# Has an armed citizen civilian ever stopped a mass shooting in America? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 13, 2017, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-armed-citizen-civilian-ever-stopped-a-mass-shooting-in-america/798762 "2017-10-13T23:28:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 5\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![legion60](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/53a042/32.png) [@legion60](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/legion60)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-armed-citizen-civilian-ever-stopped-a-mass-shooting-in-america/798762/21 "2017-10-15T00:44:58Z")
> [@igor\_frankensteen](#): > > Yes, you are wrong in thinking this. Or more exactly, you are incorrect. I read stories of civilians reacting forcefully against dangerous individuals, fairly often. Not at all commonly with guns, though. Most of the time they use whatever means are at hand. There’s nothing wrong overall, with the bravery of members of the general public. > > My suspicion, and you can tell me if I’m wrong, is that your thread was triggered in part at least, by one of the most common annoying arguments by part of the anti-gun control people, wherein they claim that we need to allow EVERYONE to be armed without any limits or regulations at all, BECAUSE every now and then, someone with a personal gun, does stop a bad guy. > > Hopefully, the fact that I’m bringing this up isn’t a problem within the thread. I think it’s strongly implied in the opening post. You are wrong. I was attempting to show that most of these guys with god knows how many guns on there person or in their vehicles do not help in a shooting situation. More often than not, they will run/ hide/ tell like the untrained civilians they are. What is the point in a well armed militia, when they go missing in these kind of situations? If the government ever, really, did something where the ’ well armed militia ’ would/should stand up to them, who really believes they wouldn’t run/ hide/ tell? ---
**Author:** ![kopek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kopek/32/337_2.png) [@kopek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kopek)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-armed-citizen-civilian-ever-stopped-a-mass-shooting-in-america/798762/22 "2017-10-15T06:16:06Z")
> [@legion60](#): > > I was attempting to show that most of these guys with god knows how many guns on there person or in their vehicles do not help in a shooting situation. My first thought was - at least some sure tried. And it addresses the OP/post #1 as well. The first Vegas-style incident in my memory was the “Texas Tower” where civilians came into play laying a sort of suppressing fire and an armed civilian went into the final assault along with (I believe) two police officers. Civilians were among the first to run into danger, putting their own lives at risk in the process; most unarmed admittedly but still reacting opposite what I think you personally would expect. [http://www.khou.com/news/local/texas/armed-civilian-helped-stop-ut-tower-sniper/285530964](http://www.khou.com/news/local/texas/armed-civilian-helped-stop-ut-tower-sniper/285530964) > **[University of Texas tower shooting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Texas_tower_shooting)** > > The University of Texas tower shooting was an act of mass murder which occurred on August 1, 1966, at the University of Texas at Austin. The perpetrator, 25-year-old Marine veteran Charles Whitman, indiscriminately fired at members of the public both within the Main Building tower and from the tower's observation deck. He shot and killed 15 people, including an unborn child, and injured 31 others before he was killed by two Austin Police Department officers approximately 96 minutes after first Reviews on the effectiveness of their actions (the armed portion of the civilians that day) are mixed at best and probably best suited to another thread more along the lines of a debate. But I think it does reflect some light on the various questions you raised. **Colibri** – if I went past your mark feel free to call me on it. I worded it as carefully as I could but I may be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Weisshund](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ba8739/32.png) [@Weisshund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Weisshund)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-armed-citizen-civilian-ever-stopped-a-mass-shooting-in-america/798762/23 "2017-10-15T22:01:20Z")
> [@legion60](#): > > I don’t recall any civilian trading shots with Vegas type killers. How would they? People at a concert do not generally carry scoped rifles, which is about what i would need to safely and effectively deal with the vegas shooter. And that is providing that i can spot his location fast enough. ---
**Author:** ![SamuelA](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@SamuelA](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SamuelA)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-armed-citizen-civilian-ever-stopped-a-mass-shooting-in-america/798762/24 "2017-10-15T22:05:22Z")
> [@Weisshund](#): > > How would they? > People at a concert do not generally carry scoped rifles, which is about what i would need to safely and effectively deal with the vegas shooter. > > And that is providing that i can spot his location fast enough. The next problem is, ok, let’s suppose you have your rifle. People are dying from the mass shooter, there’s lot’s of confusion. The laws are such that you have your rifle and a dozen other civilians in the crowd also have rifles and the cops also have rifles. And it’s dark. So you unsling your rifle and aim for the mass shooter. You don’t have a tracking point computerized sight, so you fire a shot and it misses. While you are screwing with your elevation knob, _another_ armed civilian in the crowd sees your muzzle flash, didn’t see the mass shooter, and he shoots you dead. Now a cop sees that armed civilian shoot you dead, and the cop shoots him dead. Other people in the crowd with their rifles react to the cop murdering a civilian by shooting the cop dead. His buddies join in and… Maybe this kind of multi-way shootout usually happens in the movies, but this is the kind of domino effect that is possible. It’s a known risk. Over a long enough timespan, if armed civilians were common, confusing shootouts like this would happen. They technically don’t even have to start with a mass shooter. Someone could have a negligent discharge, someone else could think they are a mass shooter firing the first shot, and then… ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-armed-citizen-civilian-ever-stopped-a-mass-shooting-in-america/798762/25 "2017-10-15T22:13:22Z")
> [@legion60](#): > > You are wrong. I was attempting to show that most of these guys with god knows how many guns on there person or in their vehicles do not help in a shooting situation. More often than not, they will run/ hide/ tell like the untrained civilians they are. What is the point in a well armed militia, when they go missing in these kind of situations? If the government ever, really, did something where the ’ well armed militia ’ would/should stand up to them, who really believes they wouldn’t run/ hide/ tell? **Moderator Note** If that was your intent, you should have opened this thread in Great Debates, not General Questions. Given this, I’m closing it. You may open a new thread in GD if you want to debate the issue, but you should make clear what your intent is. Colibri General Questions Moderator [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-an-armed-citizen-civilian-ever-stopped-a-mass-shooting-in-america/798762.md?page=1)