# Has anyone ever done a "reverse placebo" experiment? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 1, 2016, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-done-a-reverse-placebo-experiment/773502 "2016-12-01T00:14:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-done-a-reverse-placebo-experiment/773502/21 "2016-12-02T16:53:32Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Double-blind studies are _not_ all done against placebo. Some were in the past. A few are even now. _but I can’t remember the last time I read a double-blind study that was done with placebo as one arm_. > > Given the number of drug tests always happening, I’m sure that there are some happening right now where one arm is a placebo, and I’m sure that people who read a lot of drug studies will know lots of them: that’s why I qualified the third statement: > before going on to say — which is how most double blind drug stidies are done. I think it would be fair to say it depends on the drugs being tested, and what they are being tested for, and where those drugs are in the testing process. At some point, all\* new drugs will be tested versus placebo for safety reasons. Later research may be conducted against other drugs to determine efficacy of one versus another for something specific. Perhaps placebo-arm trials are rarely published due to a variety of reasons, such as earliness in the testing cycle or relative unimportance of the drug being tested. Something “hot” or new might be worth publication, versus something with OK safety results but equivocal efficacy results. It might depend also on how many effective treatments already exist in the area being investigated. In the end, what is worth publishing may be that new drug “X” is better than older drug “y”, hence the trials that use those two drugs in a double-blind study. TL;DR I think we may be discussing a difference in what is published, versus the protocols. \*Almost all, with exceptions as noted above in the thread. Some drugs can’t effectively ever be tested in this manner. The FDA does allow the step to be skipped in some cases, following very specific guidelines, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-done-a-reverse-placebo-experiment/773502/22 "2016-12-02T16:56:02Z")
> [@Okrahoma](#): > > Please do if you can. I have never seen anything like that, and it would be interesting to see. A study like this, if it shows a significant effect, would be applicable to all kinds of things. Like drug advertising or physician conversations with patients when discussing treatment. I still have this on my to-do this, but would caution against its utility. It’s more likely to be “interesting” but considered non-scientific at this point in time. Depends on what I find, of course. I’ll keep you posted. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-done-a-reverse-placebo-experiment/773502/23 "2016-12-02T17:00:32Z")
> [@Melbourne](#): > > Double-blind studies are _not_ all done against placebo. Ran out of time - I did want to acknowledge this specific point. Yes, you are correct. It’s a case of placebo studies all being double-blind, but not all double-blind studies necessarily being placebo. (Let’s not even get into multi-arm. ;)) ---
**Author:** ![Okrahoma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/90db22/32.png) [@Okrahoma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Okrahoma)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-done-a-reverse-placebo-experiment/773502/24 "2016-12-02T17:16:27Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > I still have this on my to-do this, but would caution against its utility. It’s more likely to be “interesting” but considered non-scientific at this point in time. Depends on what I find, of course. I’ll keep you posted. Well let’s say that the study is done and shows a significant effect. That could lead to an argument that it is very important for physicians to forcefully emphasize to their patients just how effective the drug they’re given is (even exaggerate the effectiveness). ---
**Author:** ![OldOlds](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a3d4f5/32.png) [@OldOlds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldOlds)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-done-a-reverse-placebo-experiment/773502/25 "2016-12-02T18:00:01Z")
> [@D18](#): > > Apologies for continuing the hijack, but as I followed up out of my own interest. I took a look at 4 recent new-drug launches in the US (Ameluz, Taltz, Adlyxin, and Onzetra). All four have placebo-controlled trials supporting their approval. I stopped there just because of time, but placebo-controlled trials look to be still quite common. They will be by far the most common type of trial (at least in P3). I think some folks were only pointing out that they are not the only type. ---
**Author:** ![D18](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c57346/32.png) [@D18](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D18)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2016, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-done-a-reverse-placebo-experiment/773502/26 "2016-12-02T18:06:35Z")
^ **Melbourne** indicated otherwise and I was just trying to figure out what was going on. In my line of work, I tend to be dealing with P3 data, so that’s what I read. Looks like Melbourne works in an area where active-control is much more common so we’re coming at it from different directions. ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2016, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-done-a-reverse-placebo-experiment/773502/27 "2016-12-04T02:14:39Z")
> [@D18](#): > > ^ **Melbourne** indicated otherwise and I was just trying to figure out what was going on. In my line of work, I tend to be dealing with P3 data, so that’s what I read. Looks like Melbourne works in an area where active-control is much more common so we’re coming at it from different directions. Hi :). I don’t work in the area. I read GP/Family medicine literature, which, of course, is all end-stage trials. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-done-a-reverse-placebo-experiment/773502.md?page=1)