# Has anybody ever tried metric time measurement? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 10, 2000, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anybody-ever-tried-metric-time-measurement/10233 "2000-04-10T20:11:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![m3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@m3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/m3)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2000, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anybody-ever-tried-metric-time-measurement/10233/21 "2000-04-11T15:32:00Z")
I checked out Swatch time. Seems pretty similar to the millidays concept presented here. It goes one step further and proposes “internet time” where there are no time zones and consequently its the same time all over the world. Personally I liked the time zone idea since it gave me an idea of whether of not I would be waking someone up if I called. Millidays is kind of neat for every day use since it keeps days as a unit. The problem is that you can’t expand it to the year in a metrical manner. An improvement in certain ways, but still not quite what I’m after. I think the only truly metrical use of time shouldn’t be based on earth specific phonomena but upon events that are meaningful everywhere. On a side note: I don’t think that the choice of a meter was all that intelligent either. I think they just rationalized things till they came up with something pretty close to a yard. If we had a meaningful metrical unit of time then maybe we could use the light “second” and divide it up till it was small enough to use. ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2000, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anybody-ever-tried-metric-time-measurement/10233/22 "2000-04-11T16:23:00Z")
> [@](#): > > It’s interesting that sdimbert mentioned Heinlein stories. Well, we can blame my screen name for that… > [@](#): > > PS - Tanstaafl, which did you like more, Stranger or Time Enough? Neither were my favorites but I liked _Time Enough for Love_ the better of the two. My personal favorite is _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_ (obviously). tanstaafl (there ain’t no such thing as a free lunch) * * * “Sometimes I think the web is just a big plot to keep people like me away from normal society.” — Dilbert ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2000, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anybody-ever-tried-metric-time-measurement/10233/23 "2000-04-11T18:14:00Z")
**sdimbert** : I agree with **tanstaafl**. _Harsh Mistress_ is his best. But I’m surprised there isn’t a rebuttal from those who prefer _Podkane of Mars_ (repressed shudder) What I’d like to see is a calender that starts every month on Monday. So I would know what day of the week any date will fall on more easily. Also I’d like to see the Sunday/Monday start of the week resolved.(in favor of Monday, obviously) Sorry - this doesn’t really speak to the OP, but that’s what I’m getting known for. Does this bother posters terribly? * * * ## Just putting my 2sense in. _Tyranny_,\* like Hell\*,\* is not easily conquered\*. -Thomas Paine (fugitive slave catcher) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2000, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anybody-ever-tried-metric-time-measurement/10233/24 "2000-04-11T19:49:00Z")
Well, there is what’s usually regarded as a fundamental time scale in physics… If you take G (the gravitational constant), hbar (Planck’s constant), and c (the speed of light), and toss them all into a hat and shake well\*, you can get a time that’s called the Planck time, t\_p = 5.39\*10^-44 seconds… Not too useful, as a basis of a calender. Probably, any eventual “logical” time system that we come up with for, say, interplanetary spaceships will be based on the second, because that’s what most folks (physicists included) are most familiar with. _More precisely, t\_p = sqrt(G_hbar/c^5) * * * “There are only two things that are infinite: The Universe, and human stupidity-- and I’m not sure about the Universe” –A. Einstein ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2000, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anybody-ever-tried-metric-time-measurement/10233/25 "2000-04-11T19:51:00Z")
BTW, on the hijack, _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_ is a good one, but I personally preferred _The Door into Summer_. I guess I’m just a sucker for saccharine happy endings. * * * “There are only two things that are infinite: The Universe, and human stupidity-- and I’m not sure about the Universe” –A. Einstein ---
**Author:** ![tanstaafl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ba8739/32.png) [@tanstaafl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tanstaafl)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2000, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anybody-ever-tried-metric-time-measurement/10233/26 "2000-04-11T20:05:00Z")
> [@](#): > > But I’m surprised there isn’t a rebuttal from those who prefer Podkane of Mars (repressed shudder) There are people who like _Podkane…_? Well, I suppose it’s better than _The Number of the Breast_ err… _Beast_. OTOH, I know someone who started their own consulting business and named it “Podkayne Systems”. I think he just liked the name though. * * * “Sometimes I think the web is just a big plot to keep people like me away from normal society.” — Dilbert ---
**Author:** ![sdimbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdimbert/32/20204_2.png) [@sdimbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdimbert)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2000, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anybody-ever-tried-metric-time-measurement/10233/27 "2000-04-11T20:40:00Z")
_I plan on dipping into a hijack and steering it back on track. Here goes…_ **tanstaafl:** > [@](#): > > Neither were my favorites but I liked _Time Enough for Love_ the better of the two. My personal favorite is _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_ (obviously). **2sense:** > [@](#): > > I agree with tanstaafl. _Harsh Mistress_ is his best. But I’m surprised there isn’t a rebuttal from those who prefer _Podkane_ (sic) _of Mars_ (repressed shudder) **chronos:** > [@](#): > > BTW, on the hijack, _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_ is a good one, but I personally preferred _The Door into Summer_. I guess I’m just a sucker for saccharine happy endings. **tanstaafl** > [@](#): > > There are people who like _Podkane_…(sic)? Well, I suppose it’s better than The Number of the Breast err… Beast. I suppose that it is not surprising to find a bunch of Heinlein Fans in a Physics Thread on a GenKnowledge (Smart People) Message Board. So far we have a short list of Heinleinian Favorites: [ul][li]_Time Enough For Love_[/li][li]_The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_[/li][li]_The Door Into Summer_[/ul][/li]and two **not** favorites: [ul][li]_Podkayne of Mars_[/li][li]_The Number of the Beast_[/ul][/li] I am _ **not** _ going to enter the debate here (let me just say that _Time Enough for Love_ is, far and away, his best work)(oh, I guess I did enter, didn’t I? :cool 🙂 The way I plan on dragging this digression back to the OP is by pointing out, in _TEFL_, Heinlein’s characters make reference to two **different** calendars. One is the _Gregorian_ and the other is…? I don’t remember. My dog-eared copy is at home and I am not. Can anyone help out? I’m pretty sure that this other calendar is metric in nature - doesn’t it make sense that the Howard Families would use a logical, metric calendar? _(Thanks for enduring!)_ ---
**Author:** ![sdimbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdimbert/32/20204_2.png) [@sdimbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdimbert)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2000, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anybody-ever-tried-metric-time-measurement/10233/28 "2000-04-11T20:46:00Z")
BTW, I checked spelling and stuff at [The Official #Heinlein FAQ](http://www.smart.net/~kaz/heinlein/heinleinfaq.html). I’m finished now. I promise. ---
**Author:** ![raoulortega](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/278dde/32.png) [@raoulortega](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raoulortega)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2000, 10:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anybody-ever-tried-metric-time-measurement/10233/29 "2000-04-11T22:35:00Z")
AHunter3 \>I “invented” millidays in 1981 You are a few centuries too late. (Posted on Julian Day 2451646.4827) ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2000, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anybody-ever-tried-metric-time-measurement/10233/30 "2000-04-11T22:42:00Z")
Well, it’s not my favorite, but I like _Podkayne of Mars_. I also like _The Door into Summer_, although I’ll admit the pedophilic overtones are a little creepy now that I’m reading it as an adult. My personal favorites are _Double Star_, _Glory Road_ and _The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_. ---
**Author:** ![m3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@m3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/m3)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2000, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anybody-ever-tried-metric-time-measurement/10233/31 "2000-04-11T23:57:00Z")
isn’t there a board called MPSIMS? ---
**Author:** ![RM\_Mentock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e274bd/32.png) [@RM\_Mentock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RM_Mentock)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2000, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anybody-ever-tried-metric-time-measurement/10233/32 "2000-04-12T02:54:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by m3: > **On a side note: I don’t think that the choice of a meter was all that intelligent either. I think they just rationalized things till they came up with something pretty close to a yard.** It seems that they settled on the second, as a unit of time, first. Then they took the length of a pendulum that took one second to swing from side to side as their basic length measure. That’s a meter. That’s why the acceleration of gravity is so close to 10m/s/s. Unfortunately, that didn’t pull in enough grant money, so they decided to make the meter 1//40000000 of the circumference of the earth so they could request funds for expeditions to measure the circumference. (Actually, the strength of gravity changes too much from place to place, and the seconds pendulum might be too ambiguous. Not that the measurement of the circumference ain’t.) * * * rocks ---
**Author:** ![Dystopos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e79b87/32.png) [@Dystopos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dystopos)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2000, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anybody-ever-tried-metric-time-measurement/10233/33 "2000-04-12T03:14:00Z")
I’m shocked that no one has suggested adopting stardates yet. Maybe it’s because they’re too flexible. As I understand it, the Alabama Highway Dept. began posting km signage in the mid 90’s in compliance with a Federal directive, but were then informed that anothe rdirective prohibited the use of Federal monies to accomplish the directive while it was in some kind of enforcement limbo. BEcause they were in violation of the second directive, they were instructed to remove the signs amid complaints/fears that roadside assitantance requests would be confused by the two types of marker. So the crews have been out twice and the net effect is zilch. It’s pretty easy to understand. If given the alternative between the familiar and the unfamiliar, however rational. People, myself often included, will stick with the familiar. Now who’s up for talking Stardates as this thread gets sent on it’s 5-year mission to the the pit? (wait a minute… 5 YEAR mission?) -Dystopos ---
**Author:** ![scr4](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/59ef9b/32.png) [@scr4](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scr4)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2000, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anybody-ever-tried-metric-time-measurement/10233/34 "2000-04-12T03:26:00Z")
Have we forgotten that the second is already used as one of the fundamental units of the Metric system? Even the metre is defined as the distance light travels in 1/299792458 of a second. I agree a decimal time system would be useful, but is it so useful that it justifies redefining the entire Metric system? ---
**Author:** ![m3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6f9a4e/32.png) [@m3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/m3)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2000, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anybody-ever-tried-metric-time-measurement/10233/35 "2000-04-12T03:57:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Have we forgotten that the second is already used as one of the fundamental units of the Metric system? Even the metre is defined as the distance light travels in 1/299792458 of a second. I agree a decimal time system would be useful, but is it so useful that it justifies redefining the entire Metric system? Maybe, maybe not. I doubt it would fly on earth. I just thought it would be good geek fun to speculate on though. I’ve also learned about Swatch Time! I think I’ll get their watch.That way, when its 875 I’ll know it’s time for a lunch break :). ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2000, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anybody-ever-tried-metric-time-measurement/10233/36 "2000-04-12T04:16:00Z")
\ I can’t believe I am getting grief from posters for forgetting how to spell Podkane(sick). You should all be in awe of my uncanny ability to wash such things from my memory. I can’t believe you are leaving out _Starship Troopers_. It is quite good. Particularly when read as a trilogy with Haldeman’s _Forever War_, and John Steakly’s _Armor_! \ I don’t know what this has to do with… Oh my, look at the time. * * * ## Just putting my 2sense in. _Tyranny_,\* like Hell\*,\* is not easily conquered\*. -Thomas Paine (fugitive slave catcher) ---
**Author:** ![tony1234](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@tony1234](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tony1234)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2000, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anybody-ever-tried-metric-time-measurement/10233/37 "2000-04-12T05:18:00Z")
Now this is what I like. I light topic in which everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion. Best: Time Enough for Love Stranger in a Strange Land Evocative and poetic Worst: Farnham’s Freehold Ugly alliteration IMHO, Pok\_\_\_\_\_ of Mars is cute and a very nice title for a work of juvenilia. I don’t know why it’s getting such a bad rap. ## Tony Two things fill my mind with ever-increasing wonder and awe: the starry skies above me and the moral law within me. – Kant ---
**Author:** ![tony1234](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@tony1234](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tony1234)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2000, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anybody-ever-tried-metric-time-measurement/10233/38 "2000-04-12T05:33:00Z")
And as long as we are talking about time, what about defining a second, or whatever you want to call the basic unit of time, as the average period between heart beats in human beings. To me that’s the most “natural” unit of time. Along the same lines, I’d define temperature based on human body temperature. Instead of average body temperature being 98.6, it would be 100 degrees. Does anybody know whether these ideas–heartbeat and temperature–in fact were the basic of our present scales, which they seem to roughly correlate with? Tony * * * Two things fill my mind with ever-increasing wonder and awe: the starry skies above me and the moral law within me. – Kant ---
**Author:** ![sailor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a587f6/32.png) [@sailor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sailor)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2000, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anybody-ever-tried-metric-time-measurement/10233/39 "2000-04-12T07:16:00Z")
From [http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/dictS.html#second](http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/dictS.html#second) second (s or sec or ") [1] the fundamental unit of time in all measuring systems. The name simply means that this unit is the second division of the hour, the minute being the first. The second was defined as 1/86 400 mean solar day until astronomers discovered that the mean solar day is actually not constant (see day). The definition was then changed to 1/86 400 of the mean solar day 1900 January 1. Since we can’t go back and measure that day any more, this wasn’t a real solution to the problem. In 1967, scientists agreed to define the second as that period of time which makes the frequency of a certain radiation emitted by atoms of cesium-133 equal to 9 192 631 770 hertz (cycles per second). In other words, if we really want to measure a second, we count 9 192 631 770 cycles of this radiation. This definition allows scientists to reconstruct the second anywhere in the world with equal precision. ---
**Author:** ![sdimbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sdimbert/32/20204_2.png) [@sdimbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sdimbert)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2000, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anybody-ever-tried-metric-time-measurement/10233/40 "2000-04-12T15:19:00Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by tony1234: > \*\*Now this is what I like. I light topic in which everyone is entitled to his or her own opinion… > \*\* Sorry about the unscheduled detour into Heinlien. I meant well, but things got out of hand. Why not check out [Heinlein’s Books and Movies](http://boards.straightdope.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/007498.html) instead? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anybody-ever-tried-metric-time-measurement/10233.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anybody-ever-tried-metric-time-measurement/10233.md?page=3)