# Has any country ever kicked out (forced independence upon) part of its territory/people? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 25, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-ever-kicked-out-forced-independence-upon-part-of-its-territory-people/507638 "2009-08-25T15:23:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![strqwert44](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a87d85/32.png) [@strqwert44](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/strqwert44)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-ever-kicked-out-forced-independence-upon-part-of-its-territory-people/507638/1 "2009-08-25T15:23:49Z")
As a “fill-in-the-blank political persuasion”, I kinda wish that the other side would just take their politics and form their own country. Problem solved. So I was wondering…under the US Constitution any amendment can be added on so long as it meets the appropriate ratification requirements. So does this mean that hypothetically a supermajority can kick out a state? Has there ever been a country that kicked out a portion of its citizenry and told them to form their own country against the will of those kicked out? (not talking about ethnic cleanings/whatnot). UK/English/Scottish/Welsh devolution kinda counts but in that case the quasi-separation was mutual. ---
**Author:** ![VunderBob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/839c29/32.png) [@VunderBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VunderBob)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-ever-kicked-out-forced-independence-upon-part-of-its-territory-people/507638/2 "2009-08-25T16:00:35Z")
The amicable divorce of Czecheslovakia comes to mind, but both sides were willing. ---
**Author:** ![DSYoungEsq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c6cbf5/32.png) [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-ever-kicked-out-forced-independence-upon-part-of-its-territory-people/507638/3 "2009-08-25T16:04:28Z")
Sadly, we have not managed yet to create the country of Oklahansas. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-ever-kicked-out-forced-independence-upon-part-of-its-territory-people/507638/4 "2009-08-25T16:07:43Z")
At one point, the government of Belarus made overtures to rejoin Russia, but Russia thought it would be better if they just stayed friends. ---
**Author:** ![Never\_Say\_Dice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ee59a6/32.png) [@Never\_Say\_Dice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Never_Say_Dice)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-ever-kicked-out-forced-independence-upon-part-of-its-territory-people/507638/5 "2009-08-25T16:10:11Z")
The Balkans are notorious for discharging minorities, but not their land. Haiti and Cyprus have had one side declare the other side a separate country. But I guess that’s not quite your definition. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-ever-kicked-out-forced-independence-upon-part-of-its-territory-people/507638/6 "2009-08-25T16:12:51Z")
During the height of apartheid, South Africa declared a couple of enclaves within the country independent, so as to be able to say “not our problem”. ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/dbc845/32.png) [@Michael\_of\_Lucan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Michael_of_Lucan)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-ever-kicked-out-forced-independence-upon-part-of-its-territory-people/507638/7 "2009-08-25T16:25:43Z")
Well, if you can keep a secret, let me tell about the Am-r-cans. You see, in the 1600’s and 1700’s, we Europeans had a problem with a lot of low class people hanging round the place. Talked funny, and couldn’t spell properly. So, we persuaded them to ship over the Atlantic. Told them they were going to colonise a New World. The Golgafrinchans, sorry, the Am-r-cans fell for it, hook line and sinker, and left Europe in their thousands. Then in the 1770’s, we managed to con them into forming their own con-federation, and got them out of our way completely. Pretending to fight them was the hardest part, but they wouldn’t believe us if we didn’t object a bit. The British kindly offered the use of their army, as they still had some Golgafrinchans to use up. The whole thing worked pretty well. I don’t think they have guessed yet. But keep it a secret. Sshh… ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-ever-kicked-out-forced-independence-upon-part-of-its-territory-people/507638/8 "2009-08-25T16:30:18Z")
Before the 1982 Falklands War, it was widely thought that the British government wouldn’t particularly object if the islands wanted to either become independent or become part of Argentina by mutual consent. The Argentine junta got grabby, though, and now it’s more unlikely than ever that it’ll happen. ---
**Author:** ![Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Kimmy\_Gibbler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimmy_Gibbler)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-ever-kicked-out-forced-independence-upon-part-of-its-territory-people/507638/9 "2009-08-25T16:36:22Z")
> [@strqwert44](#): > > So I was wondering…under the US Constitution any amendment can be added on so long as it meets the appropriate ratification requirements. So does this mean that hypothetically a supermajority can kick out a state? Well, not just _any_ amendment. Under Article V of the United States Constitution: > [@](#): > > The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; **provided . . . that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.** (Emphasis added.) Because dissociating a state from the Union would seem to entail removing its delegation from Congress (and, thus, “its equal suffrage in the Senate”), no state can be thrown of the Union without its consent. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-ever-kicked-out-forced-independence-upon-part-of-its-territory-people/507638/10 "2009-08-25T16:40:32Z")
Would losing the ability to control outlying areas and abandoning them count? If so the Roman Empire would seem a candidate. ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-ever-kicked-out-forced-independence-upon-part-of-its-territory-people/507638/11 "2009-08-25T16:43:19Z")
> [@strqwert44](#): > > As a “fill-in-the-blank political persuasion” Is that the kind that really likes write-in paper ballots? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-ever-kicked-out-forced-independence-upon-part-of-its-territory-people/507638/12 "2009-08-25T16:45:12Z")
When the USSR broke up I think some of the countries like Uzbekistan may not have minded staying with Russia but I don’t think they were given the option. Some of them like Latvia were thrilled to be on their own. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-ever-kicked-out-forced-independence-upon-part-of-its-territory-people/507638/13 "2009-08-25T16:46:45Z")
Bavaria might get that treatment soon. ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-ever-kicked-out-forced-independence-upon-part-of-its-territory-people/507638/14 "2009-08-25T18:04:11Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > During the height of apartheid, South Africa declared a couple of enclaves within the country independent, so as to be able to say “not our problem”. I came in here to mention the [“Bantustans”](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bantustan) as well. In addition to several other partially autonomous “homelands”, South Africa declared four regions to be independent: [Transkei](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transkei), [Venda](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venda), [Bophuthatswana](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bophuthatswana), and [Ciskei](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciskei). No country other than South Africa ever recognized these regions as independent, though. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-ever-kicked-out-forced-independence-upon-part-of-its-territory-people/507638/15 "2009-08-25T19:01:46Z")
Ah, thanks for the links. I had tried to look up Lesotho, but it turns out that they have their own history, and were not one of the Bantustans. I couldn’t remember any of the others. ---
**Author:** ![EdwardLost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@EdwardLost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EdwardLost)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-ever-kicked-out-forced-independence-upon-part-of-its-territory-people/507638/16 "2009-08-25T19:36:41Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > Bavaria might get that treatment soon. What’s the story there? ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-ever-kicked-out-forced-independence-upon-part-of-its-territory-people/507638/17 "2009-08-25T23:15:51Z")
Singapore was expelled from Malaysia in 1965. There was a lot of political conflict between the city and the rest of the country in the few years they were together, but the Singapore government didn’t want to declare itself independent. I believe I’ve even read that its president was in tears when he had to declare the independence of the city. ---
**Author:** ![teela\_brown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d9b06d/32.png) [@teela\_brown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/teela_brown)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-ever-kicked-out-forced-independence-upon-part-of-its-territory-people/507638/18 "2009-08-25T23:39:01Z")
All I know about it was what I saw in the movie _Gandhi_, but wasn’t Pakistan formed because India kicked out its Muslim population and had them form their own country? ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-ever-kicked-out-forced-independence-upon-part-of-its-territory-people/507638/19 "2009-08-25T23:58:38Z")
Also the Acadians, kicked out of Canada, the descendants of whom we call Cajun: [Expulsion of the Acadians - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Expulsion) (Everything you need to know you can learn by watching _Good Eats_). ---
**Author:** ![coremelt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/4491bb/32.png) [@coremelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coremelt)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-ever-kicked-out-forced-independence-upon-part-of-its-territory-people/507638/20 "2009-08-26T00:16:23Z")
> [@teela\_brown](#): > > All I know about it was what I saw in the movie _Gandhi_, but wasn’t Pakistan formed because India kicked out its Muslim population and had them form their own country? No, there was a huge amount of resistance to the splitting off of east and west pakistan. Gandhi was against the partition of India. > **[Partition of India](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India)** > > The partition of India in 1947 was the division of British India\[a\] into two independent dominion states, the Union of India and Dominion of Pakistan. The Union of India is today the Republic of India, and the Dominion of Pakistan is the Islamic Republic of Pakistan and the People's Republic of Bangladesh. The partition involved the division of two provinces, Bengal and the Punjab, based on district-wide non-Muslim (mostly Hindu and Sikh) or Muslim majorities. It also involved the division of... [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-ever-kicked-out-forced-independence-upon-part-of-its-territory-people/507638.md?page=2)