# Has Anyone Built a Car This Way? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [September 18, 2015, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-built-a-car-this-way/731665 "2015-09-18T13:00:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-built-a-car-this-way/731665/21 "2015-09-18T15:39:37Z")
I remember an amused comparison of ca. 1972 between GM’s attempt to build what was essentially a disposable car, compared with Volvo’s attempts to make a lifetime car. Much comparison of mindset, cultural waste, etc. I’d say Volvo won, though. Cars last longer today in good shape with less maintenance than even 20 years ago, much less 40. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-built-a-car-this-way/731665/22 "2015-09-18T15:39:56Z")
I don’t think you could do what you describe very effectively. Engines almost never wear out in a reasonable timeframe these days unless there’s a design flaw, a manufacturing defect, or there’s slipshod maintenance. Just about any modern-day engine that’s well designed and well built should last 200k easily. By that point, the rest of the car will almost certainly be falling apart around the engine through age and wear. You’ll probably replace a water pump or two, a starter solenoid or two, and an alternator or two before your actual engine core (pistons/crankshaft/camshaft) wear out. Your brakes, shocks and suspension will wear out and need replacing as well by then. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-built-a-car-this-way/731665/23 "2015-09-18T15:40:37Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > lots of people will settle for crappy cars if they’re cheap enough. How do you think Chrysler managed to sell so many Sebrings between 2007-2010? 😉 Marketing. They were sold as sexy, sporty, stylish cars to people who barely knew how many wheels a car should have, at a price point easy to sell. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-built-a-car-this-way/731665/24 "2015-09-18T15:42:10Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Marketing. They were sold as sexy, sporty, stylish cars to people who barely knew how many wheels a car should have, at a price point easy to sell. even a two year old would have seen through all of the marketing BS within 0.05 seconds of getting into the car. ---
**Author:** ![doorhinge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a5b964/32.png) [@doorhinge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doorhinge)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-built-a-car-this-way/731665/25 "2015-09-18T15:48:41Z")
> [@MichaelEmouse](#): > > …In guns, those critical parts are the barrel, chamber and at least parts of the bolt assembly. In engines, I presume the cylinders but I don’t know enough about ICE to say more. If anyone does, please tell us what parts of an ICE are put under the most stress. It would be ill-advised to make those out of stamped metal. Generally speaking, operational cylinder pressures can exceed 1000 psi but the actual pressure depend on individual compression ratios, fuel type, valve lift and duration, etc. A static atmospheric pressure compression ratio of 10 to 1 changes drastically after the fuel/air mixture is ignited. Which parts are most likely to fail due solely to high cylinder pressure? I’ve had cylinder head bolts pull out and rod bearings fail. Bolt failures reduced cylinder pressure. Bearing failures blow’d the motor up real good. \*Compression Stroke After the intake stroke, the intake valve closes to trap in the air and fuel. (The exhaust valve was already closed during the intake stroke. ) Now the piston starts it’s upwards stroke, compressing the air/fuel mixture to pressures of 100 to 200 psi or more. The actual pressure depends on when the intake valve closes, the pressure in the intake manifold (MAP or Manifold Absolute Pressure), Compression Ratio, and other details. The compression of the air and fuel creates heat and somewhat helps vaporize the fuel. It also takes even more work from the engine to do this compression. So far, the engine is doing all the work and getting no power from the air/fuel mixture. Combustion / Expansion Stroke This stroke is where the spark plug ignites the air/fuel mixture, creating very high cylinder pressure which rise very quickly. Peak cylinder pressures near TDC (where spark occurs) will be in the range of 300 psi for engine’s at light loads, to 1000 psi for production engines at full power to 1500 psi or greater for race engines. This is where the engine’s power comes from, as it forces the piston down. As the piston goes down, the cylinder volume increases which reduces the cylinder pressure. When the piston gets to the bottom on the cylinder (BDC) there may only be 100 to 500 psi in the cylinder.\* [http://performancetrends.com/Definitions/Cylinder-Pressure.htm](http://performancetrends.com/Definitions/Cylinder-Pressure.htm) [![](https://www.performancetrends.com/Definitions/Images/Cylinder-Pressure-Lrg.gif) ](https://www.performancetrends.com/Definitions/Images/Cylinder-Pressure-Lrg.gif) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-built-a-car-this-way/731665/26 "2015-09-18T15:51:36Z")
> [@Nefario](#): > > I’ve seen design exercises (Porsche?) of an “updatable” car with easily changed body panels and major parts. GM Hy-Wire concept, possibly? It was powered by a hydrogen fuel cell which sat in a floor with all the running gear. You could lift off the body and passenger compartment in one piece and drop in a new one; pickup truck today, minivan tomorrow, convertible on Saturday. > [@jz78817](#): > > lots of people will settle for crappy cars if they’re cheap enough. How do you think Chrysler managed to sell so many Sebrings between 2007-2010? 😉 They were good looking (at least from a distance) and basically the only four seat convertibles available in that price range. How they sold hardtops I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Nefario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/59ef9b/32.png) [@Nefario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nefario)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-built-a-car-this-way/731665/27 "2015-09-18T16:19:06Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > GM Hy-Wire concept, possibly? It was powered by a hydrogen fuel cell which sat in a floor with all the running gear. You could lift off the body and passenger compartment in one piece and drop in a new one; pickup truck today, minivan tomorrow, convertible on Saturday. Dunno… I remember this as a European idea, maybe seen in Popular Science in the 1990’s? It wasn’t as radical as changing the whole body and idea kinda goes with the various European “safety” inspections where a vehicle must pass periodically or be scrapped. (in order to sell new cars 🆒 ) ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-built-a-car-this-way/731665/28 "2015-09-18T16:22:20Z")
> [@jz78817](#): > > even a two year old would have seen through all of the marketing BS within 0.05 seconds of getting into the car. Apparently several hundred thousand 23-month-olds wandered into showrooms, then. 😃 Did you ever get within 20 feet of the last-gen “Capri”? Made Yugos look like show cars. I drove a Sebring convertible or its stablemate for about a week, around 1993. Don’t recall it being any worse that most new, lower-priced stuff of the era. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-built-a-car-this-way/731665/29 "2015-09-18T16:32:35Z")
> [@Amateur\_Barbarian](#): > > Apparently several hundred thousand 23-month-olds wandered into showrooms, then. 😃 > > Did you ever get within 20 feet of the last-gen “Capri”? Made Yugos look like show cars. > > I drove a Sebring convertible or its stablemate for about a week, around 1993. Don’t recall it being any worse that most new, lower-priced stuff of the era. I was careful to specifically refer to the 2007-2010 Sebring. The first gen JX Sebring (what you drove) was a decent car. The second-gen JR Sebring went through Daimler-mandated de-contenting and was literally a rebadged Dodge Stratus. The third gen JS Sebring had every possible bit of anything that might have been good stripped out of it and was a miserable piece of shit. it was [cartoonishly styled and had a dreadful interior.](http://www.allpar.com/cars/chrysler/sebring.html) I think it was on _Jalopnik_- I’ll find a link if I can- where they did a sort of “Ask Me Anything” with a guy who used to be a salesman at a Chrysler-Jeep dealer up until the bankruptcy. I asked him specifically “how did you convince people to buy Sebrings?” and his answer was more or less “they had no other options, we were the only ones who would offer them financing on a new car.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-built-a-car-this-way/731665/30 "2015-09-18T16:34:47Z")
Other than the hideous “wood veneer,” I kind of like the interior. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-built-a-car-this-way/731665/31 "2015-09-18T16:35:17Z")
Okay. Yeah, it seems like every maker has one model on the lot sold to “heh, heh, you need a car at any cost, eh?” buyers. Sold _only_, that is. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-built-a-car-this-way/731665/32 "2015-09-18T16:40:00Z")
Well, Chysler has 12. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-built-a-car-this-way/731665/33 "2015-09-18T16:41:26Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Other than the hideous “wood veneer,” I kind of like the interior. if you’d ever sat in one, you’d never utter such words 😉 and that was supposed to be “tortoise shell” plastic. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-built-a-car-this-way/731665/34 "2015-09-18T16:43:57Z")
… that’s not better. 🙂 “Featuring a steering wheel made out of old ladies’ reading glasses!” ---
**Author:** ![Daylate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9dc877/32.png) [@Daylate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylate)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-built-a-car-this-way/731665/35 "2015-09-18T16:49:01Z")
Regarding the mileage one can get on a VW air cooled engine, my wife’s beloved 1969 VW Squareback has an engine with 170,000 miles on it. Was rebuilt sometime around 1980 or so, and has been running ever since. The only major problem we’ve had with it happened last year when the computer (yes, it had computer controlled fuel injection) died and the repair shop was unable to find a replacement anywhere. So they just ripped out the fuel injection system and replaced it with twin carbs. Has a lot more pep than originally, but the fuel consumption is a bit crappy. But who cares when she drives the care an average of maybe 2 miles a day. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-built-a-car-this-way/731665/36 "2015-09-18T17:09:42Z")
> [@Hail\_Ants](#): > > Yeah, it was called the Yugo\*!\* 😃 > > Again, like the Yugo, a cheap car is going to be junk its entire lifetime. The Yugo was nothing more than a Fiat. Our '88 ran 86K before the engine blew, no major problems before that. Extremely bare bones basic transportation but worth the $3200 we paid for it brand new. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-built-a-car-this-way/731665/37 "2015-09-18T17:13:56Z")
… a Fiat that was discontinued five years earlier, yes. And it’s not as though Fiat was known for quality, reliability, or anything other than rusting. ---
**Author:** ![Nefario](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/59ef9b/32.png) [@Nefario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nefario)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-built-a-car-this-way/731665/38 "2015-09-18T17:23:59Z")
_[Here’s](http://www.jcristmuseum.org/stutz.SHTML)_ your removable/replaceable engine in the 1937 Stutz - Pakagecar delivery truck! ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-built-a-car-this-way/731665/39 "2015-09-18T21:12:58Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > … a Fiat that was discontinued five years earlier, yes. And it’s not as though Fiat was known for quality, reliability, or anything other than rusting. Like I said, extremely bare bones basic transportation. But the 86K mostly trouble free miles we got was worth the $3200 for a new car w/warranty. The next step up (Ford Escort/Geo Metro) were 2.5-3 times the cost. The Yugo made a good 2nd car for driving around town and such. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2015, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-built-a-car-this-way/731665/40 "2015-09-18T21:30:55Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > Back in 1971 I worked in an independent repair shop. Reliability of AC VWs in hot weather was horrible. We had many cars that averaged about 10K between serious engine repairs such as burnt valves, or destroyed engines. > I am totally underwhelmed with AC VW motors. They suck. Funny, as already mentioned, they were very successful cars in Mexico and some hot South American countries. My first car was a used VW and I had it for about 4 or 5 years or so with hardly any problems at all in either cold winters or hot summers. The only problem I can recall was stomping too hard on the accelerator a few times too many and pulling the throttle cable right off the engine. I tied it back on with a little Boy Scout knot and drove it in to a dealer for a 5-minute fix. That was typical VW maintenance! 🙂 > [@ralph124c](#): > > I remember that Kertzman’s VW (Quincy, MA) could swap out a VW engine in 16 minutes. the engines always sounded terrble-with a distinct metal on metal clashing sound. It was more of a chain-like whirring. I think it was due to the piston rings. A VW engine that didn’t make that sound was a fairly reliable tip-off that it was burning oil. > [@ralph124c](#): > > I mean, with an engine designed to be cheap, and run for about 50,000 miles. at this point, you would remove it and put a new one in. the engine would be made of cheap stamped metal (no cast block), and be ultralight. It would be made in such a way that no repairs would be needed for its 50 K mile lifespan. The money you would save from repairs/maintenance would be a plus, and you would always have a "next to new’ car. The engine would be designed so that it could be simply unbolted and lifted out, an engine swap would take 30 minutes. > Did anyone ever build such a car? Interesting thought: substitute “battery pack” for “engine” and in broad terms you’ve perfectly described the electric car. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-built-a-car-this-way/731665.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-built-a-car-this-way/731665.md?page=3)