# Has any country that banned abortion ever given women equal rights? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 17, 2016, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-that-banned-abortion-ever-given-women-equal-rights/766159 "2016-09-17T14:55:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-that-banned-abortion-ever-given-women-equal-rights/766159/1 "2016-09-17T14:55:55Z")
Near as I can tell, the answer is a resounding “Absolutely not.” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-that-banned-abortion-ever-given-women-equal-rights/766159/2 "2016-09-17T15:01:19Z")
What do you include in the term “equal rights”? ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-that-banned-abortion-ever-given-women-equal-rights/766159/3 "2016-09-17T15:13:48Z")
Ireland would probably be the closest. ---
**Author:** ![Flyer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/flyer/32/7298_2.png) [@Flyer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flyer)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-that-banned-abortion-ever-given-women-equal-rights/766159/4 "2016-09-17T15:22:39Z")
The question contains a false premise. And not just any false premise, but a staggeringly-big one. There is no mechanism by which any man-made entity can **GIVE** anybody any rights. Our rights come from God. There is one thing, and one thing only, which government can do in the cause of freedom. And that is to **RECOGNIZE** the rights that mankind already has. Both sexes were created equal. And the question of allowing or not allowing abortion has absolutely nothing to do with equality. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-that-banned-abortion-ever-given-women-equal-rights/766159/5 "2016-09-17T15:28:18Z")
> [@Northern\_Piper](#): > > What do you include in the term “equal rights”? What he said. Majority at the same age? The right to vote? The right to own property? Divorce? The right to initiate divorce? SSM? You need to define equal rights before we can answer. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-that-banned-abortion-ever-given-women-equal-rights/766159/6 "2016-09-17T15:58:57Z")
And what do you mean by “banned abortion”? I don’t think there is any country on Earth which has banned all non-birth termination of pregnancies or anyone which permits a free for all (generally you need a licensed medical practitioner to perform them). ---
**Author:** ![Novelty\_Bobble](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Novelty\_Bobble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Novelty_Bobble)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-that-banned-abortion-ever-given-women-equal-rights/766159/7 "2016-09-17T16:12:59Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > The question contains a false premise. And not just any false premise, but a staggeringly-big one. > > There is no mechanism by which any man-made entity can **GIVE** anybody any rights. Our rights come from God. Total fail there I’m afraid. In order for that to have any meaning you’d have to first say which gods you are talking about, then show me evidence they are necessary, then show me the evidence of that existence. Then and only then can we discuss any rights he, she it or them may have bestowed on us. Rights are man-made, gods are man-made. You still have all you work ahead of you. I’d much prefer that religion played no part in the question of abortion, I suspect the only reason the OP has to ask the the question is due to the poison of religious dogma. In answer to the OP, probably Ireland but as the country grows ever more secular thankfully this hateful anomaly will be consigned to history’s rubbish bin. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-that-banned-abortion-ever-given-women-equal-rights/766159/8 "2016-09-17T16:13:37Z")
In the strictest sense, I don’t think there’s any country on Earth where men and women have exactly equal legal rights, and it’s hard to see just what form such equal rights could possibly take. For instance, does a woman have a right to take maternity leave from work? Does a man? Under what conditions? If the condition is “anyone, male or female, can take maternity leave if they’re pregnant”, is that an equal right or not? Is equal access to bathroom facilities a right? Well then, what does equal access mean? The same number of rooms, the same total number of appliances in those rooms, the same amount of floor space for both, the same expected wait time? ---
**Author:** ![Hector\_St\_Clare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/b5ac83/32.png) [@Hector\_St\_Clare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hector_St_Clare)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-that-banned-abortion-ever-given-women-equal-rights/766159/9 "2016-09-17T16:14:00Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > And what do you mean by “banned abortion”? I don’t think there is any country on Earth which has banned all non-birth termination of pregnancies or anyone which permits a free for all (generally you need a licensed medical practitioner to perform them). There are a handful of countries which do have a total and exceptionless abortion ban- Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Malta, the Dominican Republic and most recently the _de facto_ independent country of Abkhazia. Haiti and Honduras might, but I’ve seen conflicting claims about that. (I’m very strongly pro-life, but these bans go slightly farther than even I would). I think we need to know what the OP here means my ‘equal rights’ to answer this question. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-that-banned-abortion-ever-given-women-equal-rights/766159/10 "2016-09-17T16:23:13Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > Our rights come from God. Citation missing. Anyway this is factually untrue. All rights come from the people who grant them. People. Factually, people. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-that-banned-abortion-ever-given-women-equal-rights/766159/11 "2016-09-17T16:29:46Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > In the strictest sense, I don’t think there’s any country on Earth where men and women have exactly equal legal rights, and it’s hard to see just what form such equal rights could possibly take. For instance, does a woman have a right to take maternity leave from work? Does a man? Under what conditions? If the condition is “anyone, male or female, can take maternity leave if they’re pregnant”, is that an equal right or not? Is equal access to bathroom facilities a right? Well then, what does equal access mean? The same number of rooms, the same total number of appliances in those rooms, the same amount of floor space for both, the same expected wait time? Parental leave for both parents is a common thing, regardless of the genders of the parents. Have you really never heard of paternity leave? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-that-banned-abortion-ever-given-women-equal-rights/766159/12 "2016-09-17T16:32:05Z")
OK, then, under what conditions is parental leave offered? Is a deadbeat father who has nothing to do with the child after conception allowed leave? What about a deadbeat mother? There’s an inherent biological asymmetry there, and the laws as a result must also be asymmetric in some way. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-that-banned-abortion-ever-given-women-equal-rights/766159/13 "2016-09-17T16:34:29Z")
> [@Hector\_St\_Clare](#): > > There are a handful of countries which do have a total and exceptionless abortion ban- Chile, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Malta, the Dominican Republic and most recently the _de facto_ independent country of Abkhazia. Haiti and Honduras might, but I’ve seen conflicting claims about that. > > (I’m very strongly pro-life, but these bans go slightly farther than even I would). > > I think we need to know what the OP here means my ‘equal rights’ to answer this question. Reading up on Chile’s law, in practice an abortion to save a mothers life is permissible if the primary purpose was not to cause an abortion, but its a side effect. In other words, a doctor’s note. Which illustrates the main point of this “debate”, what the written law says and what the Judicial and medical authorities apply on the ground can be two very different things. The [Wiki article and its sources for instance](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_law#National_laws) by country gets the practical aspect of UK law, Indian, Pakistan and Bangladeshi dead wrong, even though they quote the text of the law properly and they also get the U.S wrong AFAIK (its not available on request there either). ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-that-banned-abortion-ever-given-women-equal-rights/766159/14 "2016-09-17T17:17:10Z")
Arguably, North Korea. It bans abortions and gives its male and female citizens equal rights in the sense that everyone has minimal rights. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-that-banned-abortion-ever-given-women-equal-rights/766159/15 "2016-09-17T17:23:17Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > OK, then, under what conditions is parental leave offered? Is a deadbeat father who has nothing to do with the child after conception allowed leave? What about a deadbeat mother? There’s an inherent biological asymmetry there, and the laws as a result must also be asymmetric in some way. It’s not a biological issue, it’s a social issue, and the reason for parental leave is to allow parents time to spend with their newborn child. That’s important for mothers and fathers. Not sure what deadbeat dads have to do with it at all, to be honest. Apart from the fact that paying them to stay at home with their kids along with the mother will vastly reduce the amount of them. Please remember that the US is one of only two countries in the world not to recognise the right to paid parental leave, and is literally worse than third world in this respect. ---
**Author:** ![Snnipe\_70E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5a626/32.png) [@Snnipe\_70E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snnipe_70E)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-that-banned-abortion-ever-given-women-equal-rights/766159/16 "2016-09-17T17:31:18Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Parental leave for both parents is a common thing, regardless of the genders of the parents. Have you really never heard of paternity leave? Ah but that is Paternity leave not maternity leave. ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-that-banned-abortion-ever-given-women-equal-rights/766159/17 "2016-09-17T17:48:26Z")
In New Zealand, women gained the right to vote in 1893, and the right to stand for Parliament in 1919. They had already gained the right to own land, pay rates and vote as ratepayers in local elections much earlier than that, so in most respects you could say that women had mostly equal rights under the law from 1919. Abortion was classed as a criminal offence (as per the English 1861 Offences Against the Person Act, and the NZ Crimes Act 1909) until 1974. The law currently requires 2 certifying medical practitioners and the procedure must be carried out in a licensed public hospital. So does New Zealand prior to 1974 qualify for the OP? Without on demand access to abortion would the OP consider that New Zealand still fits that qualification? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-that-banned-abortion-ever-given-women-equal-rights/766159/18 "2016-09-17T18:41:10Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > Ireland would probably be the closest. Why do you say Ireland? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-that-banned-abortion-ever-given-women-equal-rights/766159/19 "2016-09-17T18:43:54Z")
Isn’t this thread a tautology? If a country bans abortion, then people will say “They are treating women wrongly.” ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-that-banned-abortion-ever-given-women-equal-rights/766159/20 "2016-09-17T18:43:55Z")
> [@Flyer](#): > > The question contains a false premise. And not just any false premise, but a staggeringly-big one. > > There is no mechanism by which any man-made entity can **GIVE** anybody any rights. Our rights come from God. > > There is one thing, and one thing only, which government can do in the cause of freedom. And that is to **RECOGNIZE** the rights that mankind already has. > > Both sexes were created equal. And the question of allowing or not allowing abortion has absolutely nothing to do with equality. So is same-sex marriage a God-given right in your view? People is several countries now have the right to same-sex marriage. God-given right that has finally been recognised by those governments, or a right given by those governments? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-country-that-banned-abortion-ever-given-women-equal-rights/766159.md?page=2)