# Has any mass killer been motivated by fame? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 16, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-mass-killer-been-motivated-by-fame/644195 "2012-12-16T16:50:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2012, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-mass-killer-been-motivated-by-fame/644195/1 "2012-12-16T16:50:27Z")
After the Sandy Hook shooting, a quote, falsely attributed to Morgan Freeman, claims that one reason these tragedies keep happening is that the media makes the killer famous. Has any killer claimed this? Hinkley said he “did it to impress Jodi Foster.” But I guess she is harder to impress than he thought. So has any mass shooter did this in a bid to be famous? (other than Nora Desdond, but that was a return) ---
**Author:** ![Rama](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ccd318/32.png) [@Rama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rama)\ **Post date:** [December 16, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-mass-killer-been-motivated-by-fame/644195/2 "2012-12-16T19:31:23Z")
Yes. [Robert A. Hawkins](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westroads_Mall_shooting)’s suicide note said ‘‘I just want to take a few pieces of shit with me… just think tho, I’m gonna be fuckin famous’’. Ofcourse it wasn’t the sole reason but it still had some value to him. I’m sure there are more but this was the first one that came to mind. ---
**Author:** ![Esox\_Lucius](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/848f3c/32.png) [@Esox\_Lucius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Esox_Lucius)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-mass-killer-been-motivated-by-fame/644195/3 "2012-12-17T03:38:29Z")
Jared Loughner might fall into that category, although I don’t know if it was fame he wanted or simply recognition. For days afterwards, he was described as just sitting in his cell smiling. My impression was that he was feeling quite satisfied with himself for finally being, in his twisted mind, relevant because people had finally taken notice of him. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 5:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-mass-killer-been-motivated-by-fame/644195/4 "2012-12-17T05:48:13Z")
[The BKT killer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Rader)sent the police a taunting message on a floppy disc. There has to be some measure of attention seeking in that. > [@](#): > > By 2004, the investigation of the BTK Killer had gone cold. Then, Rader sent a letter to the police, claiming responsibility for a killing that had previously not been attributed to him. DNA collected from under the fingernails of that victim provided police with previously unknown evidence. They then began DNA testing hundreds of men in an effort to find the serial killer.[14] Altogether, over 1300 DNA samples were taken.[15] > > The police corresponded with the BTK Killer (Rader) in an effort to gain his confidence. Then, in one of his communications with police, Rader asked them if it were possible to trace information from floppy disks. The police department replied that there was no way of knowing on what computer such a disk had been used. Rader then sent his message and floppy to the police department, which quickly checked the metadata of the Microsoft Word document. In the metadata, they found that the document had been made by a man who called himself Dennis. They also found a link to the Lutheran Church. When the police searched on the Internet for “Lutheran Church Wichita Dennis,” they found his family name and were able to identify a suspect: Dennis Rader, a Lutheran Deacon. The police also knew BTK owned a black Jeep Cherokee. When investigators drove by Rader’s house they noticed a black Jeep Cherokee parked outside.[16] ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-mass-killer-been-motivated-by-fame/644195/5 "2012-12-17T17:15:21Z")
[David Berkowitz](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Berkowitz), the “Son of Sam” wrtoe letters to the police and even newspaper columnist Jimmy Breslin taunting them. However Berkowitz, among other things, claimed he had been ordered to kill by a neighbor’s dog, that he was a member of a Satanic cult, and at times admitted, then denied he was responsible for the murders of several victims, so it’s a little hard to figure out what his exact motivations were. ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-mass-killer-been-motivated-by-fame/644195/6 "2012-12-17T18:09:48Z")
Can’t seem to find it now, but I recall reading how the Port Arthur mass murderer Martin Bryant kept eagerly asking - right after the killing spree - how many did he manage to kill, as if going for a record. Sounds like seeking fame to me. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-mass-killer-been-motivated-by-fame/644195/7 "2012-12-17T18:15:40Z")
The Zodiac Killer seemed to enjoy fame, though not enough to ever let us know who he was for sure. It’s hard to tell what their real intentions are. Mark David Chapman was all sorts of nuts when he kill John Lennon. Maybe underneath it all he just wanted to be famous. Even if one of these psychos says they did it for fame it would be hard to know if that was the real reason. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-mass-killer-been-motivated-by-fame/644195/8 "2012-12-17T18:16:40Z")
> [@astro](#): > > [The BKT killer](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Rader)sent the police a taunting message on a floppy disc. There has to be some measure of attention seeking in that. I think BTK would almost certainly be classified as a serial killer, not a mass killer, and apparently there is a lot of difference in the motivation and MO between the two types of people… ---
**Author:** ![pravnik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/8edcca/32.png) [@pravnik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pravnik)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2012, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-mass-killer-been-motivated-by-fame/644195/9 "2012-12-17T18:48:40Z")
In Harris and Klebold’s so-called basement tapes, they discuss how famous they will be and who will direct the movie about their story. I don’t know if you’d exactly say they were motivated by fame, it seems more like they thought fame would be the natural by-product of the exalted status they imagined that they would enjoy. > [@](#): > > _They talk about how they want movies to be made about their story. Eric says he wants the film to have “a lot of foreshadowing and dramatic irony”. He mentions a poem he wrote where he imagined himself as a bullet._ > > KLEBOLD: Directors will be fighting over this story. I know we’re gonna have followers because we’re so fucking God-like. We’re not exactly human – we have human bodies but we’ve evolved into one step above you, fucking human shit. We actually have fucking self-awareness. > > _The boys speculate whether Steven Spelberg or Quentin Tarantino should direct the film._ [Transcripts of “The Basement Tapes” of Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold](http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Transcripts_of_%22The_Basement_Tapes%22_of_Eric_Harris_and_Dylan_Klebold) As it turns out, the first movie based on their story was directed by [Gus Van Sant](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elephant_(2003_film)), and he wrote in a sex scene between their characters. ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 5:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-mass-killer-been-motivated-by-fame/644195/10 "2012-12-18T17:20:50Z")
> [@Esox\_Lucius](#): > > Jared Loughner might fall into that category, although I don’t know if it was fame he wanted or simply recognition. For days afterwards, he was described as just sitting in his cell smiling. My impression was that he was feeling quite satisfied with himself for finally being, in his twisted mind, relevant because people had finally taken notice of him. It might not be fame _per se_, but recognition seems to be a pretty common motive by these guys. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-mass-killer-been-motivated-by-fame/644195/11 "2012-12-18T17:26:39Z")
I’m not sure. I’ll admit for a time in the late 90s to being really interested in deviant psychology (my home library still contains several books on serial killers and mass murderers, some actually decent and some barely better than trashy pulp non-fiction), and I am not immediately aware of any notable case where the primary motivation was fame. Guys like BTK for example got excitement out of taunting police and getting in the news, but it appears the primary motivation was the enjoyment they got out of the actual killing (which itself is a manifestation of rare combinations of mental / developmental problems.) Spree killers usually seem to be either extremely depressed and suicidal and/or mentally ill so to me it is unlikely fame is their prime motivator. If you count organized terrorist acts as spree killing, then those people usually are not either of the above and their motivation is at least a degree of notoriety for their cause and the act itself, if not always for themselves. Terrorism only “works” if the act gets attention and frightens people. ---
**Author:** ![bibliophage](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bibliophage/32/7615_2.png) [@bibliophage](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bibliophage)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-mass-killer-been-motivated-by-fame/644195/12 "2012-12-18T21:10:01Z")
As an aside, fame gained on purpose by committing a crime is sometimes called Herostratic fame, after the ancient Greek arsonist [Herostratus](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herostratus), who burned down the temple of Artemis for that reason. ---
**Author:** ![the\_diego](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7bcc69/32.png) [@the\_diego](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/the_diego)\ **Post date:** [December 18, 2012, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-mass-killer-been-motivated-by-fame/644195/13 "2012-12-18T23:31:25Z")
When I saw the title, I thought “too easy to answer” and would have said TERRORISM. But since the talk favors non-politically motivated killings, I remember that gang-related mass killing (several perps but organized) that happened in San Francisco back in the 80s. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-mass-killer-been-motivated-by-fame/644195/14 "2012-12-19T01:24:24Z")
Ted Kaczynski didn’t admit who he was, but I’ve seen analysts that claim he was jealous of the Oklahamo city bomber(McVeigh), prompting him to get his manifesto published in the paper. Looks like the letter was sent to Times just a few days after McVeigh’s bombing. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-mass-killer-been-motivated-by-fame/644195/15 "2012-12-19T21:11:20Z")
One thing that still pisses me off is Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh was executed on June 11, 2001 thinking he would be remembered as the world’s greatest terrorist. I wish he could have lived four months longer–long enough to see 9/11 and realize that he was chickenshit.