# Has anyone got a copy or even heard of this book? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [August 31, 2007, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-got-a-copy-or-even-heard-of-this-book/417668 "2007-08-31T20:41:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-got-a-copy-or-even-heard-of-this-book/417668/1 "2007-08-31T20:41:24Z")
\*Napoleon’s Book Of Legerdemain (or Leger Demain) \* I’m not sure if the book even exists but would be very interested to hear from anyone who has ever seen a copy of it or owns a copy. Thanks, An Gadaí ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2007, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-got-a-copy-or-even-heard-of-this-book/417668/2 "2007-08-31T22:19:07Z")
You probably mean [Napoleon’s Book of Fate, by H. Kirchenhoffer (Translator)](http://www.amazon.co.uk/Napoleons-Book-Fate-H-Kirchenhoffer/dp/0850306841) at [amazon.co.uk](http://amazon.co.uk). Cheap modern versions available there and throughout the Internet. Here’s a better [cite for the original](http://www.cellarstories.com/cgi-bin/cellarstories/003084.html): > [@](#): > > Author: Kirchenhoffer, H. > Title: The Oracle or Book of Fate… > Description: London M. Arnold 1835 22nd edition 8vo 74 (31+32+11) pp. Original cloth spine worn, soiled, chipped, missing 1 1/2" bottom edge; boards quite worn at edges, heavily foxed. Folding “oracle” chart complete but split along creases 4-5", detached from original location (preceded title page), laid in. Front cover loose. Interior heavily foxed throughout. Title page continued: “…Formerly in the Possession of the Emperor Napoleon, and Now First Rendered into English, From a German Translation, of an Ancient Egyptian Manuscript, Found in the Year 1801, by M. Sonnini, in One of the Royal Tombs, Near Nount Libycus, in Upper Egypt.” 31 pp. introduction/history, including Hermes Trismigestus ; 32 pp. of prophecies according to the chart; 11 pp. further prophecies, significance of days of the month and week, astrology. News clipping laid in: November 17, 1918 (unknown American newspaper ), regarding prophecies made by a 16th century monk, Brother Johannes, about WWI’s outcome. Fair Item # 003084 $97.50 It has as much to do with Napoleon as I do, IMHO. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2007, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-got-a-copy-or-even-heard-of-this-book/417668/3 "2007-09-01T01:15:38Z")
No I’m fairly certain this book had leger-demain in the title. That book seems similar to what I’m looking for but I believe the book I’m looking for had spells one could cast or something like that. I’m aware that the book had little or nothing to do with Napoleon. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2007, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-got-a-copy-or-even-heard-of-this-book/417668/4 "2007-09-01T03:48:54Z")
Then I’m stumped. I can find nothing that has both Napoleon and Legerdemain in the title. However, Napoleon’s Book of Fate does contain ways of consulting the oracle, as detailed on [this page](http://www.paranormality.com/napoleon_fate_book.shtml), which is pretty close to spell casting. ---
**Author:** ![capybara](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/capybara/32/202_2.png) [@capybara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capybara)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2007, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-got-a-copy-or-even-heard-of-this-book/417668/5 "2007-09-01T03:55:51Z")
Ok, An Gadai, where did you hear of it–this would help very much. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2007, 11:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-got-a-copy-or-even-heard-of-this-book/417668/6 "2007-09-01T11:45:18Z")
Well I heard of it from my dad. There was an incident in his locality (rural Northern Ireland) during the 19th century where a woman is said to have conjured up a demon. It was a story my dad used to tell alot. I can’t recall all the details but I believe he said it contained the warning “Read Me Through But Peruse Me Not, Fore If You Do Then Hellfire Be Thy Lot” In the story this was not heeded. Anyway he looked for the book and apparently found a book with a similar title in the library of Trinity College, Dublin. However when he went to view the book the librarian said they had no record of it, even though he had rung them previously to put the book on hold. Unfortunately my dad died last year so I can’t verify with him the title but I’m near 100% that was the title he had for it. In case anyone’s wondering I have no intention of summoning demons I’m just curious if the book is extant 😃 . The full story went something along the lines that a local druid/magician type chap had the book in his possession and that his sister took it without his permission. Having not heeded the warning she cast a spell and a demon/devil appeared in the glen nearby. A local farmer went to confront the demon with his pitchfork and dog. The dog came cowering back and the farmer’s pitchfork was melted. The story goes that it took another local druid/magician to cast a counter spell and send the demon back from whence it came. Although I don’t think my dad believed the story literally (the truth never getting in the way of a good story) he had heard about it so much that he was sure that there was some unusual event as the kernel for the story. Anyway there you have it, that’s where I heard of the book. I know it’s not alot to work with and I appreciate that but maybe someone much more knowledgable than myself might have come across the book. Thanks for your help, An Gadaí ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2007, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-got-a-copy-or-even-heard-of-this-book/417668/7 "2007-09-01T11:52:21Z")
I think I’m going to have to suggest the idea that your dad had a bit of a sense of humor… It sounds to me like he fashioned a tall tale from some memory about the Book of Fate. ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2007, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-got-a-copy-or-even-heard-of-this-book/417668/8 "2007-09-01T14:44:18Z")
OCLC’s World Cat hasn’t got it. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2007, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-got-a-copy-or-even-heard-of-this-book/417668/9 "2007-09-01T15:12:06Z")
[QUOTE=An Gadaí] No I’m fairly certain this book had leger-demain in the title. That book seems similar to what I’m looking for but I believe the book I’m looking for had spells one could cast or something like that. I’m aware that the book had little or nothing to do with Napoleon. [/QUOTE] Well, which is easier to believe? That your dad got the title wrong or that a book with _almost exactly_ the right title exists but is the wrong one and that nobody can find a book with the right title? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2007, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-got-a-copy-or-even-heard-of-this-book/417668/10 "2007-09-01T17:48:32Z")
Dad wouldn’t lie about something like that… ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2007, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-got-a-copy-or-even-heard-of-this-book/417668/11 "2007-09-01T19:20:50Z")
It is entirely possible that my dad got the title of the book wrong or for that matter that the book never existed in the first place. That’s why I asked about it, to find out whether it actually exists or existed. I recall that my dad emphasised the legerdemain part of the title so maybe the book he found was “_Somebody else’s_ book of legerdemain”. However, I’ll try get a copy of that Book of Fate and have a look, thanks for your help **Exapno Mapcase** and **Kneadtoknow**. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2007, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-got-a-copy-or-even-heard-of-this-book/417668/12 "2007-09-01T20:38:25Z")
[QUOTE=An Gadaí] I recall that my dad emphasised the legerdemain part of the title so maybe the book he found was “_Somebody else’s_ book of legerdemain”. [/QUOTE] Possible, but not likely. I’ve searched for that as well, and nothing remotely resembling the book you want comes up. This book looks pretty special, though. 🙂 Pencil Legerdemain by F. G. Thayer (Paperback - Jan 1, 0001) ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2007, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-got-a-copy-or-even-heard-of-this-book/417668/13 "2007-09-01T20:53:07Z")
Spooky, it’s like the book never EVEN EXISTED IN THE FIRST PLACE!!! DEN DEN DEN!! 🙂 Maybe I should have a seance and try and find out from my dad what the name of the book was. Thanks again.