# Has a university ever become defunct? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 18, 2003, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-university-ever-become-defunct/162202 "2003-03-18T04:13:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-university-ever-become-defunct/162202/1 "2003-03-18T04:13:30Z")
Today I saw a story about Morris Brown College, a historically black college near Atlanta, that was in danger of shutting down permanently due to a lack of funds and competition from better known HBC’s in Georgia. I have never heard of a four year college or university actually going out of business before. Since in general enrollment is constantly growing, most colleges and universities seem to expand at a rapid rate, and completely new campuses appear in most states every once in a while as well. Does anyone you know of have a defunct alma mater? And what could a former college campus be used for? I would think if a college administration did go bankrupt, another administration would grab up the site and continue with a college. Does someone have an abandoned college campus in their area? ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-university-ever-become-defunct/162202/2 "2003-03-18T04:35:57Z")
Here’s a long list of American colleges that have closed: [http://www.closedcollege.biz/list.html](http://www.closedcollege.biz/list.html) ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-university-ever-become-defunct/162202/3 "2003-03-18T04:53:50Z")
I noticed one on there, Washington Junior College, Takoma Park, Md., the campus of which is now Columbia Union College, a religious institution (Seventh Day Adventist). I used to live around the corner from them. ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-university-ever-become-defunct/162202/4 "2003-03-18T05:01:49Z")
As indicated by that list, it happens often enough that procedures get worked out for graduates to obtain transcripts, and so on. As for what a former campus can be used for, one I’m familiar with on that list is Alliance College in Cambridge Springs, PA. The State purchased it and converted it into a minimum security women’s prison. ---
**Author:** ![peepthis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9d8465/32.png) [@peepthis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peepthis)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-university-ever-become-defunct/162202/5 "2003-03-18T05:17:22Z")
From that list it looks like lots of them went under in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Now my impression was that that was a time when enrollments were greatly expanding, as Baby Boomers’ younger siblings were getting to college age, and more and more women were attending universities. Is there something that I’m missing here that would explain the glut of erstwhile institutions going under at that time? ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 5:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-university-ever-become-defunct/162202/6 "2003-03-18T05:26:43Z")
I seem to remember a school called U.S. International that went out of business. I remember them because they played in the highest scoring college basketball game of all-time (perhaps since eclipsed), losing 181-150 to Loyola Marymount. ---
**Author:** ![Horatio\_Hellpop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e5b9ba/32.png) [@Horatio\_Hellpop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatio_Hellpop)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-university-ever-become-defunct/162202/7 "2003-03-18T06:15:50Z")
[QOUTE]\*\*Is there something that I’m missing here that would explain the glut of erstwhile institutions going under at that time? \*\* [/QUOTE] The vast majority of these institutions were (possibly unaccredited) Bible colleges, which may have been out of vogue right then. ---
**Author:** ![lindsay.reid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/82dd89/32.png) [@lindsay.reid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lindsay.reid)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-university-ever-become-defunct/162202/8 "2003-03-18T06:22:33Z")
Rochdale, the experimental university in Toronto: Created as an experiment in learning and living, Rochdale was Canada’s counter-culture equivalent of San Francisco’s Haight-Ashbury. It opened in 1968 as a self-governing free university that attracted artists, hippies, acidheads, draft dodgers and drug dealers. It was closed in 1975 after years of notoriety. ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-university-ever-become-defunct/162202/9 "2003-03-18T10:35:46Z")
Rochdale College was part of the University of Toronto though, wasn’t it, not a completely-separate institution? Incidentally, after it was closed, the building was converted into the Senator David A. Croll Apartments, an _old-folks’ home_. Talk about revenge… The CBC had a documentary about it called ‘Dream Tower’. ---
**Author:** ![Derleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Derleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Derleth)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-university-ever-become-defunct/162202/10 "2003-03-18T12:15:46Z")
What, exactly, is a bible college? Another name for a Christian school, like Notre Dame and Creighton are? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Slant](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c57346/32.png) [@Mr.Slant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Slant)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-university-ever-become-defunct/162202/11 "2003-03-18T12:43:08Z")
I believe bible college would tend to indicate christian school, although it also tends to imply Protestant… Baptist springs to mind as a denomination that would seem happy starting a “bible college”, although I’m sure other denominations would too. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-university-ever-become-defunct/162202/12 "2003-03-18T13:15:12Z")
Thing is, by the time of the 1970s the “younger siblings of the Baby Boom” were already a smaller population pool than their older siblings. AND, they were likelier to be willing to go further afield than their hometown small college, if only to get away to where the action was. Similarly, HBC’s lost some of the best of their pool of talent as the mainstream unis desegregated. Also, the 1970s was the time when the BEOG, today’s Pell Grant, came into being. Now _everyone_ who could show need could get $$$ for college. This had a combination of effects on some institutions that were operating marginally: (a) Students that were attending marginal institutions now could afford to attend somewhere with more reputation and stability; this drew away from the top of the pool for the marginals (b) The more “reputed and stable” schools had the werewithal to step up enrollments and facilities to attract the students; © As the BEOG is also eligible for Trade/Technical Schooling, "Technical Colleges"or “Business Institutes” also proliferated, drawing away from the pool of applicants those not really interested in a Lib-arts 4-year curriculum (d) The Federal $$$ was, and is, contingent on accreditation. **Derleth** “Bible College” is a specific kind of institution designed for preparation of Protestant Lay Ministry open to the general public who want higher education in Faith matters; as opposed to a seminary, which is specifically for training for ordination in a particular denomination; or to an academic-based multidisciplinary institution like the Christian universities. Their rise is strongly associated with “Classic” Fundamentalism. Very often, a “Bible College” will be home-grown from even as little as one single congregation, and being considered a part of the church’s internal ministry operations may go through its entire existence w/o even trying to gain accreditation. OTOH numerous BC’s do get regular academic accreditation from their regional agency, plus there is even a US Dept. of Ed.-recognized accrediting body specifically for BC’s From one of their [homepages](http://www.sebc.edu/about/biblecollege.asp): > [@](#): > > The major difference between a Christian liberal arts college and a Bible college is that students in Bible colleges graduate with a full major in Bible. Students at Christian liberal arts colleges may take a few required Bible courses, but major in areas like business, engineering, and communications. > […] > Bible Colleges tend to be smaller, and more focused on ministry. […]Some minister vocationally (like pastors and missionaries), while others minister in the workplace (in business and other professions) > […]By basing our degree programs on our core major of Bible and Theology, our graduates are able to study the Bible for themselves and communicate the Christian worldview in the pulpit or the workplace. > […] > the Bible Institute movement [started] among northern evangelicals in the 1880s. The northern movement grew out of a desire to provide systematic training for laypersons to serve as missionaries, evangelists, and Sunday school teachers. Albert B. Simpson (1843-1921) is usually credited with founding the earliest Bible school in 1882, the New York Missionary Training College for Home and Foreign Missions. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-university-ever-become-defunct/162202/13 "2003-03-18T13:30:35Z")
Notice also that on the list there are many “Teacher’s Colleges” – these would have fallen to consolidation of schoolteacher-training programs at the campuses of (mostly) the State Universities, specially as Master’s and higher degrees became a required part of the teaching career, and as the population became more urban and mobile. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-university-ever-become-defunct/162202/14 "2003-03-18T13:51:00Z")
In fact, the entire idea of teacher’s colleges slowly became irrelevant throughout the twentieth century. As late as the 1930’s, many, perhaps most, American teachers took a course (about two years long) at a college that just taught teachers. Slowly over the next few decades the requirements for teaching expanded to a full bachelor’s degree (and even master’s degrees became common for teachers). Many teacher’s colleges became full universities. That’s where many of the smaller state universities came from. Other teacher’s colleges just closed. ---
**Author:** ![OxyMoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/e9a140/32.png) [@OxyMoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OxyMoron)\ **Post date:** [March 18, 2003, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-university-ever-become-defunct/162202/15 "2003-03-18T14:37:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by peepthis \* > \*\*From that list it looks like lots of them went under in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Now my impression was that that was a time when enrollments were greatly expanding, as Baby Boomers’ younger siblings were getting to college age, and more and more women were attending universities. Is there something that I’m missing here that would explain the glut of erstwhile institutions going under at that time? \*\* Many universities and colleges came very close to going under during that period because of inflation, which started roaring during LBJ’s Vietnam/Great Society “guns-_and_-butter” compromise. My undergraduate college, Carleton, came damn close to being a victim, as did N.Y.U., where I attended law school. (According to a friend who worked there, at least once N.Y.U. actually couldn’t meet payroll and had to ask professors not to take checks so that their secretaries could get paid.) The problem, as I understand it, was that prior to this period most private colleges and universities invested their endowments heavily in long-term, low-interest government and private bonds. In the stable, low-inflation economy of the 50s and 60s that seemed sensible - and had the virtue of not requiring very much thought. At the same time, to accommodate the baby boom most colleges and universities went on building binges. Carleton, for example, doubled its infrastructure between 1950 and 1970. But the cost of this expansion, combined with risk-aversion in investment, became very clear when inflation started to hit - 3% bonds don’t help much when expenses are going up 7% and more. And these investments tended to be pretty illiquid, which left a number of institutions (including the ones I named and many others - Brown comes to mind) in a very bad spot. Carleton was saved through the efforts of a very agile president, who slashed faculty benefits, hired cheap, recent graduates, and squeezed more students into existing dormitories. He went on to rescue Brown. N.Y.U. ended up selling its main campus in the Bronx to the State of New York, closing its engineering school, and consolidating its remaining programs at Washington Square, which to that point had been essentially a commuter branch.