# Has any woman's hand in marriage ever been offered as a prize in a contest? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 22, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-womans-hand-in-marriage-ever-been-offered-as-a-prize-in-a-contest/558044 "2010-10-22T21:42:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-womans-hand-in-marriage-ever-been-offered-as-a-prize-in-a-contest/558044/1 "2010-10-22T21:42:17Z")
It happens so often in folklore and fairy tales and even classical mythology – the king offers his daughter to the man who can slay a dragon or win a footrace or something – but has that ever happened in real life? ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2010, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-womans-hand-in-marriage-ever-been-offered-as-a-prize-in-a-contest/558044/2 "2010-10-22T22:02:51Z")
Maybe not what you’re looking for, but there was the game show, _[Who Wants to Marry a Multi-Millionaire?](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Wants_to_Marry_a_Multi-Millionaire%3F)_ some years ago. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-womans-hand-in-marriage-ever-been-offered-as-a-prize-in-a-contest/558044/3 "2010-10-23T02:38:33Z")
Woman, man, what’s the difference, am I right? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-womans-hand-in-marriage-ever-been-offered-as-a-prize-in-a-contest/558044/4 "2010-10-23T02:43:45Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Woman, man, what’s the difference, am I right? It’s rarely a man in the folklore, for some reason. ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-womans-hand-in-marriage-ever-been-offered-as-a-prize-in-a-contest/558044/5 "2010-10-23T02:57:42Z")
Isn’t that the premise for shows like “The Bachlorette”/“The bachelor”? Isn’t it pretty much a contest to get the money and marry the girl and divorce the girl? ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-womans-hand-in-marriage-ever-been-offered-as-a-prize-in-a-contest/558044/6 "2010-10-23T02:57:52Z")
Mayhap the females of our species emit a more alluring odor to nefarious dragonkin. ---
**Author:** ![naita](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naita/32/5862_2.png) [@naita](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/naita)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 9:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-womans-hand-in-marriage-ever-been-offered-as-a-prize-in-a-contest/558044/7 "2010-10-23T09:11:29Z")
I’m thinking that in the real world, if a daughter is valued so little she can be risked as a prize in a contest, it wouldn’t be considered an honor to win her. The only situation I can really imagine having happened some time in history is the version where the king boasts of being so good at something no one can best him. I can see a drunk petty king at some point in time saying “I’ll marry my daughter to the man who’s a better wrestler than me.” On the other hand I think being the man who won would be risky. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-womans-hand-in-marriage-ever-been-offered-as-a-prize-in-a-contest/558044/8 "2010-10-23T09:44:28Z")
British glamour model [Jodie Marsh](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jodie_Marsh)’s hand in marriage was the “prize” in a televised MTV competition. Marsh selected a man named Matt Peacock as the winner. It was discovered after the wedding that, unbeknownst to the audience, producers, and sponsors, Marsh and Peacock had already been dating since before the show. Marsh then admitted that the whole thing was a sham to make her money. ---
**Author:** ![falcotron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3ab097/32.png) [@falcotron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/falcotron)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 9:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-womans-hand-in-marriage-ever-been-offered-as-a-prize-in-a-contest/558044/9 "2010-10-23T09:56:31Z")
> [@naita](#): > > I’m thinking that in the real world, if a daughter is valued so little she can be risked as a prize in a contest, it wouldn’t be considered an honor to win her. Depends on how stratified the society was. Something that’s of little value to a King could still be of huge value to a lowly knight. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-womans-hand-in-marriage-ever-been-offered-as-a-prize-in-a-contest/558044/10 "2010-10-23T11:43:30Z")
Was it not common for the apprentice to marry the master’s daughter? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-womans-hand-in-marriage-ever-been-offered-as-a-prize-in-a-contest/558044/11 "2010-10-23T17:59:35Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > Was it not common for the apprentice to marry the master’s daughter? [Sometimes.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industry_and_Idleness) Not exactly a contest (unless the master had more than one apprentice), just a way of keeping the family/business going on familiar terms. An apprentice would live in his master’s house and grow up with the daughter, if there was one, so, by the time his indentures expired, everybody would know everybody pretty well, and master and daughter would have a pretty good idea of whether the apprentice would make a good husband. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-womans-hand-in-marriage-ever-been-offered-as-a-prize-in-a-contest/558044/12 "2010-10-23T18:10:23Z")
> [@](#): > > A Spaniard and a German both loved the daughter of Maximilian II, but the emperor did not want to risk their lives in a conventional duel. Instead he promised the girl’s hand to whichever man could wrestle his opponent into a bag. > > “The two gentlemen expressed their willingness to engage in even so ridiculous a contest for so superior a prize, and fought in the presence of the whole court, the contest lasting more than an hour, the Spaniard finally yielding, having been put fairly into the bag by the German, Baron Eberhard, who took it and its Castilian contents upon his back, and very gallantly laid them at the feet of the young lady, to whom he was married the following day. This is the only duel or tournament of the kind on record.” From the Futility Closet web site. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-womans-hand-in-marriage-ever-been-offered-as-a-prize-in-a-contest/558044/13 "2010-10-23T19:21:57Z")
I remember that when Britain was infested with Rolf Harrises, Bill Oddie, Greame Garden, and Tim Brooke-Taylor got rid of them, saving the Empire. And Tim got to marry Prince Charles as his share of the reward (the others received OBE’s). ---
**Author:** ![Randy\_Seltzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ee7513/32.png) [@Randy\_Seltzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Randy_Seltzer)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-womans-hand-in-marriage-ever-been-offered-as-a-prize-in-a-contest/558044/14 "2010-10-23T19:57:27Z")
> [@engineer\_comp\_geek](#): > > From the Futility Closet web site. That seems a little dubious. The website is quoting from an 1884 book on dueling: The field of honor: being a complete and comprehensive history of duelling By Benjamin Cummings Truman. [Link to Google books version](http://books.google.com/books?id=dkJIAAAAIAAJ&dq=The%20field%20of%20honor&pg=PA3#v=onepage&q&f=false). The complete account of the event: > [@](#): > > Two gentlemen (one a Spaniard and the other a German) who had been recommended, by their birth and services, to the Emperor Maximilian II., both fell in love with, and paid court to, the fair Helène, the Emperor’s daughter, Scharfequinn, whom each sought in marriage. After a long delay Maximilian one day informed the two lovers that, esteeming them equally and not being able to bestow a preference, he should leave it to the force and address of the claimants to decide the question. He did not mean, however, to risk the loss of the one or the other, or perhaps of both, and could not, therefore, permit them to encounter with offensive weapons; but had ordered a large bag to be produced, and had decreed that whichever succeeded in putting his rival into this bag should obtain the hand of his daughter. The two gentlemen expressed their willingness to engage in even so ridiculous a contest for so superior a prize, and fought in the presence of the whole court, the contest lasting more than an hour, the Spaniard finally yielding having been put fairly into the bag by the German, Baron Eberhard, who took it and its Castilian contents upon his back and very gallantly laid them at the feet of the young lady, to whom he was married the following day. This is the only duel or tournament of the kind on record. But [Emperor Maximilian II](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_II,_Holy_Roman_Emperor) did not have any daughters named Helène. The closest approximation of that name is his daughter Eleanor, who was only seven years old when Maximilian died, and who herself died when she was only twelve. Of his other daughters: Anna married Philip II of Spain in an extremely political marriage; Elisabeth married Charles IX of France, again, after extensive political negotiations; Margaret was a nun; Marie I died in infancy and Marie II also died an infant. Now, if the story is actually talking about [Maximilian II of Bavaria](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilian_II_of_Bavaria) (which it probably isn’t because he wasn’t an “Emperor”), it still doesn’t work, because he had no daughters. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-womans-hand-in-marriage-ever-been-offered-as-a-prize-in-a-contest/558044/15 "2010-10-23T21:21:03Z")
I don’t know of a case but I would guess that if it did happen it was probably in a polygamous country where 1- When you’ve got dozens of children, there’s a few to spare 2- Women aren’t that valued as a general rule 3- The field is open to married men as well. The closest monogamous example I can think of would be the Empress Zoe of Constantinople. Her paternal uncle, Basil II (a great warrior) had no children and her father, Constantine VIII, had only her and her sister (no sons- at least not legitimate). He betrothed her to the Holy Roman Emperor Otto III when she was approximately 20-25 years old at the time, a ripe old age for a first marriage, but had the marriage been fulfilled and produced capable heirs would have changed history and given a really good start on reuniting the Roman Empire, but, alas, he died days before the wedding was to take place and she was sent back to Byzantium. That’s not the wedding where she was dangled as prize though. After coming home to the royal palace she basically went to her (admittedly very nice) room for the next 20+ years as Daddy looked to find somebody good for his little princess (or technically his little Porphrogenita). He had kept her and her younger sister Theodora unmarried largely because whoever married them would be heir to the throne- they would reign by virtue of their wife- and Byzantine death certificates generally just had one line for “NEXT OF KIN/CAUSE OF DEATH \_\_\_\_\_\_\_”. (Costa & Basi’s mom had been a real piece of work with her husbands over this issue.) So when Constantine 8 finally accepted he was dying he knew he needed a successor, and that’s when he began reviewing all manner of suitable candidates for “Who Wants to Be the Next Emperor?”, with the winner to marry his now 45-50 year old daughter. Married men were eligible to enter so long as they divorced their wife and married Zoe, whose odds of having a healthy child were between non-existent and not-gonna-happen, but then there was a second daughter that would postpone that issue. The man chosen by Basil and his advisors was a general, Romanus Diogenes, who was old and happily married but divorced his wife (which he did not want to do at all) and married Zoe. It wasn’t happy since once Basil died and he was crowned he pretty much locked Zoe up in a convent within the palace grounds and went back to living with his (ex) wife. She had other plans though, seducing a or getting seduced by a teenaged studmuffin (the kid brother of Romanus’s eunuch and right-hand man). Soon Romanus had a little accident swimming and the Patriarch was summoned for what he assumed was the last rights, but instead was a wedding- this time she was the host of the game show and it was called “Empress Cougar Says Wha…?!”. Fascinating chapter and from there it only gets way more complicated, and needless to say there was no Happily Ever After, but the choice of a successor to Constantine VIII (a successor who had to marry his daughter) was the closest I can think of to the OP. Eventually after Studmuffin (Michael IV) proved a bust and died (of, probably, natural causes) she said “Next!” and let the advisors play “Who wants to marry an even older dustier muffined Empress [but at least with a glint in her eye from a few happy months]?”, this time going with Constantine IX, a decent enough ruler; she pretty much voluntarily went back to her convent suite and appeared with him only on state occasions and as necessary. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-womans-hand-in-marriage-ever-been-offered-as-a-prize-in-a-contest/558044/16 "2010-10-23T22:58:14Z")
Aren’t most cultures with a “[bride price](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bride_price)” essentially a bidding contest between families or suitors if your have a desirable girl to marry off? ---
**Author:** ![code\_grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f4b2a3/32.png) [@code\_grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/code_grey)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2010, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-womans-hand-in-marriage-ever-been-offered-as-a-prize-in-a-contest/558044/17 "2010-10-23T23:05:33Z")
perhaps a more likely alternative to a “contest” would be “surviving winner takes all”. Let’s say if several nobles are the most likely candidates to marry the daughter of a higher level tribal chief or noble, then in time of war (against a dragon 🙂 ) chances are that the guy to get the girl will at the very least be the one who survived and won some sort of a victory. The ones who did not come back or came back with half their soldiers dead and no gain for the loss might get their social status undermined sufficiently as to not make them husband material. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-womans-hand-in-marriage-ever-been-offered-as-a-prize-in-a-contest/558044/18 "2010-10-24T01:34:23Z")
> [@naita](#): > > I’m thinking that in the real world, if a daughter is valued so little she can be risked as a prize in a contest, it wouldn’t be considered an honor to win her. > [@falcotron](#): > > Depends on how stratified the society was. Something that’s of little value to a King could still be of huge value to a lowly knight. Or, it could just be that the person is more valuable as a wife than as a daughter. Plus, the contest could somehow be to prove the person’s worthiness of marrying their daughter. For example, if it’s the guy who beats everyone else in a fight, then it’s likely he’s going to be the best person to protect the daughter. And the option of her not getting married at all is most likely missing. ---
**Author:** ![Cinnamon\_Imp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/58956e/32.png) [@Cinnamon\_Imp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cinnamon_Imp)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-womans-hand-in-marriage-ever-been-offered-as-a-prize-in-a-contest/558044/19 "2010-10-24T07:15:42Z")
[These two](http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-385573/Radio-competition-newly-weds-split.html) won each other’s hands in marriage in a competition. It didn’t work out too well though. ---
**Author:** ![si\_blakely](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d9b06d/32.png) [@si\_blakely](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/si_blakely)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2010, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-womans-hand-in-marriage-ever-been-offered-as-a-prize-in-a-contest/558044/20 "2010-10-24T14:20:48Z")
It has been more successful in NZ - [Two Strangers and a Wedding](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Strangers_and_a_Wedding). Si [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-any-womans-hand-in-marriage-ever-been-offered-as-a-prize-in-a-contest/558044.md?page=2)