# Has a vice-president ever run against a U.S. president? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 5, 2019, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-vice-president-ever-run-against-a-u-s-president/836545 "2019-07-05T01:36:06Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-vice-president-ever-run-against-a-u-s-president/836545/1 "2019-07-05T01:36:06Z")
Has a U.S. vice-president ever run against the U.S. president in a presidential election, when the president is seeking re-election for a further term? If not, is it technically possible for a vice-president to do so? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-vice-president-ever-run-against-a-u-s-president/836545/2 "2019-07-05T01:42:15Z")
Of course it’s technically possible, since anyone who serves as vice-president also has to meet the requirements to be president (native-born U.S. citizen, at least 35 years old). A complicating factor, however, is that the president and vice-president run on (and are elected on) the same ticket. At least through the 20th and 21st centuries, this has meant that they’re both members of the same political party (for all I know, this may have always been true, but I’m not an expert on early U.S. politics). So, for a sitting vice-president to run against a sitting president, one of two things would have to happen: 1. After being originally elected, one of the two of them changes political parties. It’d then be possible for both of them to gain the nominations of different parties for the following election. 2. The vice-president chooses to run against his president for their party’s nomination in the next election. In this case, only one of them (at most) would wind up as the party’s nominee for the general election. In either of those cases, one imagines that there would be intense pressure for the vice-president to resign before the election (while the other members of the Executive Branch serve at the will of the president, and he can fire them, I’m not sure if this is the case regarding the vice-president) – and, if it had been the president who’d changed parties in case 1, there might well be political pressure on him (from members of his former party) to resign, as well. ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-vice-president-ever-run-against-a-u-s-president/836545/3 "2019-07-05T01:44:27Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Has a U.S. vice-president ever run against the U.S. president in a presidential election, when the president is seeking re-election for a further term? If not, is it technically possible for a vice-president to do so? Technically, yes, right at the very beginning, when John Adams was defeated in his re-election attempt by his vice president Thomas Jefferson. But given how the system was a lot different then, it’s not exactly comparable to what it would be like if it happened now. It might have happened some other time, but I stopped looking when I found one such occasion. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-vice-president-ever-run-against-a-u-s-president/836545/4 "2019-07-05T01:44:41Z")
In the 1800 election, incumbent President John Adams ran against and was defeated by Vice-President Thomas Jefferson. In 1940, Vice President John Garner ran against FDR, mostly out of protest for FDR running for a third term. Technically John Adams ran against George Washington in 1792, though the outcome of that was pretty well decided long before anyone actually cast a vote. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-vice-president-ever-run-against-a-u-s-president/836545/5 "2019-07-05T01:46:46Z")
> [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](#): > > Has a U.S. vice-president ever run against the U.S. president in a presidential election, when the president is seeking re-election for a further term? If not, is it technically possible for a vice-president to do so? In the early days of the US, this kind of thing did happen. Thomas Jefferson was John Adams VP, and ran against Adams in 1800 (and won). This was more likely then because the person who came in 2nd in the election became the VP and thus was a natural opponent against the incumbent in the next election. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-vice-president-ever-run-against-a-u-s-president/836545/6 "2019-07-05T01:52:23Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > In 1940, Vice President John Garner ran against FDR, mostly out of protest for FDR running for a third term. I didn’t know anything about this, so I just did some reading. It sounds like Garner campaigned for the nomination, while FDR remained coy about seeking a third term, up until the Democratic National Convention. At the convention, FDR apparently engineered a “spontaneous” call for his renomination, and easily won the first nomination vote. ---
**Author:** ![Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b487fb/32.png) [@Walken\_After\_Midnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walken_After_Midnight)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-vice-president-ever-run-against-a-u-s-president/836545/7 "2019-07-05T02:14:42Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > I didn’t know anything about this, so I just did some reading. It sounds like Garner campaigned for the nomination, while FDR remained coy about seeking a third term, up until the Democratic National Convention. At the convention, FDR apparently engineered a “spontaneous” call for his renomination, and easily won the first nomination vote. Yeah, looks like [del]Greedo shot first[/del] Garner threw his hat into the ring first, and Roosevelt let fly his fedora at the very last moment to claim victory. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-vice-president-ever-run-against-a-u-s-president/836545/8 "2019-07-05T02:21:18Z")
Things were weird in the years leading up to the Civil War. In 1856 incumbent President Franklin Pierce campaigned for reelection, but was defeated in his own party convention by his Minister to the United Kingdom, James Buchanan. In the general election, Buchanan ran against former President Millard Fillmore among several others. By 1860 Buchanan and the nation were tired of each other. Buchanan’s Vice President, John C. Breckinridge, ran for President. However, the Democratic party split, and ended up nominating two candidates in separate conventions, the other being Stephen Douglas. The general election ended up being a four-way race with Breckinridge, Douglas, John Bell, and Abraham Lincoln all winning at least three states each. In 1884, Chester A. Arthur made a rather dispirited bid for a second term. Arthur didn’t have a Vice President, but the nomination went to James G. Blaine, his Secretary of State And then there was 1948, when former Vice President Henry Wallace, who FDR replaced with Harry Truman, and who then served as Secretary of Commerce until Truman fired him in 1946, ran for President as a third-party candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-vice-president-ever-run-against-a-u-s-president/836545/9 "2019-07-05T05:36:00Z")
The VP cannot be fired by the President; he is an elected figure. Congress can fire him, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-vice-president-ever-run-against-a-u-s-president/836545/10 "2019-07-05T05:38:00Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > … > > In 1884, Chester A. Arthur made a rather dispirited bid for a second term. Arthur didn’t have a Vice President, … Wait, what? ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-vice-president-ever-run-against-a-u-s-president/836545/11 "2019-07-05T06:14:47Z")
> [@Leo\_Bloom](#): > > Wait, what? Arthur was elected as Garfield’s vice-president, and became president after Garfield was assassinated. Before the passage of the 25th Amendment (1967), there was no mechanism to fill a vacant vice-presidency before the next election. [Here’s a list of presidents who didn’t have a vice-president for at least part of their term.](https://forgottenhistoryblog.com/18-american-presidents-didnt-have-a-vice-president-for-all-or-some-of-their-terms/) Four of them didn’t have a vice-president for all of their time in office; Arthur was the most recent. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-vice-president-ever-run-against-a-u-s-president/836545/12 "2019-07-05T07:01:33Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > At least through the 20th and 21st centuries, this has meant that they’re both members of the same political party (for all I know, this may have always been true, but I’m not an expert on early U.S. politics). Up until 1800, the Vice President was whoever got the second most electoral votes; usually the opponent of the winner. ---
**Author:** ![Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Ulf\_the\_Unwashed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulf_the_Unwashed)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-vice-president-ever-run-against-a-u-s-president/836545/13 "2019-07-05T12:29:07Z")
> [@Kent\_Clark](#): > > … > The general election ended up being a four-way race with Breckinridge, Douglas, John Bell, and Abraham Lincoln all winning at least three states each… Douglas actually only won Missouri, though I think he got an electoral vote or two In NJ. Bell did win three states and the rest were won by Lincoln or Breckinridge. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 12:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-vice-president-ever-run-against-a-u-s-president/836545/14 "2019-07-05T12:41:34Z")
> [@MikeS](#): > > Arthur was elected as Garfield’s vice-president, and became president after Garfield was assassinated. Before the passage of the 25th Amendment (1967), there was no mechanism to fill a vacant vice-presidency before the next election. > > [Here’s a list of presidents who didn’t have a vice-president for at least part of their term.](https://forgottenhistoryblog.com/18-american-presidents-didnt-have-a-vice-president-for-all-or-some-of-their-terms/) Four of them didn’t have a vice-president for all of their time in office; Arthur was the most recent. LBJ was the last president to not bother selecting a VP afterthe became President (this leaving the office open until the next election). Nixon and Ford both filled the empty slot more quickly - setting a precedent that I suspect will be followed henceforth. ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-vice-president-ever-run-against-a-u-s-president/836545/15 "2019-07-05T12:53:38Z")
It wasn’t that LBJ didn’t “bother selecting a VP”, he didn’t have the authority to do so. That was added to the Constitution in 1967 in the 25th amendment. Humphrey was elected as LBJ’s VP in 1964. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-vice-president-ever-run-against-a-u-s-president/836545/16 "2019-07-05T12:58:38Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > It wasn’t that LBJ didn’t “bother selecting a VP”, he didn’t have the authority to do so. That was added to the Constitution in 1967 in the 25th amendment. Humphrey was elected as LBJ’s VP in 1964. Thank you. I did not realize that. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-vice-president-ever-run-against-a-u-s-president/836545/17 "2019-07-05T13:57:44Z")
> [@OldGuy](#): > > It wasn’t that LBJ didn’t “bother selecting a VP”, he didn’t have the authority to do so. That was added to the Constitution in 1967 in the 25th amendment. Humphrey was elected as LBJ’s VP in 1964. > [@Andy\_L](#): > > Thank you. I did not realize that. In fact, it was that particular vacancy that prompted the passage of the 25th Amendment. Without a VP, the next in line to LBJ were Speaker of the House [John McCormack](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_W._McCormack), who was over 70, and President Pro Tem of the Senate [Carl Hayden](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Hayden), who was in his 80s. Because of their age, neither inspired confidence as a possible successor. Especially because of this situation, it was decided a prolonged vacancy in the Vice Presidency was too risky. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-vice-president-ever-run-against-a-u-s-president/836545/18 "2019-07-05T16:22:44Z")
There was a lot of haste involved with the 25th Amendment. It was okayed by Congress in July 1965 (less than two years after the Kennedy assassination). It was ratified by the states about a year and a half later. Quite rapid considering. And then it was invoked (twice!) just a short time later. In 1973 to replace Agnew with Ford and in 1974 to have Rockefeller fill the slot when Ford moved up. It’s only been applied since then for Acting President situations. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-vice-president-ever-run-against-a-u-s-president/836545/19 "2019-07-06T01:33:25Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > It’s only been applied since then for Acting President situations. Even then, it’s useful. It would have been nice to have James A. Garfield temporarily sign over his powers to Chester A. Arthur before one of the [many, ugly, disgusting medical procedures](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/dirty-painful-death-president-james-garfield) Garfield had to endure over 80 days until he finally died from his bullet wound. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2019, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-vice-president-ever-run-against-a-u-s-president/836545/20 "2019-07-06T21:03:12Z")
> [@MikeS](#): > > … > [Here’s a list of presidents who didn’t have a vice-president for at least part of their term.](https://forgottenhistoryblog.com/18-american-presidents-didnt-have-a-vice-president-for-all-or-some-of-their-terms/) Four of them didn’t have a vice-president for all of their time in office; Arthur was the most recent. Thanks. What a great website! [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-a-vice-president-ever-run-against-a-u-s-president/836545.md?page=2)