# Has anyone had a bad experience with DeMolay / Freemasons/Order of the Eastern Star? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 6, 2005, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212 "2005-07-06T00:03:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 1:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/41 "2013-06-05T01:55:09Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Not a word you want to throw out there when answering a post from 8 years ago. Why not? It’s not like **Cartooniverse** is no longer an idiot. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/42 "2013-06-05T03:02:52Z")
> [@Rhythmdvl](#): > > (Kind of weird to think of 2005 as such a barbaric, desolate time without YouTube.) I honestly don’t know how we functioned, like an existence without Google. It’s good to see my posts haven’t aged, being as stupid now as they were in 2005. But I didn’t confess my bad experience with the Masons, and I need to come clean if I’m to sleep tonight: I find them boring. There, I said it! I feel so much better. ---
**Author:** ![LouisB](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/dfb087/32.png) [@LouisB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LouisB)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 10:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/43 "2013-06-05T10:15:39Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > I honestly don’t know how we functioned, like an existence without Google. > > It’s good to see my posts haven’t aged, being as stupid now as they were in 2005. But I didn’t confess my bad experience with the Masons, and I need to come clean if I’m to sleep tonight: > > I find them boring. > > There, I said it! I feel so much better. A member of our anti-defamation league will be calling on you in the near future. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/44 "2013-06-05T11:07:10Z")
How about some answers from a DeMolay, me? > [@](#): > > Don’t get me started on DeMolay. My 12 year old nephew was sucked into those people’s claws. Sucked into? Hmm…last I heard, the teens needed a parent’s permission to join. > [@](#): > > I ask what he does when he goes away with total strangers ( all men ) for a weekend. He says it’s a secret. No shit. A secret? I ask his parents. They say it’s private and they cannot know. No shit. A private secret weekend get-away for adult men and 12 year old boys. Uh huh. F\*\*\*\*rs. Complete and utter bullshit. There are secrets, but those are the ones regarding the ritual. The ritual is basically a boy’s club’s secret password dressed up with candles, robes, and long toy swords. Trips always required a signed permission and insurance form from the member’s parent or legal guardian. > [@](#): > > I called his Youth Leader, and was directed to the State Youth Leader in Pennsylvania for DeMolay. I asked him two or three very pointed questions pertaining to activities, supervision and whatnot. I was given in return the biggest loads of shit one can possibly imagine ( and no answers whatsoever ). I called the guy on his shit, and his tone turned cold and he informed me that he had nothing to tell me. That it was private. Maybe he was having you. Anyway, all activities are required to have an adult present. Well, of course, going to the loo doesn’t require that; I’m talking about club activities. My chapter had all kinds of activities: bowling, billiards, swimming (not naked), camping, debating, and a few others. > [@](#): > > Private. Between the men and the boys. Oh yeah? F\*\*\*rs. Well, my experience with DeMolay and the experience of my DeMolay friends I’ve met over the years is opposite your rant. If the chapter in question is being that secretive about their activities, they’re violating the group’s rules right off the bat. > [@](#): > > So I called the Pennsylvania Attorney General’s office, and lo and behold I find out that I am not the first adult to call and ask about these jokers. They’ve got quite a file on them. Why? Because it’s 1996 ( at the time ) and not 1352 and men who dig taking 12 year old boys away for a weekend of “secret and very private” activities can expect to answer to the Attorney General. > > F\*\*\*\*rs. Again, lest we miss the subtle point, pedophile lying secretive bastards. Just for fun, you wouldn’t happen to have anything approaching actual evidence that any crimes occurred, would you? > [@](#): > > Yes, I do believe that covers it. Oh, wait- we have DeMolay fans reading? EXCELLENT. Do be good honest moral upstanding adults and answer the questions that nobody in DeMolay was permitted to answer. Anyone who is game, sound up and I will be oh so incredibly happy to outline every single query that was refused by The Youth Leader of Demolay for Pennsylvania. Well, I’m a DeMolay and I’m fully aware that one can resign from the club, one is required to have an adult present at club activities, and that members are not to hoodwink their parents. > [@](#): > > Otherwise, well… who is worse? The pedophile or the other adults who cover for him? Hmmmm ? What about total assholes who cast aspersions without evidence? Where do they fit in this matrix? > [@](#): > > You wanna join a private secret special society when you are 21 and an adult and entirely responsible for your actions? Right the heck on, welcome to America. You want to run a private society for underage boys that refuses to disclose ANYTHING about your rituals, behaviors, activities or whereabouts when travelling with other people’s boys? Then, we gotta problem. Well, Houston, your description of DeMolay is inaccurate. Sounds like DeMolay’s not the problem. > [@](#): > > As for my nephew, this was a few years ago. He got out, but it was NOT easy. It’s incredibly fucking easy to get out of DeMolay. Resign or simply stop going. > [@](#): > > Apparently whatever they did to him and with him, to this day he is too frightened to discuss it. Some fuckin’ social service organization. I might suggest that it insults the Knights of Columbus, Lions, Rotary Club and American Legion to be lumped in with the Freemasons and their underage boys club, DeMolay. What’s insulting is your inaccurate tarring of the DeMolay for what appears to be something that’s just speculation on your part. Hell, you can get some answers to your questions right off the bat [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeMolay). You can get answers [here](http://www.demolay.org/). And if you’re not thrilled with the answers you got (or didn’t get) from the local or state level, you can call the national level. So, what did I miss? Weekend events were always camps just like any other boys’ club or “conclave” which is a state-wide meeting of DeMolays. There were various activities there, none of which involved hopping into bed with the adult male chaperones or with any of the other boys. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/45 "2013-06-05T11:12:58Z")
Drat! It’s a zombie thread! ---
**Author:** ![Bridget\_Burke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7cd45c/32.png) [@Bridget\_Burke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bridget_Burke)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/46 "2013-06-05T12:29:34Z")
I’ll bet some guy now all grown up is still chuckling about how he freaked out his Uncle Cartooniverse. The old guy will believe _anything!_ ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Panda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ee7513/32.png) [@Darth\_Panda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Panda)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/47 "2013-06-05T12:32:58Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Drat! It’s a zombie thread! Yeah, those kids are totally legal by now. ---
**Author:** ![Harvey\_The\_Heavy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Harvey\_The\_Heavy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harvey_The_Heavy)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/48 "2013-06-05T13:53:41Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > I’ll bet some guy now all grown up is still chuckling about how he freaked out his Uncle Cartooniverse. The old guy will believe _anything!_ Yeah, that’s about my take on it. If I had an uncle prone to these kind of rants, I probably wouldn’t be very forthcoming either. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/49 "2013-06-05T16:09:19Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > How about some answers from a DeMolay, me? Just so long as you watch what you say, and do not incur the fearful penalty of having your eyeball pierced to the center with a three-edged blade. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/50 "2013-06-05T16:25:26Z")
> [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > I’ll bet some guy now all grown up is still chuckling about how he freaked out his Uncle Cartooniverse. The old guy will believe _anything!_ In all fairness, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be concerned about an organization that sends children on secret camping trips (or whatever) and refuses to disclose how those trips are supervised, and so on (notwithstanding their apparent policy.) ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/51 "2013-06-05T17:21:25Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > In all fairness, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be concerned about an organization that sends children on secret camping trips (or whatever) and refuses to disclose how those trips are supervised… To the crackpot uncles of their members? After a signed insurance form from the parent? I have never been a member of Demolay, but if I were the attorney general of my state and some nutcase called me up worried that his nephew was going to be attacked by perverted Shriners on a camping trip, I might not necessarily wet myself in terror. IYSWIM. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/52 "2013-06-05T19:03:18Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > In all fairness, I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be concerned about an organization that sends children on secret camping trips (or whatever) and refuses to disclose how those trips are supervised, and so on (notwithstanding their apparent policy.) If you find such an organization please let us know. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/53 "2013-06-05T20:07:16Z")
It’s all super double plus secret because they are training all your chldren to help them take over the world. And steal our precious bodily fluids. Yeah. that’s the ticket. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/54 "2013-06-05T20:09:32Z")
Once again-eight years ago, people. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2013, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/55 "2013-06-05T20:16:24Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Once again-eight years ago, people. It’s SO secret, I just found out? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![AngelSoft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelsoft/32/440_2.png) [@AngelSoft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelSoft)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/56 "2013-06-06T06:16:31Z")
> [@Darth\_Panda](#): > > What on Earth were you Googling for that led you to an 8 year old thread about someone thinking the DeMolay order had some kind of pedophilia operation going on? > > eta: Oh, and welcome to the Straight Dope. Nice first post. And why the hell did you put your daughter into Rainbow and not Job’s Daughters? Clearly she had the required Masonic relative. For shame! JDs over Rainbow any day!.. Though that floaty walk IS awesome… ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/57 "2013-06-06T15:22:57Z")
Well, the whole “rainbow” thing…could get kinda confusing. ---
**Author:** ![MOIDALIZE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e274bd/32.png) [@MOIDALIZE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MOIDALIZE)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/58 "2013-06-06T15:38:57Z")
Holy DeMolay! A zombie thread! ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/59 "2013-06-07T02:03:09Z")
Heh. This is funny. I don’t remember writing my post in this thread at all. Everything I said is right though. Monty’s is spot on as well. AngelSoft’s is slightly wrong - Rainbow Girls were better - ummm, let’s just say partiers - than JDs, so, for a teenage boy, better. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/60 "2013-06-07T04:05:05Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Heh. This is funny. I don’t remember writing my post in this thread at all. Everything I said is right though. Monty’s is spot on as well. AngelSoft’s is slightly wrong - Rainbow Girls were better - ummm, let’s just say partiers - than JDs, so, for a teenage boy, better. When I was active in DeMolay, our area had both Job’s Daughters and Rainbow Girls. We also had Knighthood, which was kind of fun, but more businesslike than “standard” DeMolay. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212.md?page=4)