# Has America jumped the shark? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 13, 2004, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-jumped-the-shark/274510 "2004-11-13T02:32:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-jumped-the-shark/274510/21 "2004-11-13T05:58:58Z")
> [@harwell](#): > > And they were right. Ronnie started us on the long, downward spiral into what we’ve become today: the mentally defective bully of the Western World. Who the hell could’ve imagined when the Gipper was first elected that we’d look back on poor old Bill Clinton, who gave us eight years of peace and unprecedented prosperity, as an aberration in a quarter-century-long slide? I’m no fan of Reagan, but this simply isn’t true. The US has been bullying other, smaller nations as long as it has existed. The Spanish-American War, the Monroe Doctrine, the Roosevelt Corollary to the Monroe Doctrine, the United Fruit Company, etc-need I go on? Durin the Eisenhower administration, the CIA went into Guatemala and overthrew the government…all for the sake of a fruit company. I’m not trying to start another “US IS BAD!” argument, just pointing out that Reagan didn’t start this. It’s always been done, and we’re not the only nation to act this way, either. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-jumped-the-shark/274510/22 "2004-11-13T06:19:44Z")
No question, America has. Next thing you know, America’s going to go on vacation to Hawaii, have a “Christmas Carol” episode, have a very special episode about drug use or child abuse, and then our wacky cousin is going to move in. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 6:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-jumped-the-shark/274510/23 "2004-11-13T06:41:48Z")
> [@Blake](#): > > Why are we all posting in haiku? It’s easier than coming up with a well-reasoned counterargument to the OP? ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-jumped-the-shark/274510/24 "2004-11-13T06:45:01Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > It’s easier than coming up with a well-reasoned counterargument to the OP? You are one to talk Master of the senseless quip The OP was lame. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-jumped-the-shark/274510/25 "2004-11-13T06:56:44Z")
**Captain Amazing** LOL !!! ---
**Author:** ![Blackacre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@Blackacre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackacre)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-jumped-the-shark/274510/26 "2004-11-13T07:01:59Z")
> [@harwell](#): > > Honestly now, everybody take a deep breath and reflect: a President who > > Got us into what looks to be an endless war with an enemy that makes the Viet Cong look like a bunch of Franciscan monks, in a country that had nothing to do with 9/11 and had no WMD, > > Failed to apprehend the real perp behind 9/11, and now freely admits he doesn’t even much care about him anymore, > > Took the sympathy of the entire world, shat on it, and turned us into the pariah of the civilized world practically overnight, > > Has a “spend-but-don’t-tax” fiscal policy that is sane only if your long-range goal is to “starve the beast”, i.e., bankrupt the federal government, > > Savages the environment, lies like a rug, smirks, smears his opponents, jibbers, drools… > > THAT President is elected to another four-year term. And please, let’s not talk about whether 1% of the vote cast was futzed with here, or 1.5% there – the election should’ve been a LANDSLIDE for his opponent, if said opponent was Spongebob Squarepants! > > So, the question: did we jump the shark? Will we ever again be able to hold our head up in the Family of Nations, or have we proved once and for all that we forever belong at the childrens’ table… the sl-o-o-ow childrens’ table? No, but the rest of the world has, you fucking idiot. =D Cheers! BA ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-jumped-the-shark/274510/27 "2004-11-13T07:19:57Z")
> [@Blackacre](#): > > No, but the rest of the world has, you fucking idiot. **Blackers** , it’s Great Debates, old chap, not the Pit. ---
**Author:** ![Blackacre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@Blackacre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blackacre)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 7:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-jumped-the-shark/274510/28 "2004-11-13T07:24:45Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > **Blackers** , it’s Great Debates, old chap, not the Pit. D’oh, my bad mate, apologies all around. =D Cheers! BA ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 8:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-jumped-the-shark/274510/29 "2004-11-13T08:31:21Z")
**Moderator’s Note:** **Blackacre** , the name of the forum you’re in is right at the top of the page. And also at the bottom of the thread (check the “forum jump” box, it shows what forum you’re currently in). If you’re in any doubt, scroll up or scroll down. Don’t do that again. ---
**Author:** ![Merkwurdigliebe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/74df32/32.png) [@Merkwurdigliebe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merkwurdigliebe)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-jumped-the-shark/274510/30 "2004-11-13T08:56:55Z")
> [@manhattan](#): > > Until the wall fell > there were two superpowers > now there is but one. > Seriously? There is and will continue to be something of a _relative_ decline as American (and occasionally other) efforts to spread democracy through the world lead to increasing living standards for the world’s poor. In the 70’s and 80’s it was the Asian Tigers and Japan. Now it’s the former Eastern Bloc, 10 years from now it will be the current tyrannies of the middle east. But that’s a good thing. There’s no need to be the top dog (or at least no need to be top by a huge margin) when all the other dogs are good ones too. That’s what I’m saying too. I mean, when China gets a per/capita GDP like ours, we won’t really have any reason to be considered a hegemon anymore. I say our hegemony runs out around 2020. ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-jumped-the-shark/274510/31 "2004-11-13T09:34:08Z")
1925 in Europe and New York. America was called as ‘provincial.’ The economy crashed, demons came. America saved them all. Again. ---
**Author:** ![davenportavenger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5f8ce5/32.png) [@davenportavenger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davenportavenger)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-jumped-the-shark/274510/32 "2004-11-13T10:09:23Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > No question, America has. Next thing you know, America’s going to go on vacation to Hawaii, have a “Christmas Carol” episode, have a very special episode about drug use or child abuse, and then our wacky cousin is going to move in. Don’t forget the episode where America accidentally makes a date with the retarded country and has to find a way out of it, but learns in the end that all countries are important in their own way. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Rieux](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Dr.Rieux](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Rieux)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-jumped-the-shark/274510/33 "2004-11-13T12:06:55Z")
> [@Ryan\_Liam](#): > > I wonder, will it ever be fashonable to actually like George Bush to buck the ridiculous trend which is going on at the moment? Fashionable? Yes. Intelligent? No. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-jumped-the-shark/274510/34 "2004-11-13T12:16:30Z")
> [@Brutus](#): > > Defective we ain’t > Look at our mad haiku skills > Shakespeare can suck it. 😃 Thanks for the laugh. I needed it. As to the OP > [@](#): > > Got us into what looks to be an endless war with an enemy that makes the Viet Cong look like a bunch of Franciscan monks Where are getting _this_ from?? ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-jumped-the-shark/274510/35 "2004-11-13T12:35:28Z")
> [@Blackacre](#): > > No, but the rest of the world has In global, non-US surveys, there was around 81% opposition to Bush. This is roughly 4,657,500,000 people; in the US there was 49% opposition to Bush. This is roughly 122,500,000 people. So we have a global split of ~ 4,780,000,000 people vs 1,220,000,000, or ~80% of the world vs 20%. You may not like this, but I think it would be a good idea for Bush voters to acknowledge that it is in fact the US electorate that has lurched to the right, not the rest of the world to the left. ---
**Author:** ![ccwaterback](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/df705f/32.png) [@ccwaterback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ccwaterback)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-jumped-the-shark/274510/36 "2004-11-13T12:46:05Z")
You guys just don’t get it. The whole world WANTS to be like us. Just ask the CEO of Walmart, he will tell you. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-jumped-the-shark/274510/37 "2004-11-13T13:50:20Z")
> [@jjimm](#): > > In global, non-US surveys, there was around 81% opposition to Bush. This is roughly 4,657,500,000 people; in the US there was 49% opposition to Bush. This is roughly 122,500,000 people. So we have a global split of ~ 4,780,000,000 people vs 1,220,000,000, or ~80% of the world vs 20%. That may be true, but when I think how many people hate _my_ government, how many people hate may country, and how many people hate the fact that I still draw breath… well, I realize that numbers like that don’t mean shit. Life is not a popularity contest. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-jumped-the-shark/274510/38 "2004-11-13T14:16:04Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > That may be true, but when I think how many people hate _my_ government, how many people hate may country, and how many people hate the fact that I still draw breath… well, I realize that numbers like that don’t mean shit. Life is not a popularity contest. I was merely responding to the assertion that it was the rest of the world that had “jumped the shark”. It is the US that has changed - in recent decades US politics have moved way to the right of nearly all of the rest of the democratic world. The Republicans have won 7 of the past 10 presidential elections, and the Republicans are very strongly to the right of most significant conservative parties around the world. Without wishing to hijack this thread into a discussion of the Israel/Palestine problem, I’m sure in a similar poll, despite the horrific intentions of some of your near neighbours, you’d find the vast majority of the world didn’t hate your country, but perhaps merely opposed the current government’s policies in the Occupied Territories. Britain used to face similar international oppobrium for its policies in Northern Ireland, and justifiably so, in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![RandomLetters](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8edcca/32.png) [@RandomLetters](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandomLetters)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-jumped-the-shark/274510/39 "2004-11-13T15:26:39Z")
> [@harwell](#): > > Got us into what looks to be an endless war with an enemy that makes the Viet Cong look like a bunch of Franciscan monks, Why do you say that The Philliphines took more lives to take, occupy ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2004, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-jumped-the-shark/274510/40 "2004-11-13T16:19:08Z")
> [@](#): > > in recent decades US politics have moved way to the right of nearly all of the rest of the democratic world. And in those same decades, the U.S. has become a massive economic powerhouse with the highest per capita income in the world (except for Luxembourg). Coincidence? If the rest of the world jumped off a bridge, would you? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-jumped-the-shark/274510.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-america-jumped-the-shark/274510.md?page=3)