# Has an aircraft ever shot itself down? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 5, 2010, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-aircraft-ever-shot-itself-down/542050 "2010-06-05T12:59:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Happy\_Poster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@Happy\_Poster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Poster)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-aircraft-ever-shot-itself-down/542050/1 "2010-06-05T12:59:52Z")
There have been a number of cases where submarines and ships have succesfully torpedoed themselves. Any aeronautical equivilant? ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Sensitive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/58956e/32.png) [@Darth\_Sensitive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Sensitive)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-aircraft-ever-shot-itself-down/542050/2 "2010-06-05T13:17:06Z")
Back in WWI, there were definite issues with planes shooting through their own props actually shooting the propeller until the installation of synchronization gear that would only let the guns fire when there was no blade in the way. Slightly similarly, tail gunners and turret gunners were able to shoot portions of their own planes. You can see an excellent example of this in the well known documentary _Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade_. (Don’t know of any real examples for either, but it is/was possible.) ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-aircraft-ever-shot-itself-down/542050/3 "2010-06-05T13:41:42Z")
Im pretty sure they put interruptors into turrets pretty quickly for fairly obvious reasons. They could malfunction I guess. There is this: > **[Grumman F-11 Tiger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-11_Tiger)** > > The Grumman F11F/F-11 Tiger is a supersonic, single-seat carrier-based fighter aircraft designed and produced by the American aircraft manufacturer Grumman. For a time, it held the world altitude record of 76,939 feet, as well as being the first supersonic fighter to be produced by Grumman. > Work on what would become the Tiger commended in 1952 as a design study, internally designated G-98, to improve the F9F-6/7 Cougar. However, the resulting design produced had little association with the Couga... “The F-11 Tiger is noted for being the first jet aircraft to shoot itself down. On 21 September 1956, during a test firing of its 20 mm (.79 in) cannons, pilot Tom Attridge fired two bursts mid-way through a shallow dive. As the velocity and trajectory of the cannon rounds decayed, they ultimately crossed paths with the Tiger as it continued its descent, disabling it and forcing Attridge to crash land the aircraft. The pilot survived.[1][2]” Note ‘first’, so presumably theres more. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-aircraft-ever-shot-itself-down/542050/4 "2010-06-05T18:04:13Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > “The F-11 Tiger is noted for being the first jet aircraft to shoot itself down. …” > > Note ‘first’, so presumably theres more. Also note that it was the “first jet aircraft”, implying that non-jet aircraft had managed the feat before. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-aircraft-ever-shot-itself-down/542050/5 "2010-06-05T19:08:44Z")
This isn’t exactly what you’re asking about, but here’s an account of a T-33 pilot intentionally shooting his own tip tank with a pistol: [Shooting Up a Shooting Star - Air & Space Magazine](http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/Above--Beyond-Shooting-Up-a-Shooting-Star.html) ---
**Author:** ![Bisected8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a4c791/32.png) [@Bisected8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bisected8)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-aircraft-ever-shot-itself-down/542050/6 "2010-06-05T19:30:48Z")
> [@Darth\_Sensitive](#): > > Back in WWI, there were definite issues with planes shooting through their own props actually shooting the propeller until the installation of synchronization gear that would only let the guns fire when there was no blade in the way. > > Slightly similarly, tail gunners and turret gunners were able to shoot portions of their own planes. You can see an excellent example of this in the well known documentary _Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade_. > > (Don’t know of any real examples for either, but it is/was possible.) I was watching a documentry yesterday on WWI planes which mentioned that shoting your own wings with the gun turret was a serious risk. They didn’t mention any specific incident, but presumably it happened at least once. Shooting through their own propellers never really happened. The issue was that the first attempt at making a forward fireing machine gun used a re-enforced prop which had a serious risk of sending stray bullets into the pilot or other parts of the plane. ---
**Author:** ![Llama\_Llogophile](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@Llama\_Llogophile](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Llama_Llogophile)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-aircraft-ever-shot-itself-down/542050/7 "2010-06-05T19:34:31Z")
> [@Mach Tuck](#): > > This isn’t exactly what you’re asking about, but here’s an account of a T-33 pilot intentionally shooting his own tip tank with a pistol: > > [Shooting Up a Shooting Star - Air & Space Magazine](http://www.airspacemag.com/history-of-flight/Above--Beyond-Shooting-Up-a-Shooting-Star.html) Correction - he was flying an F-80. The T-33 was the two-seat trainer version of the F-80. I actually got to fly one once, but thankfully didn’t need to shoot my own tanks. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-aircraft-ever-shot-itself-down/542050/8 "2010-06-05T21:40:42Z")
I’ve seen videos of planes getting hit by their empty drop tanks. ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-aircraft-ever-shot-itself-down/542050/9 "2010-06-05T22:24:16Z")
We didn’t lose any jets in my unit while I was in, but we damn sure bounced a few bombs off the airplanes. We were a weapons testing squadron, so we were doing things that hadn’t been done before…I’ve seen bombs come off the airplane, catch the wind the wrong way, and hit the wings/underside/tail of pretty much everything we were flying back then. Also seen missiles get stuck…ie, the weapon ignites normally, but does not come off the rail. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-aircraft-ever-shot-itself-down/542050/10 "2010-06-05T22:56:15Z")
I remember when Star Wars was first parodied by Mad Magazine. They mentioned that they were shooting lasers (light speed) and were travelling faster than light - so they shot themselves down. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Excellent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f19dbf/32.png) [@Mr.Excellent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Excellent)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-aircraft-ever-shot-itself-down/542050/11 "2010-06-05T23:10:03Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Also seen missiles get stuck…ie, the weapon ignites normally, but does not come off the rail. That sounds … exciting … ---
**Author:** ![Oakminster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/77aa72/32.png) [@Oakminster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oakminster)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-aircraft-ever-shot-itself-down/542050/12 "2010-06-05T23:39:30Z")
> [@Mr.Excellent](#): > > That sounds … exciting … It was. It was also a pain in the ass. Moreso when it happened to be a live, go-to-war missile. We had to declare an emergency, run through umpteen checklists, take a serpentine route to an alternate landing site to avoid populated areas, etc. Got lots of attention as we landed. Pilots get tons of paperwork, I have to rush the film over to the lab for processing, and probably deal with rules for classified film as well. ---
**Author:** ![Pushkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ee59a6/32.png) [@Pushkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pushkin)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2010, 11:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-aircraft-ever-shot-itself-down/542050/13 "2010-06-05T23:50:38Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > There is this: > > [Grumman F-11 Tiger - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-11_Tiger) > > “The F-11 Tiger is noted for being the first jet aircraft to shoot itself down. On 21 September 1956, during a test firing of its 20 mm (.79 in) cannons, pilot Tom Attridge fired two bursts mid-way through a shallow dive. As the velocity and trajectory of the cannon rounds decayed, they ultimately crossed paths with the Tiger as it continued its descent, disabling it and forcing Attridge to crash land the aircraft. The pilot survived.[1][2]” I read that in a decades old Reader’s Digest, but the account was vague and mentioned along side other similar stories. Interesting to see that it was actually true. > [@Quartz](#): > > I’ve seen videos of planes getting hit by their empty drop tanks. That and bombs that were being tested for a drop. I was surprised to see a bomb drop from a wing and then rise back up and strike the plane that had carried it. ---
**Author:** ![lazybratsche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ba8739/32.png) [@lazybratsche](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lazybratsche)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2010, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-aircraft-ever-shot-itself-down/542050/14 "2010-06-06T00:30:19Z")
Low altitude attack planes could be damaged by their own bombs if the pilots weren’t careful. I can’t find a good cite, but in flight sims I’ve done it plenty of times… There probably have been at least a few rookie pilots that were killed by their own bombs. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2010, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-aircraft-ever-shot-itself-down/542050/15 "2010-06-06T05:19:07Z")
> [@lazybratsche](#): > > Low altitude attack planes could be damaged by their own bombs if the pilots weren’t careful. I can’t find a good cite, but in flight sims I’ve done it plenty of times… There probably have been at least a few rookie pilots that were killed by their own bombs. Wasn’t that the reason behind fall-retarded bombs? Bombs with a small parachute so a bomber travelling at low level would have time to clear the blast radius. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2010, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-aircraft-ever-shot-itself-down/542050/16 "2010-06-06T05:51:44Z")
I remember reading about an F7F Tigercat pilot that shot himself down by firing in a climb, then dove for a bit, and when he pulled up he encountered his rounds after they had gone through their ballistic arc. This may not count, but I also read about a bored F2A Buffalo pilot who was practicing quick-draws with his side arm in a shoulder holster when it discharged and the recoil yanked him out of the cockpit. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2010, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-aircraft-ever-shot-itself-down/542050/17 "2010-06-06T05:57:18Z")
To be overly literal: > **[Aerial torpedo](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aerial_torpedo)** > > An aerial torpedo (also known as an airborne torpedo or air-dropped torpedo) is a torpedo launched from a torpedo bomber aircraft into the water, after which the weapon propels itself to the target. > First used in World War I, air-dropped torpedoes were used extensively in World War II, and remain in limited use. Aerial torpedoes are generally smaller and lighter than submarine- and surface-launched torpedoes. > The idea of dropping lightweight torpedoes from aircraft was conceived in the early 19... “Later in 1917, the U.S. Navy began to perform trials using a 400-pound (180 kg) dummy torpedo which, in its first air drop, porpoised from the water back up in the air and almost hit the aircraft.” So yes there was almost an accident where a plane torpedoed itself just like ships and submarines. Kinda. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2010, 8:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-aircraft-ever-shot-itself-down/542050/18 "2010-06-06T08:59:01Z")
> [@Oakminster](#): > > Also seen missiles get stuck…ie, the weapon ignites normally, but does not come off the rail. I’ve seen a video or two of those. Accompanied by much swearing from the pilot. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2010, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-aircraft-ever-shot-itself-down/542050/19 "2010-06-06T10:31:40Z")
> [@Pushkin](#): > > I was surprised to see a bomb drop from a wing and then rise back up and strike the plane that had carried it. Not as surprised as the guy in the _higher_ plane was in [this video](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QcrhF5ZlpQ). ---
**Author:** ![Napier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ce73a5/32.png) [@Napier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Napier)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2010, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-aircraft-ever-shot-itself-down/542050/20 "2010-06-06T11:58:21Z")
A test pilot speaking to our industrial group showed video and gave a secondhand account of an incident involving a pilot he worked with, who was testing a small rocket fired from under the wing of a fighter jet, at a not-very-generous altitude. The rocket engine faltered just after it launched, which due to the high drag of this small coasting object made it fall a few meters behind the jet. Then the engine caught in earnest and the rocket rapidly accelerated, quickly catching up with the jet and traveling through the cross section of the wing, cutting off its outer third or so. The jet rapidly rolled to one side whereupon the pilot aimed it into the ground and ejected. He survived the episode, and insisted that he had control of the jet’s remaining capabilities up until the moment of ejection. I think our speaker said the entire episode took 750 milliseconds to play out, except for the pilot returning to ground. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-aircraft-ever-shot-itself-down/542050.md?page=2)