# Has any figure in human history 'failed forward' as much as trump has? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 1, 2021, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-figure-in-human-history-failed-forward-as-much-as-trump-has/934039 "2021-03-01T14:02:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-figure-in-human-history-failed-forward-as-much-as-trump-has/934039/1 "2021-03-01T14:02:59Z")
I racked my brain and could not think of anybody even close. trump, as we all know, failed often and spectacularly as a businessman, piling up a string of bankruptcies. Even bankrupting casinos somehow, which are designed to be moneymaking machines. Hardly any bank would lend to him. But he still manages to keep up a thin, faltering facade of being a successful businessman. Then, he’s handed ‘The Apprentice’, a TV show carefully crafted to play on the fiction of his shrewd businessman persona. His name recognition from the show arguably is the largest contributing factor to winning the presidency-- 4 years of which an objective analysis cannot come to any conclusion but failure. HIs malice was only exceeded by his incompetency. Other than appointing a lot of Federal judges and a few bits of conservative legislation, which wasn’t trumps doing anyway, his presidency is a string of either doing nothing, or abject failure. The blue wave in 2018 which was clearly a backlash to trump, and lost Repubs the House. The massive failure to fight Covid. Losing the presidency in 2020. Then Repubs losing the Senate which clearly was a result of trump interfering in the Georgia runoff. The riot, again clearly all trump. And yet, he still has his rabid following, and is fracturing and further destroying the Repub party. So, has anybody else’s life been anywhere near such a celebration of failure as trump? ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-figure-in-human-history-failed-forward-as-much-as-trump-has/934039/2 "2021-03-01T14:13:58Z")
L. Ron Hubbard, perhaps? I don’t want to go through his whole bio, but for him, the consequences of being a hack writer, incompetent naval officer, embezzler, quack psychologist, shitty husband and father, all seemed to flow into personal and financial success for the man. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-figure-in-human-history-failed-forward-as-much-as-trump-has/934039/3 "2021-03-01T14:22:47Z")
Yeah, L. Ron Hubbard’s a good contender. I don’t know a lot of detail about his life, but from what I do know he was a pretty odious person. Although, one can argue that Scientology, his quasi-religious cult, has been a big success, however insane and damaging to people its beliefs are. So is he really a successful failure, the way trump keeps failing at everything, yet keeps getting celebrated for it? Maybe my question should have been ‘has there ever been a con man so successful and yet with so little to back it up as trump’? ---
**Author:** ![Kimera757](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kimera757/32/3765_2.png) [@Kimera757](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimera757)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-figure-in-human-history-failed-forward-as-much-as-trump-has/934039/4 "2021-03-01T14:49:00Z")
> [@solost](#): > > Although, one can argue that Scientology, his quasi-religious cult, has been a big success, however insane and damaging to people its beliefs are. So is he really a successful failure, the way trump keeps failing at everything, yet keeps getting celebrated for it? I think Trump is more successful than Hubbard. He created a larger cult in a much shorter period of time. To be fair, social media didn’t exist in Hubbard’s day, fortunately! I am not sure if Scientology is successful at anything non-cult related except real estate, which ironically is one of Trump’s supposed strength, and suing people, also a Trump strength. I guess also messing with the IRS, but that’s not quite the same thing as running the country. (Dianetics was a very successful health fad for a while, but I’ve never read any suggestion that it was anything more than quack medicine.) ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-figure-in-human-history-failed-forward-as-much-as-trump-has/934039/5 "2021-03-01T15:02:02Z")
I’m the only one who saw ‘failed forward’ and ‘trump’ and thought, “Why yes, he does stand like a centaur…” ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-figure-in-human-history-failed-forward-as-much-as-trump-has/934039/6 "2021-03-01T15:22:34Z")
Some kings of Spain could qualify IMHO. > **[Charles II of Spain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_II_of_Spain)** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > Charles II of Spain (Spanish: Carlos II, 6 November 1661 – 1 November 1700), known as the Bewitched (Spanish: El Hechizado), was the last Habsburg ruler of the Spanish Empire. Best remembered for his physical disabilities and the War of the Spanish Succession that followed his death, Charles's reign has traditionally been viewed as one of managed decline. However, many of the issues Spain faced in this period were inherited from his predecessors... Charles [The II] suffered ill health throughout his life; from the moment he became king at the age of four in 1665, the succession was a prominent consideration in European politics. The historian [John Langdon-Davies](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Langdon-Davies) summarised this as follows: “Of no man is it more true to say that in his beginning was his end; from the day of his birth, they were waiting for his death”.[[1]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_II_of_Spain#cite_note-FOOTNOTELangdon-Davies19633-1) On the more capable side, but luckier that one of the happy Roman emperors, there is Charles the 5th, that had other ruling relatives die to make him one of the most powerful emperors in history. Only to fall apart later. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-figure-in-human-history-failed-forward-as-much-as-trump-has/934039/7 "2021-03-01T16:44:54Z")
Trump kinda shatters the whole Peter Principle thing eh. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-figure-in-human-history-failed-forward-as-much-as-trump-has/934039/8 "2021-03-01T16:50:32Z")
The Peter Principle involves a person getting promoted until they end up in a position they are unqualified for, then they stay there because they can no longer get promoted now that they no longer merit advancement. It does not account for a person who becomes successful through confidence schemes and fraud. Being able to bamboozle your way into power (as opposed to earning it through actual competence) has no limit aside from your ability to trick people (and chutzpah), and the gullibility of your marks. Really, the Peter Principle no longer becomes relevant. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-figure-in-human-history-failed-forward-as-much-as-trump-has/934039/9 "2021-03-01T16:51:37Z")
I think that you’d be hard pressed to find a combination of pinnacle of power and absolute incompetency. He ended up president of one of the historically most powerful nations on earth. ---
**Author:** ![WalterBishop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/aeb1de/32.png) [@WalterBishop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WalterBishop)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-figure-in-human-history-failed-forward-as-much-as-trump-has/934039/10 "2021-03-01T16:54:41Z")
> [@solost](#): > > I racked my brain and could not think of anybody even close. Nor could I. Hereditary monarchs only fail forward once. Trump’s failed forward about fifteen times and counting. ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-figure-in-human-history-failed-forward-as-much-as-trump-has/934039/11 "2021-03-01T17:15:21Z")
Hope it’s not too soon for something a little bit more lighthearted, but how about “Cosmo Kramer”? ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-figure-in-human-history-failed-forward-as-much-as-trump-has/934039/12 "2021-03-01T17:18:50Z")
Heh, I like it: ‘trump is the “Cosmo Kramer” of business and mean-spirited, xenophobic politics’. ---
**Author:** ![Crane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crane/32/3495_2.png) [@Crane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crane)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-figure-in-human-history-failed-forward-as-much-as-trump-has/934039/13 "2021-03-01T17:33:31Z")
**Has any figure in human history ‘failed forward’ as much as Trump?** Sure, **Reagan** - The disasters he caused combined with those that just happened on his watch have had greater lasting impact than Trump can even imagine: Reagan set the model for an imperial President Regan replaced Republican policy with an icon. Reagan created his own self funded military force in Central America Reagan gave voice to the ill defined concept of Conservatism Reagan spawned Limbaugh Reagan’s administration is among the most corrupt in US history Reagan contributed directly to the marine barracks disaster Reagan mismanaged wagging the dog in Grenada Reagonomics is the icon for failed policy Reagan intentionally made appointments to fail Reagan gave religious nut cases positions of responsibility - ie HUD, Interior Reagan marks the downturn of the US middle class Reagan’s amnesty gave hope to generations of immigrants Reagan created the pattern that Trump stumbled onto. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-figure-in-human-history-failed-forward-as-much-as-trump-has/934039/14 "2021-03-01T18:17:53Z")
> [@solost](#): > > Heh, I like it: ‘trump is the “Cosmo Kramer” of business and mean-spirited, xenophobic politics’. Now I’m imagining Trump sliding into a person’s house through their front door and raiding their refrigerator while babbling about fake news and election fraud and China Viruses. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-figure-in-human-history-failed-forward-as-much-as-trump-has/934039/15 "2021-03-01T19:42:51Z")
Don’t get me wrong, Reagan was a piece of shit, but a lot of what you describe are right wing successes. There was a competency to his evil that Trump lacks (thank Og). ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-figure-in-human-history-failed-forward-as-much-as-trump-has/934039/16 "2021-03-01T20:09:34Z")
@Crane may have been using a different definition of “failing forward” than the OP. But the OP may have been using a non-standard definition of “failing forward” in the first place. The explanations I’ve found online suggest that “failing forward” involves personal growth and learning from one’s failures (which involves a certain amount of humility and accepting one’s limitations—which does not sound very Trumpian to me). ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-figure-in-human-history-failed-forward-as-much-as-trump-has/934039/17 "2021-03-01T20:18:58Z")
Yeah, here, I’m taking it to mean an idiot loser able to go very far despite being an idiot loser. It helps that the GOP has been de-educating the white working class for generations and convincing them that competent government is a bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![solost](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/solost/32/11776_2.png) [@solost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/solost)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-figure-in-human-history-failed-forward-as-much-as-trump-has/934039/18 "2021-03-01T20:20:48Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > But the OP may have been using a non-standard definition of “failing forward” in the first place. The explanations I’ve found online suggest that “failing forward” involves personal growth and learning from one’s failures (which involves a certain amount of humility and accepting one’s limitations—which does not sound very Trumpian to me). Yes, I did not know ‘failing forward’ was an established expression that meant growing and learning from one’s mistakes, and clearly I definitely did not mean that when referring to trump. I meant “not only given second chances, given opportunities to gain further wealth and power, despite constant repeated failures.” ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-figure-in-human-history-failed-forward-as-much-as-trump-has/934039/19 "2021-03-01T20:21:28Z")
That’s called being white in America. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-figure-in-human-history-failed-forward-as-much-as-trump-has/934039/20 "2021-03-01T20:40:34Z")
Not sure about “failing forward” but I’ve always seen “failing upward” used to mean an abject failure of a person who nonetheless achieves personal or professional success despite their best (worst) efforts. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-figure-in-human-history-failed-forward-as-much-as-trump-has/934039.md?page=2)