# Has anyone ever risen from the lowest possible military rank to the highest? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 20, 2017, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-risen-from-the-lowest-possible-military-rank-to-the-highest/804946 "2017-12-20T20:31:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-risen-from-the-lowest-possible-military-rank-to-the-highest/804946/21 "2017-12-21T01:32:53Z")
I don’t know. The online answers range from “Wrong” to “Holy crap you’re wrong!” I’m writing myself a note to check my biographies of Napoleon. They are in my classroom and currently inaccessible. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 3:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-risen-from-the-lowest-possible-military-rank-to-the-highest/804946/22 "2017-12-21T03:12:02Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > They used to call Napoleon “the Little Corporal.” Hard to think he never spent any time as a private. And _he_ made it all the way to Holy Roman Emperor. > [@silenus](#): > > Napoleon was never an enlisted man. He entered the French Army as an artillery Second Lt. And he was never Holy Roman Emperor. He was “Emperor of the French”. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 3:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-risen-from-the-lowest-possible-military-rank-to-the-highest/804946/23 "2017-12-21T03:20:52Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Check [this site](http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/ree-drummond/spaghetti-carbonara-3220423). Both Vessey and Shalikashvili made it from private to Chairman of the JCS. Along with a good recipe for spaghetti, John Shalikashvili had a fascinating life and career. As a child he was stateless in Poland and lived through the invasion and occupation of the country. They fled west at the end of the war and escaped being behind the Iron Curtain. He was 16 when they go to the states and he didn’t speak English. 6 years later he was getting a mechanical engineering degree. He was a draftee who chose to go to OCS and then obviously made it a career. He also held command positions at every level. All that is a very rare combination to make it to CJCS. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-risen-from-the-lowest-possible-military-rank-to-the-highest/804946/24 "2017-12-21T03:24:03Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Check [this site](http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/ree-drummond/spaghetti-carbonara-3220423). Both Vessey and Shalikashvili made it from private to Chairman of the JCS. Great username/Freudian-slip-link combo! That’s what happens when you’re trying to post here and figure out what’s for dinner at the same time. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-risen-from-the-lowest-possible-military-rank-to-the-highest/804946/25 "2017-12-21T05:19:46Z")
Chief of Pakistani Army in the 1965 War, [Gen Musa Khan started off as an enlisted man.](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_Musa). His first job in the Army was water bearer. No doubt the Israelis have several. Perhaps we should limit this to men who some time in service as enlisted. As opposed to someone who was enlisted and then soon after were selected for officer training; a relatively common phenomenon. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-risen-from-the-lowest-possible-military-rank-to-the-highest/804946/26 "2017-12-21T05:44:25Z")
IIRC Israel does not maintain the same kind of distinction between officer and enlisted as anglo-centric militaries. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-risen-from-the-lowest-possible-military-rank-to-the-highest/804946/27 "2017-12-21T06:17:57Z")
Well per[wiki they do](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_Defense_Forces_ranks). From what **Alessan** has stated, AIUI, they don’t have Military Academy’s like West Point or Sandhurst, everyone starts in basic and the ones selected or volunteering to become officers, are then sent for further training rather than units. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-risen-from-the-lowest-possible-military-rank-to-the-highest/804946/28 "2017-12-21T07:04:35Z")
It is possible that the Israeli military makes for example less of a difference in certain matters of protocol, but that’s not the same as having no distinction. I’m remembering a guy who claimed that the Argentinian Army “doesn’t have non-commisioned officers”. Yes they do, ain’t no army can walk without sergeants. But because the Spanish term is _suboficiales_, dude insisted that there is no such thing as NCOs in Spanish. I guess we should’a been grateful he’d never found out that our Lt’s on up don’t get _comisiones_ either… (they get _nombramientos_). ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-risen-from-the-lowest-possible-military-rank-to-the-highest/804946/29 "2017-12-21T07:32:57Z")
Well then the highest rank in the Pakistan Army is full Colonel. Above that they only have “appointments” tied to a post. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 7:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-risen-from-the-lowest-possible-military-rank-to-the-highest/804946/30 "2017-12-21T07:55:47Z")
All Chiefs of Staff of the Israeli army, bar one (a pilot), started out as grunts. One of them (Moshe “Bogie” Yaalon) was even discharged from regular service as an NCO, was called back as a reservist for the 1973 war, and decided to reenlist and become an officer. > [@friedo](#): > > IIRC Israel does not maintain the same kind of distinction between officer and enlisted as anglo-centric militaries. The rank structure is pretty much the same as most modern military forces, with a few minor tweaks. Military _culture_ is a different story - although obviously every army has its own culture. In broad terms, discipline is de-emphasized in favor of “professionalism” (which is basically the same thing, only with less saluting), and junior officers are considered specialists rather than generalists. The latter point means that officers, particularly in combat arms, often have more in common with the troops under their command than with their fellow officers; it also means that the army doesn’t see the need for college degrees (for non-technical officers) for ranks below lieutenant colonel, the first real “generalist” rank. They also don’t really have the stereotype other armies have, that of the incompetent junior officer who needs to be led by the nose by their more experienced sergeant, as even the freshest second lieutenant had already served as a grunt and a squad leader at least. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-risen-from-the-lowest-possible-military-rank-to-the-highest/804946/31 "2017-12-21T08:47:28Z")
When’s the officer selection done? ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 9:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-risen-from-the-lowest-possible-military-rank-to-the-highest/804946/32 "2017-12-21T09:03:28Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > When’s the officer selection done? It depends. Usually after a certain amount of time serving as a junior NCO (squad leader, tank commander, etc.), with the recommendation of their own commanding officer. There’s a minimum total period of service required, but it varies by profession. Sorry - it’s been awhile, and I was never interested in becoming an officer myself, so I can’t really give you more details. I do remember that back in my day, the “youngest” infantry officers had served for a total of two years. That’s six months of standard infantry training, three months of infantry service, three months of squad leader training, six months of squad leader service, and six months of officer’s training. It can vary greatly, though. There is a “designated officer” program for some select non-combat positions, in which candidates are selected before enlistment and fast-tracked through their service as private soldiers, NCOs and officer’s school, but AFAIK if they wash out they have to continue serving at whatever ranked they reached. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 9:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-risen-from-the-lowest-possible-military-rank-to-the-highest/804946/33 "2017-12-21T09:41:24Z")
Thanks. 🙂 In truth the actural career progression does not seem that different from other Armies. (Here is [Bear\_Nenno](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=18685685&postcount=8) writing the requirements for a US Infantry officer, there are several months of training after commissioning). The biggest difference seems to be that i) Most Armies grant commission at the end of basic officer training, and then make them complete further necessary courses. In IDF’s case a commission is granted after completion of the same. ii) The training seems to be concentrated in the Unit as opposed to dedicated training intallations. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 9:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-risen-from-the-lowest-possible-military-rank-to-the-highest/804946/34 "2017-12-21T09:50:25Z")
Pretty much. The difference is in selection - in other military forces, officer candidates largely start out as a blank slate, while in the IDF, they have already proven themselves to be at least above-average soldiers and commanders (although in my experience, plenty of losers still slip through the cracks). One can almost say that, in a way, enlisted service as a whole is basically a tryout process for potential officers. ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-risen-from-the-lowest-possible-military-rank-to-the-highest/804946/35 "2017-12-21T10:05:55Z")
> [@Rick\_Kitchen](#): > > Does Adolf Hitler count? If Hitler counts, then so do Abraham Lincoln and James Buchanan, who also served as privates before becoming commander-in-chief of the armed forces. But I rather think this is against the spirit of the question, which seems to be about those who progressed through the ranks as part of a military career, not veterans who later entered politics. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 10:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-risen-from-the-lowest-possible-military-rank-to-the-highest/804946/36 "2017-12-21T10:32:24Z")
**AK84** - Note also that there is a certain amount of specific training given officers after commissioning. It depends on their profession and on which version of Officer’s Course they took - for instance, an intelligence officer will do a 3-month Officer’s Course followed by 4 months of Intelligence Officer Training; a tanker will do a 4-month Officer’s Course followed by 3 months of Tank Officer Training, and so on. Vanilla infantry reeive no supplemental training because the 6-month Infantry Officer Course is already infantry-oriented. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-risen-from-the-lowest-possible-military-rank-to-the-highest/804946/37 "2017-12-21T11:17:18Z")
> **[Toyotomi Hideyoshi](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyotomi_Hideyoshi)** > > Toyotomi Hideyoshi (豊臣 秀吉, 2 February 1537 – 18 September 1598), otherwise known as Kinoshita Tōkichirō (木下 藤吉郎) and Hashiba Hideyoshi (羽柴 秀吉), was a Japanese samurai and daimyō (feudal lord) of the late Sengoku period regarded as the second "Great Unifier" of Japan. > Hideyoshi rose from a peasant background as a retainer of the prominent lord Oda Nobunaga to become one of the most powerful men in Japan. Hideyoshi succeeded Nobunaga after the Honnō-ji Incident in 1582 and continued Nobunaga's cam... ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-risen-from-the-lowest-possible-military-rank-to-the-highest/804946/38 "2017-12-21T19:18:10Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > I don’t know. The online answers range from “Wrong” to “Holy crap you’re wrong!” I’m writing myself a note to check my biographies of Napoleon. They are in my classroom and currently inaccessible. As far as I can tell, the 2005 thread here was totally wrong on all counts, and I have yet to find any reliable source that says the **French** ever referred to Napoleon as the “Little Corporal.” It seems to be a derogatory nickname given by the **English**. Research continues. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-risen-from-the-lowest-possible-military-rank-to-the-highest/804946/39 "2017-12-21T19:19:50Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Nathan Bedford Forrest enlisted as a private at the outset of the Civil War and was a major general within a couple of years. > > [Nathan Bedford Forrest - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Bedford_Forrest) Actually, better yet, he ended up as a lieutenant general. He’s the only man in either the U.S. or C.S. Army to do that in the Civil War. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2017, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-risen-from-the-lowest-possible-military-rank-to-the-highest/804946/40 "2017-12-21T21:15:16Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Great username/Freudian-slip-link combo! > > That’s what happens when you’re trying to post here and figure out what’s for dinner at the same time. :o [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-risen-from-the-lowest-possible-military-rank-to-the-highest/804946.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-ever-risen-from-the-lowest-possible-military-rank-to-the-highest/804946.md?page=3)