# Has a religious leader ever renounced / recanted his own teachings? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 9, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-religious-leader-ever-renounced-recanted-his-own-teachings/655246 "2013-04-09T18:01:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-religious-leader-ever-renounced-recanted-his-own-teachings/655246/1 "2013-04-09T18:01:39Z")
Has a religious / cult leader ever decided to just “come clean” and admit that he’s a fraud? Say someone has started a cult, has some devoted followers who hang on his every word. At some point he decides that it is all a bunch of hooey, and holds a public meeting, telling everybody that he just made the whole thing up. Has anything like that ever happened? (Actually, that would make a good movie. Then again, perhaps not…) ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-religious-leader-ever-renounced-recanted-his-own-teachings/655246/2 "2013-04-09T18:15:02Z")
[Marjoe.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marjoe) (Yes, it did make a good movie.) ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-religious-leader-ever-renounced-recanted-his-own-teachings/655246/3 "2013-04-09T18:19:04Z")
Didn’t the founder of the Holy order of MANS convert to Greek Orthodoxy? ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-religious-leader-ever-renounced-recanted-his-own-teachings/655246/4 "2013-04-09T18:25:40Z")
> [@cjepson](#): > > [Marjoe.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marjoe) (Yes, it did make a good movie.) By golly, how could I have forgotten that one? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Smapti](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/smapti/32/17938_2.png) [@Smapti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smapti)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-religious-leader-ever-renounced-recanted-his-own-teachings/655246/5 "2013-04-09T18:35:26Z")
[Warith Dean Muhammed](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warith_Deen_Mohammed) son of Elijah Muhammed, inherited the leadership of the Nation of Islam and then disbanded it and established a mainstream Muslim movement. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-religious-leader-ever-renounced-recanted-his-own-teachings/655246/6 "2013-04-09T18:41:04Z")
[Krishnamurti](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiddu_Krishnamurti). Although he didn’t choose to become a religious leader in the first place, but was designed as a sort of prophet/messiah by Theosophists when he was only a child. As an adult he rejected both his supposed status and the teachings of the sect. ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-religious-leader-ever-renounced-recanted-his-own-teachings/655246/7 "2013-04-09T19:14:33Z")
Jerry DeWitt is a former Pentecostal minister that has “come out” as an atheist. I tried to find you a link, but his _Recovering from Religion_ website seems to be having issues at present. ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-religious-leader-ever-renounced-recanted-his-own-teachings/655246/8 "2013-04-09T19:16:45Z")
[Shabbetai Tzvi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbatai_Zevi) claimed to be the Jewish Messiah, and when given the choice of death or conversion to Islam, chose conversion. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-religious-leader-ever-renounced-recanted-his-own-teachings/655246/9 "2013-04-09T19:17:41Z")
Also, [Kumaré](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumar%C3%A9), the invention of a filmmaker named Vikram Gandhi. He went to Arizona pretending to be a guru. The film is on my Netflix queue. ---
**Author:** ![skdo23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@skdo23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/skdo23)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2013, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-religious-leader-ever-renounced-recanted-his-own-teachings/655246/10 "2013-04-09T23:48:37Z")
> [@Kevbo](#): > > Jerry DeWitt is a former Pentecostal minister that has “come out” as an atheist. I tried to find you a link, but his _Recovering from Religion_ website seems to be having issues at present. [Dan Barker](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Barker), also. Love that he still gets royalties from religious musicals and songs that he wrote back in his holy rollin days. ---
**Author:** ![Razncain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9d8465/32.png) [@Razncain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Razncain)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2013, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-religious-leader-ever-renounced-recanted-his-own-teachings/655246/11 "2013-04-10T01:30:46Z")
[The Clergy Project](http://www.clergyproject.org/) ---
**Author:** ![gytalf2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ac91a4/32.png) [@gytalf2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gytalf2000)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2013, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-religious-leader-ever-renounced-recanted-his-own-teachings/655246/12 "2013-04-10T14:54:45Z")
> [@carnivorousplant](#): > > [Shabbetai Tzvi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbatai_Zevi) claimed to be the Jewish Messiah, and when given the choice of death or conversion to Islam, chose conversion. Oh, that’s hilarious! Some Messiah… ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2013, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-religious-leader-ever-renounced-recanted-his-own-teachings/655246/13 "2013-04-10T14:57:57Z")
Not quite the same, but… Diogenes the Cynic, when he was on his death bed, reportedly told his disciples to bury him face down. They agreed. He asked: “Don’t you want to know why?” They asked. He answered: “Because this way, when you morons misinterpret everything I’ve ever taught and I turn over in my grave, I’ll be facing the right way!” Which, of course, reminds me of all the times in the Gospels that Jesus rebuked his inner circle of disciples because they didn’t understand his parables. ---
**Author:** ![colonial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/34f0e0/32.png) [@colonial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/colonial)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2013, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-religious-leader-ever-renounced-recanted-his-own-teachings/655246/14 "2013-04-10T23:05:54Z")
Tudor era theologian and prelate Thomas Cranmer ratted and then rEratted, so to speak. After acting as Henry VIII’s lead man in the divorce case against Catherine of Aragon he eventually rewarded by appointment as Archbishop of Canterbury. H8 remained a virtually doctrinal Catholic, but after he died and was succeeded by his son Edward VI Cranmer led the way toward increasing Protestantism. All that worked fine until E6 died, and was succeeded by Catherine of Aragon’s daughter Mary. The new English monarch had been degraded to the status of bastard by the downfall of her mother, which Cranmer had engineered, and consequently wasted as little time as possible in removing Cranmer from office and trying him as a heretic. Cranmer’s inquisitors may have held out some hope that his life might be spared if he recanted; for whatever reason Cranmer did wholly recant his earlier anti-Roman Catholic actions and beliefs, in writing, signature appended. Unfortunately for Cranmer he was not rewareded with any mercy, but was sentenced to burn at the stake. Cranmer agreed to preach a church sermon confirming his recantation in the hour or so before his sentence was carried out. However, a few paragraphs into the sermon Cranmer recanted his recantation with these words: (link: [Thomas Cranmer’s Final Speech](http://www.luminarium.org/renlit/cranmerspeech.htm)) “And now I come to the great thing that troubleth my conscience more than any other thing that ever I said or did in my life: and that is, the setting abroad of writings contrary to the truth. Which here now I renounce and refuse, as things written with my hand contrary to the truth which I thought in my heart, and writ for fear of death, and to save my life, if it might be: and that is, all such bills, which I have written or signed with mine own hand, since my degradation; wherein I have written many things untrue. _ **And forasmuch as my hand offended in writing contrary to my heart, therefore my hand shall first be punished. For if I may come to the fire, it shall be first burned. And as for the Pope, I refuse him, as Christ’s enemy and antichrist, with all his false doctrine** _.” At that point Cranmer was physically removed from the pulpit and hauled off to the stake. His was a good as his word regarding his right hand, the one he signed his original recantation with: after the fire was lit he actually did put his right hand into the flames and did keep it there until his entire body was engulfed: (link: [Primary Source Eyewitness](http://englishhistory.net/tudor/pcranmer.html)): “Fire being now put to him, he stretched out his right hand, and thrust it into the flame, and held it there a good space, before the fire came to any other part of his body; where his hand was seen of every man sensibly burning, crying with a loud voice, ‘This hand hath offended.’ As soon as the fire got up, he was very soon dead, never stirring or crying all the while.” ---
**Author:** ![carnivorousplant](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnivorousplant/32/3563_2.png) [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2013, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-religious-leader-ever-renounced-recanted-his-own-teachings/655246/15 "2013-04-10T23:22:04Z")
> [@colonial](#): > > “Fire being now put to him, he stretched out his right hand, and thrust it into the flame, and held it there a good space, before the fire came to any other part of his body; where his hand was seen of every man sensibly burning, crying with a loud voice, ‘This hand hath offended.’ As soon as the fire got up, he was very soon dead, never stirring or crying all the while.” Jesus Christ. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2013, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-religious-leader-ever-renounced-recanted-his-own-teachings/655246/16 "2013-04-10T23:49:27Z")
Fictional, but [everything in this book may be wrong.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illusions_%28Bach_novel%29) ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-religious-leader-ever-renounced-recanted-his-own-teachings/655246/17 "2013-04-11T00:25:45Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#): > > Not quite the same, but… Diogenes the Cynic, when he was on his death bed, reportedly told his disciples to bury him face down. They agreed. He asked: “Don’t you want to know why?” They asked. He answered: “Because this way, when you morons misinterpret everything I’ve ever taught and I turn over in my grave, I’ll be facing the right way!” No he didn’t. ---
**Author:** ![johnpost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f17d59/32.png) [@johnpost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/johnpost)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-religious-leader-ever-renounced-recanted-his-own-teachings/655246/18 "2013-04-11T00:35:36Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > No he didn’t. good one! ---
**Author:** ![svd678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/53a042/32.png) [@svd678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/svd678)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 4:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-religious-leader-ever-renounced-recanted-his-own-teachings/655246/19 "2013-04-11T04:27:35Z")
Robert Browne wrote “A Treatise of Reformation Without Tarrying for Anie”, a foundation of the Separatist movement. Separating from the British Church, and giving up hope of reforming it. The Separatists later were known as Independants, or Congregationalists. The Pilgrims were Separatists, not Puritans. He later recanted and made his peace with the Anglican Church, so that the Separatists resented being called Brownists. Some of his ideas, like a church being controlled by its members and not the government, still influence some of us. I imagine there have been founders, especially of cults, who gave up their cause and maybe rejected it, altho I can’t think of any. ---
**Author:** ![Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/prof.pepperwinkle/32/13627_2.png) [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2013, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-religious-leader-ever-renounced-recanted-his-own-teachings/655246/20 "2013-04-11T12:37:16Z")
> [@Joey\_P](#): > > No he didn’t. Okay, he didn’t. But it was in character. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-religious-leader-ever-renounced-recanted-his-own-teachings/655246.md?page=2)