# Has America become a Predator State? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 10, 2006, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-become-a-predator-state/383609 "2006-12-10T22:37:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2006, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-become-a-predator-state/383609/1 "2006-12-10T22:37:29Z")
Getting rid of George Bush won’t solve our problems, if James Galbraith is right. Neither will getting the Republican part out of the White House and both house of Congress, if we don’t recognize the essential problem posed by American democracy nowadays. That problem is that America has become a predator state, as defined in [James Galbreath’s essay .](http://informationclearinghouse.info/article12880.htm) The essence of Galbreath’s thesis is that **some elements of** the wealthy elite in the United States have broken the civil compact with the rest of us, becoming economic predators who are looting the wealth prduced by the middle class for their own short-term gains. I boldfaced ‘some elements of’ for a reason, that reason being that not all of the wealthy elite are in on the predator state scam, and in fact dislike it because they accurately see that it’s screwing up the system for them. Of course, the people who are really being hurt by the predator state are the middle class and the poor, who endure economic stagnation while the wealthy enjoy huge economic gains. The thing I really like about Galbraith’s analysis is that it ties together a number of seemingly disparate economic elements: the corruption that made Enron occur is the same as the corruption that made the Abramov scandal occur, the moral indifference that has made us a torture state, and the general indifference that led to a total lack of after-conquest planning on Iraq is the same indifference that led to the failures in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina. The Bush regime and the Republican leadership in Congress and their corporate allies in Congress are predators. Iraq wasn’t a war, it was a kill. 911 wasn’t a tragedy, it was cover for the looting the Bushes and Cheneys and the Halliburtons are doing. And the thing is, even turning the Repubilcans out of Congress AND the White House won’t do the trick by itself, because nothing is more predictable than that the corporate predators will be doing their damnedest to find new allies among the Democrats, and if the Democrats are held to strict standards, they’ll succeed and it’ll be predation as usual. The good news is, the Dems can turn this whole phenom to their advantage if they are willign to forswear predation themselves and tag the Republicans as what they currently are: the party of predation. It’s a tremendous populist issue that could probably bring over honest fiscal conservatives who hate what the Republicans have done ot our economic system under their predatory policies, as well as honest social conservatives who hate corruption and graft on general principles. We’ll probably need their help, because the real genius of Karl Rove’s analysis was that with the help of retarded social conservatives who were willing to vote away their children’s economic future out of fear that somewhere, someday, tow gay people might fall in love and marry one another, the predators could get the political power they needed to loot the economic system. Rove’s twisted vision saw this occuring perpetually, but there’s hope that it might only last for eight years. We’d better hope it doesn’t because as Galbreath noted, predator states fail because the upper class elite looters don’t care about the outcome of their actions so long as it leads to money for them. If we don’t destroy the predator state elements soon, America could become just another Third World banana republic. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2006, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-become-a-predator-state/383609/2 "2006-12-10T22:39:00Z")
[Lemme fix that link.](http://informationclearinghouse.info/article12880.htm) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2006, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-become-a-predator-state/383609/3 "2006-12-10T22:47:23Z")
Is this thread any different than [this thread?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=385928) I think I said all I have to say in the latter thread. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2006, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-become-a-predator-state/383609/4 "2006-12-10T23:37:19Z")
[QUOTE=John Mace] Is this thread any different than [this thread?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=385928) I think I said all I have to say in the latter thread. [/QUOTE] Yes, there are a number of significant differences. 1. As I took pains to state in my OP, the Predator State theory maintains that only SOME rich are involved in plundering the middle class. The thread you cite is more of a generic class war analysis with the all of the wealthy elite opposed against everyone else. Predator State theory says that those wealthy who aren’t connected, or who aren’t interested in predation for ethical or other reasons, hate the Predator State wealthy elite as much as anyone else does, and can be allies against the Predator State elite. 2. Predator State theory explains a few things that class warfare doesn’t. It explains the indifference of the Bush Admininstration to things like Hurricane Katrina and the aftermath of the Iraq war, with disastrous consequences in both. Class war analysis would only see this as unrelated blunders. Predator State analysis says it’s in keeping with the nature of predator states. 3. Predator State theory does a better job of explaining the endemic corruption of the Bush Admin and the Republican Congress. Class war analysis doesn’t really demand corruption – the wealthy and the political elite collude to rip off the middle class through perfectly legal means, mostly by seeing that whatever the corporate moguls and the super rich want to do is legal, whatever it might be. Legal campaign contributions slide back to legal ripoffs of the public, such as the bankruptcy bill. The crimes are all economic crimes. The Predator State analysis calls for blatant corruption of the sort shown in the Abramov scandal, Enron, the defence of slave labor in American terriotories, etc. Class war analysis neither explains nor predicts these things. 4. Predator State theory explains the invasion of Iraq as just part of the endemic predation of the Bush Republican party. Class warfare analysis doesn’t enter into foreign relations. Thanks for asking! ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 10, 2006, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-become-a-predator-state/383609/5 "2006-12-10T23:47:48Z")
> [@JK Galraith](#): > > Our rulers deliver favors to their clients. These range from Native American casino operators, to Appalachian coal companies, to Saipan sweatshop operators, to the would-be oil field operators of Iraq. They include the misanthropes who led the campaign to abolish the estate tax; Charles Schwab, who suggested the dividend tax cut of 2003; the “Benedict Arnold” companies who move their taxable income offshore; and the financial institutions behind last year’s bankruptcy bill. Everywhere you look, public decisions yield gains to specific private entities. While he makes the point that these benefit specific big guys significantly, he doesn’t mention any benefits to the little guys. For example, while I know nothing of America’s Dividend Tax, I do know that many Americans hold shares, either directly or indirectly (as options or pensions), and so might benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-become-a-predator-state/383609/6 "2006-12-11T02:52:43Z")
Those darn predators. Because of them, my conservative municipal funds have only been generating returns in the high teens and low 20 percentages, my stocks are up about 30%. and the interest rates on my CD’s are just below 6%. My retirement fund is doing quite nicely, as well. :rolleyes: It’s nice of them, for being so predatory, to take me along with them. And, I can’t really describe what I think about the person who actually believes that 9/11 was a coverup…but y’all know what I’m thinking. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 3:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-become-a-predator-state/383609/7 "2006-12-11T03:09:53Z")
[QUOTE=Rysdad] Those darn predators. Because of them, my conservative municipal funds have only been generating returns in the high teens and low 20 percentages, my stocks are up about 30%. and the interest rates on my CD’s are just below 6%. My retirement fund is doing quite nicely, as well. :rolleyes: It’s nice of them, for being so predatory, to take me along with them. [/quote] Enjoy the ride while it lasts. But be advised, predatory states almost always fail, becuase they’re not being governed, they’re being milied. > [@](#): > > And, I can’t really describe what I think about the person who actually believes that 9/11 was a coverup…but y’all know what I’m thinking. Whence come this? I have never advocated any such belief. Are you referring to Galbraith? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-become-a-predator-state/383609/8 "2006-12-11T03:29:41Z")
No, he refers to this quote from your OP: [QUOTE=Evil Captor] 911 wasn’t a tragedy, it was cover for the looting the Bushes and Cheneys and the Halliburtons are doing. [/QUOTE] While I can guess what you really meant, the structure of this sentence, especially the assertion that 9/11 “wasn’t a tragedy,” implies that you think it was orchestrated by the government. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-become-a-predator-state/383609/9 "2006-12-11T03:50:03Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] No, he refers to this quote from your OP: While I can guess what you really meant, the structure of this sentence, especially the assertion that 9/11 “wasn’t a tragedy,” implies that you think it was orchestrated by the government. [/QUOTE] I can see how it might reasonably be interpreted that way. What I meant was that the Bushistas didn’t SEE 911 as a tragedy, they saw it as cover for their looting. The speed and alacrity with which they took political advantage of 911 is, if not proof it that, at least an indicator. ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 3:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-become-a-predator-state/383609/10 "2006-12-11T03:53:13Z")
[QUOTE=Leaper] While I can guess what you really meant, the structure of this sentence, especially the assertion that 9/11 “wasn’t a tragedy,” implies that you think it was orchestrated by the government. [/QUOTE] More of a **trifecta** than a tragedy actually; a God Given opportunity to spend the country into the poor house: > [@](#): > > [President Bush](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/03/20020327-10.html) > I’ll never forget one time in Chicago when a reporter said, would you ever deficit spend? And I said, well, only – only if we were at war, only if there were a national emergency, or only if there is a recession. Never did I believe we’d get the trifecta. (Laughter.) But we’re dealing with it. At the very least, the president’s words suggest that the government viewed 9/11 as an opportunity, in addition to being a tragedy. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-become-a-predator-state/383609/11 "2006-12-11T04:28:27Z")
[QUOTE=Evil Captor] That problem is that America has become a predator state, as defined in [James Galbreath’s essay .](http://informationclearinghouse.info/article12880.htm) [/QUOTE] You know…I read that essay. I never fail to wonder, when I read drivel like that, how writers of such drivel manage to get up and successfully dress themselves in the morning. ---
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-become-a-predator-state/383609/12 "2006-12-11T04:36:50Z")
[QUOTE=Clothahump] You know…I read that essay. I never fail to wonder, when I read drivel like that, how writers of such drivel manage to get up and successfully dress themselves in the morning. [/QUOTE] Weird. I feel the same way about your so-called arguments. Then again, something we agree on. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-become-a-predator-state/383609/13 "2006-12-11T05:06:49Z")
Not that it seems this OP is worth debating, but I get a page not found when I try and hit the linked essay. Based on whats in the actual OP, and noting this is GD and not The Pit, I’ll just answer (provisionally…maybe the essay will totally win me over as the OP has not 😛 ): Has America become a Predator State? Answer: No. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-become-a-predator-state/383609/14 "2006-12-11T06:19:27Z")
[QUOTE=xtisme] Not that it seems this OP is worth debating, but I get a page not found when I try and hit the linked essay. Based on whats in the actual OP, and noting this is GD and not The Pit, I’ll just answer (provisionally…maybe the essay will totally win me over as the OP has not 😛 ): Has America become a Predator State? Answer: No. -XT [/QUOTE] Go to the second post, the one whose text is entitled “Lemme fix that link.” That one works for me. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-become-a-predator-state/383609/15 "2006-12-11T06:20:43Z")
[QUOTE=Clothahump] You know…I read that essay. I never fail to wonder, when I read drivel like that, how writers of such drivel manage to get up and successfully dress themselves in the morning. [/QUOTE] yeah, the way they make up stuff like the Iraq war and Enron and shit. Jeebus, have they no shame? :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-become-a-predator-state/383609/16 "2006-12-11T06:21:19Z")
Nobody else saw the documentary on Animal Planet that showed America hunting zebras in Africa? Marc ---
**Author:** ![pool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pool/32/4152_2.png) [@pool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pool)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-become-a-predator-state/383609/17 "2006-12-11T06:24:38Z")
**Evil Captor** if your proposition of the U.S. is a Predator State is true, do you have any thoughts on what would be done about this? ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-become-a-predator-state/383609/18 "2006-12-11T06:37:44Z")
[QUOTE=Squink] At the very least, the president’s words suggest that the government viewed 9/11 as an opportunity, in addition to being a tragedy. [/QUOTE] True, and who doesn’t. If the stock market crashed today, it would certainly be a tragedy for those involved, but I’m backing up the truck! Why is that so wrong? ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-become-a-predator-state/383609/19 "2006-12-11T11:22:24Z")
[QUOTE=Rysdad] Those darn predators. Because of them, my conservative municipal funds have only been generating returns in the high teens and low 20 percentages, my stocks are up about 30%. and the interest rates on my CD’s are just below 6%. [/QUOTE] By definition, a conservative muni can not have returns 3-4 prime. ---
**Author:** ![China\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/779978/32.png) [@China\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/China_Guy)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2006, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-become-a-predator-state/383609/20 "2006-12-11T11:25:32Z")
Doh! 3-4 times greater than the prime rate. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-become-a-predator-state/383609.md?page=2)