Cosell? His “little monkey” comment, which he had used to describe both white and black athletes, drew quite a bit of criticism. He left the booth after the 1983 season when he refused to apologize for using the phrase. AFAIK, there was no other evidence that he was actually a racist. Considering his long career afterwards, I don’t think he suffered significantly. Furthermore, he _should_ have been criticized for using that phrase, even if he didn’t mean it in a racist manner, due to the history of words like “monkey” and “ape” as racial slurs. ---
**Author:** ![Belowjob2.0](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Belowjob2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Belowjob2.0)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-false-accusation-of-racism-ever-caused-significant-harm-to-anyone-in-the-us/684635/78 "2014-03-27T20:25:57Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’m also unclear how Mark Furhman was falsely accused of racism. Furhman actually admitted (boasted) of taking racist actions in his job as a cop. Margaret Sanger (not Sander) was similarly unashamedly racist, as were many white feminists of that era. As you can see, many of the responses on this thread are citing _true_ accusations of racism that caused harm. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-false-accusation-of-racism-ever-caused-significant-harm-to-anyone-in-the-us/684635/79 "2014-03-27T20:29:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > But when you talk about a university student who spent thousands of dollars hiring a lawyer, was formally charged by the university for violation of its code of conduct, and never formally exonerated by the university after months of the charge hanging over his head, I believe it’s fair to call that “significant harm.” I just disagree, partially because we seem to differ on some of the events that transpired. For instance, just there you wrote that Mr. Jacobowitz “spent thousands of dollars hiring a lawyer”, but that may not be an accurate statement. Do you have a cite for the assertion? I found this: [ > [@](#): > > Penn admitted no wrongdoing and paid Jacobowitz nothing in settling the $50,000 lawsuit, said the university’s general counsel, Shelley Green. > > **The school did pay Jacobowitz’s attorney, Edward Rubenstone, ``under $10,000’’ to cover part of his expenses, she said**. Rubenstone could not be reached for comment last night. ]([Inquirer.com archives](http://articles.philly.com/1997-09-09/news/25549674_1_black-sorority-members-eden-jacobowitz-racial-harassment-charges)) I don’t know that Mr. Jacobowitz paid his lawyer anything at all, but I do know that the school paid to cover at least some of his fees. Are you certain that there were thousands of dollars in fees that were not paid by the school and that were paid for by Mr. Jacobowitz, as your statement asserts? Also, to the matter of significant harm, I don’t have a set definition for the term nor does the legal system except as it relates to children. But I don’t think that going through the administrative process is any more harmful than the process for a traffic ticket would be, necessarily. If you can show otherwise, please do. It isn’t as though Mr. Jacobowitz was arrested, detained, imprisoned or otherwise prevented from going about his normal daily activities. And after the charges were dropped, it’s not as though he just dropped out of Penn or out of college altogether. In fact, he seems to have been quite busy: > [@](#): > > Even so, Jacobowitz’s Penn experience was not eclipsed by the water buffalo incident. The following year, he joined the Penny Loafers, Undergraduate Assembly, University Council and the First Amendment task force, moving on but bearing in mind lessons he learned from “a bad experience, but a learning experience.” > > After initial proceedings, he received a plea bargain, which he considered “a blow.” He rejected it, outwardly telling the University to “shove it up your ass,” but secretly returning to his dorm to cry in solitude. > > For Jacobowitz, the experience with judicial proceedings was a precursor to his decision to pursue a law degree at Fordham University after his December 1995 graduation and a brief public relations career. > > Passing the bar, he “bounced around trying new things” until he recently settled into a job in human resources at the New York Palace Hotel in Manhattan. IIRC he even ran for Student Council President, narrowly losing the vote. Did it suck to have to go through what he went through? Prolly. Would I want to go through it myself? Nope. But there’s lots of stuff that I wouldn’t want to have happen to me because it would be unpleasant but that doesn’t rise to a level any reasonable person would call “significant harm”, and I have yet to see anything in Mr. Jacobowitz case that seems to rise that level. FWIW, I agree completely with the characterizations of the other two situations you mentioned. ---
**Author:** ![Nars\_Glinley](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nars_glinley/32/8177_2.png) [@Nars\_Glinley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nars_Glinley)\ **Post date:** [March 27, 2014, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-false-accusation-of-racism-ever-caused-significant-harm-to-anyone-in-the-us/684635/80 "2014-03-27T20:31:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Considering his long career afterwards, I don’t think he suffered significantly. Furthermore, he _should_ have been criticized for using that phrase, even if he didn’t mean it in a racist manner, due to the history of words like “monkey” and “ape” as racial slurs. But if he wasn’t a racist and just said something that could have been interpreted that way, wouldn’t that qualify as a “false accusation of racism”? IIRC, it pretty much ended his career on MNF, so I’d call that a significant harm. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-false-accusation-of-racism-ever-caused-significant-harm-to-anyone-in-the-us/684635.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-false-accusation-of-racism-ever-caused-significant-harm-to-anyone-in-the-us/684635.md?page=5)