# Has anyone dared to suggest that 9/11 shouldn't have been that big of a deal? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 17, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-dared-to-suggest-that-9-11-shouldnt-have-been-that-big-of-a-deal/496751 "2009-05-17T15:38:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-dared-to-suggest-that-9-11-shouldnt-have-been-that-big-of-a-deal/496751/141 "2009-05-21T02:25:36Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Of course it’s different, and we respond to it differently – on a personal level. But if you were a national leader, could you afford to let yourself have such a personal response? Again, I’d suggest that Bush _was_ in his way a big-hearted guy and took 9-11 very personally, and this opened the way for advisors like Cheney to push their own agendas onto him so readily. You’re not going to find many people, especially on this board, who think Bush’s long-term response to 9/11 was completely appropriate. I sure as hell don’t, for the record. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-dared-to-suggest-that-9-11-shouldnt-have-been-that-big-of-a-deal/496751/142 "2009-05-21T02:31:59Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > I really doubt that al-Quaida would have any intention to do it again. Really? Why is that? There were two attacks on the WTC, plus attacks in Spain and England. What makes you think after 9/11 everything would just settle down? ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-dared-to-suggest-that-9-11-shouldnt-have-been-that-big-of-a-deal/496751/143 "2009-05-21T02:42:12Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Really? Why is that? There were two attacks on the WTC, plus attacks in Spain and England. What makes you think after 9/11 everything would just settle down? Why do I doubt that al Qaida would be flying planes into skyscrapers today? 'Cause they shot their load, it was a one-time spectacular. And I don’t recall planes flying into buildings in Spain and England. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-dared-to-suggest-that-9-11-shouldnt-have-been-that-big-of-a-deal/496751/144 "2009-05-21T02:42:20Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > Really? Why is that? There were two attacks on the WTC, plus attacks in Spain and England. What makes you think after 9/11 everything would just settle down? Because they got as much as they can from that tactic ? Although with Obama elected and the Democrats in power I think it more likely that they will try for something similar again at some point, in hopes of getting the Republicans back in. The Republicans have been great for Al Qaeda; unofficial, unintentional allies in effect. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-dared-to-suggest-that-9-11-shouldnt-have-been-that-big-of-a-deal/496751/145 "2009-05-21T02:44:30Z")
The airplane thing will likely not work again in any of our lifetimes. It stopped working 3/4ths of the way through their plan that morning. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-dared-to-suggest-that-9-11-shouldnt-have-been-that-big-of-a-deal/496751/146 "2009-05-21T03:00:08Z")
I wasn’t talking about attacks with airliners. I was interpreting the quote I responded to to imply that Al-Quida wasn’t interested in attacking the US again. If that’s not what was meant, sorry. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-dared-to-suggest-that-9-11-shouldnt-have-been-that-big-of-a-deal/496751/147 "2009-05-21T03:01:46Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > I wasn’t talking about attacks with airliners. I was interpreting the quote I responded to to imply that Al-Quida wasn’t interested in attacking the US again. If that’s not what was meant, sorry. The same. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-dared-to-suggest-that-9-11-shouldnt-have-been-that-big-of-a-deal/496751/148 "2009-05-21T03:04:20Z")
Oh, I was just responding to #143. I have no reason to believe they’ve lost interest in attacking us, just that they probably won’t use planes next time. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-dared-to-suggest-that-9-11-shouldnt-have-been-that-big-of-a-deal/496751/149 "2009-05-21T03:23:15Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Oh, I was just responding to #143. I have no reason to believe they’ve lost interest in attacking us, just that they probably won’t use planes next time. No problem, we’re in agreement. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 5:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-dared-to-suggest-that-9-11-shouldnt-have-been-that-big-of-a-deal/496751/150 "2009-05-21T05:35:40Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > No problem, we’re in agreement. I know you are, but what am I? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-dared-to-suggest-that-9-11-shouldnt-have-been-that-big-of-a-deal/496751/151 "2009-05-21T12:43:00Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Or put it this way: What specific changes were made to our society and policy, in direct response to 9-11, that in hindsight have left us better off as a nation? I’m suggesting that you can’t find a single example. Intelligence gathering really did need to be improved - probably a lot more than it has, though. In terms of policy, unsurprisingly, the big things proved hard to change. Some of the things that might be considered ‘small,’ like the anti-Muslim backlash that followed the attacks, was terrible. If people made the wrong changes, that doesn’t prove they made too big a deal out of the event. > [@](#): > > Of course it’s different, and we respond to it differently – on a personal level. But if you were a national leader, could you afford to let yourself have such a personal response? Wouldn’t you be _obliged_ to have one? You have to do what’s best and not go crazy, sure, but I think you’re suggesting and unrealistic (and perhaps unhelpful) degree of personal remove. > [@](#): > > Again, I’d suggest that Bush _was_ in his way a big-hearted guy and took 9-11 very personally, and this opened the way for advisors like Cheney to push their own agendas onto him so readily. This really has nothing to do with anything. I don’t see any evidence Bush took things too personally and I don’t think that’s the problem. The problem was that he and his people were bad at governing and had a lot of terrible ideas. ---
**Author:** ![Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/try2b_comprehensive/32/65_2.png) [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Try2B_Comprehensive)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-dared-to-suggest-that-9-11-shouldnt-have-been-that-big-of-a-deal/496751/152 "2009-05-21T14:04:00Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Really? Can you give us an example of someone espousing the conspiracy theory that every troother is an anti-semite? > > On the matter of anti-semitism and 9/11 trooth, when you see blatantly false, clearly fabricated lies connecting Larry Silverstein (a Jew) to “inside job” 9/11 plots on the same websites that feature anti-Jewish rhetoric, well, it’s really not much of a leap to connect the two things. _Someone_ made that stuff up. Why? > > Not to mention the very first 9/11 conspiracy that most people heard, within hours or days of the events, was the “dancing Jews” myth. The second was the “all the Jews called in sick that day” myth. > > Face it, 9/11 trooth and anti-semitism have been in bed together since the beginning. The only reason I don’t believe every single troother is an anti-semite is because most of them are too brain dead and culturally and historically clueless to make the connection. Really, none of this has to do with Jews IMHO. I do appreciate how strenuously you are opposed to the demolition theory. While I still find aspects of 911 suspicious, I am finding the demolition theory to not hold a lot of water. :smack: Feel better? This leads extraordinarily well to my next point however. You believe conspiracy theorists are mentally ill, stupid, both or worse? You’re upset that Joe Blow would post a bunch of garbage on SDMB before researching the topic first? Excellent! How would you feel if people making life-and-death decisions behaved like that? Here’s a quote from [a debunking website](http://www.debunking911.com/conspiracy.htm): > [@](#): > > For the first time before a modern war, Bush did not ask for National Intelligence Estimate. Congress demands it. N.I.E. said Saddam not a threat. Regarding the OP- Bush knew the WMD theory was false, and he knew Iraq had nothing to do with 911. He never seemed to tire of promoting either one as a justification for going to war. And he didn’t want to see intelligence reports to the contrary, especially not right before the war. You see where I’m going? Bush foisted _conspiracy theories_ on the American public as a justification for the war. At the same time, the Bush Administration’s behavior suggests there may be a conspiracy (perhaps a better word is available) among certain members to get us into Iraq for their own motives. It is no wonder I am so suspicious. The basis for the war was not just a lie but a conspiracy theory to boot. I personally have a lot of resistance to the idea that the people at the top of our government are stupid and incompetent, and I’m left not knowing what to make of the situation, other than to be suspicious. Bottom line: To term it an ‘overreaction’ may be inaccurate, but yes, we overreacted to 911. The country was duped by Bush’s conspiracy theories… into war. Cisco, you of all people should understand how upsetting that is. ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_Dubinsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dbc845/32.png) [@Alex\_Dubinsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_Dubinsky)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-dared-to-suggest-that-9-11-shouldnt-have-been-that-big-of-a-deal/496751/153 "2009-05-21T15:58:04Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > Really? Can you give us an example of someone espousing the conspiracy theory that every troother is an anti-semite? Haha, so not everyone. Just 50%. There was a great post in one of the earlier 9/11 threads by someone that the truth movement, like all modern conspiracies, was founded in the Chronicles. Simple as that. It was epic. But your reply to **Try2B** that “more than one of your points is overtly anti-semitic” was likewise out of left-field. I read over them, and there was just _nothing_ about jews or even israel or anything that can be interpreted as such. I really feel reluctant to bring facts into this, since it just makes me feel so happy to see you spout your own senseless nonsense, but [this chart from the Economist](http://www.economist.com/daily/chartgallery/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12202383) demonstrates that the ‘Jews did it’ view is marginal everywhere except the Middle East. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-dared-to-suggest-that-9-11-shouldnt-have-been-that-big-of-a-deal/496751/154 "2009-05-21T16:02:04Z")
> [@Alex\_Dubinsky](#): > > But your reply to **Try2B** that “more than one of your points is overtly anti-semitic” was likewise out of left-field. I read over them, and there was just _nothing_ about jews or even israel or anything that can be interpreted as such. Really? Just answer me this, then: who made up the demonstrably false stuff about Larry Silverstein, and why? ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_Dubinsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dbc845/32.png) [@Alex\_Dubinsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_Dubinsky)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-dared-to-suggest-that-9-11-shouldnt-have-been-that-big-of-a-deal/496751/155 "2009-05-21T16:27:24Z")
I don’t get it… people accuse the owner and lead developer of being in on it. Why isn’t it contemplateable they do it solely because… he is the lead developer, the insurance policy holder, etc.? Can noone accuse a Jew of anything?! ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-dared-to-suggest-that-9-11-shouldnt-have-been-that-big-of-a-deal/496751/156 "2009-05-21T16:36:05Z")
Ah, don’t want to answer the question. I am not surprised. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-dared-to-suggest-that-9-11-shouldnt-have-been-that-big-of-a-deal/496751/157 "2009-05-21T16:56:33Z")
> [@Alex\_Dubinsky](#): > > It is easy to support the freefall claim by observing that debris coming off the towers fell approximately together with the towers themselves. The debris faced no resistance but air, while the towers had to supposedly travel through concrete and steel. (Hey, psst, Alex. Look at #10 in the [Top 10 Photos 9/11 Conspiracy Nuts Hate](http://layscience.net/node/124). This’ll be our little secret, ok? I just don’t want you to look dumb by continuing to claim stuff that clearly isn’t true.) ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-dared-to-suggest-that-9-11-shouldnt-have-been-that-big-of-a-deal/496751/158 "2009-05-21T17:11:01Z")
> [@Alex\_Dubinsky](#): > > I really feel reluctant to bring facts into this, since it just makes me feel so happy to see you spout your own senseless nonsense, but [this chart from the Economist](http://www.economist.com/daily/chartgallery/displaystory.cfm?story_id=12202383) demonstrates that the ‘Jews did it’ view is marginal everywhere except the Middle East. The charge was that “the Jews did it” is common in the 9/11 “Truther” community. The Economist didn’t survey them separately, did they? > [@Alex\_Dubinsky](#): > > I’m simply pointing out that the structurally massive core should have provided resistance. This doesn’t mean it would have stopped the collapse or been free from damage, but that it would have deflected an object attempting to move through it. As had started to happen. Maybe you didn’t notice, but the cores of the two buildings _did_ offer quite a bit of resistance. So much so, in fact, that very tall sections of the cores remained standing after the rest of the buildings had collapsed around them. Then, with no lateral support, the cores themselves collapsed. What you can see from the videos is that the material between the cores and the perimeter columns was not pancaking, but something more like avalanching, and the avalanche was being funneled by the core and perimeter columns so that the avalanche’s leading edge was contained within them. After the leading edge passed and took out the floor trusses, there was nothing securing the perimeter columns in place, so the avalanche behind the leading edge blasted out those now-unsupported columns. Further, it’s quite apparent from many pictures and videos that debris which fell _outside_ the building fell _much_ faster than the avalanche was progressing. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2009, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-dared-to-suggest-that-9-11-shouldnt-have-been-that-big-of-a-deal/496751/159 "2009-05-21T17:27:43Z")
By the way, [here is another photo that is really painful for free-fallers to look at](http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/7421/wtc1feefall.jpg), just in case there’s anybody left in the world besides Alex Dubinsky who believes that nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Alex\_Dubinsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dbc845/32.png) [@Alex\_Dubinsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alex_Dubinsky)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2009, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-dared-to-suggest-that-9-11-shouldnt-have-been-that-big-of-a-deal/496751/160 "2009-05-22T02:08:48Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > By the way, here is another photo that is really painful for free-fallers to look at, just in case there’s anybody left in the world besides Alex Dubinsky who believes that nonsense. That’s a good photo. Much better than the other one (in which the debris of course fell a little faster, but barely by much). But why are these pieces so isolated? Why didn’t the other large chunks of facade fall with them (instead of being back in that dust cloud that fell approximately with the towers)? We don’t see earlier in the tape, but likely these pieces were simply ejected early, before the full-on start. That’s why they’re ahead. > [@CurtC](#): > > The charge was that “the Jews did it” is common in the 9/11 “Truther” community. The Economist didn’t survey them separately, did they? That’s true. It wasn’t a survey of them specifically, or Americans, and maybe the “hardcore” US views are somewhat different. But among the “lay-truthers” in Western countries, almost none of them put the blame on Israel (unlike in Egypt, or even Russia). That puts a big damper on proponents of the “antisemites are everywhere” bent. > [@CurtC](#): > > So much so, in fact, that very tall sections of the cores remained standing after the rest of the buildings had collapsed around them. Then, with no lateral support, the cores themselves collapsed. Do you have a cite of this? (video, etc) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-dared-to-suggest-that-9-11-shouldnt-have-been-that-big-of-a-deal/496751.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-dared-to-suggest-that-9-11-shouldnt-have-been-that-big-of-a-deal/496751.md?page=9)