# Has anyone had a bad experience with DeMolay / Freemasons/Order of the Eastern Star? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 6, 2005, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212 "2005-07-06T00:03:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/61 "2013-06-07T04:14:00Z")
Speaking of Masonic-sponsored youth organizations, [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_of_Pythagoras#Youth_organizations) is a short list from Wikipedia. ---
**Author:** ![AngelSoft](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angelsoft/32/440_2.png) [@AngelSoft](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AngelSoft)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/62 "2013-06-07T04:37:04Z")
> [@Zakalwe](#): > > Heh. This is funny. I don’t remember writing my post in this thread at all. Everything I said is right though. Monty’s is spot on as well. AngelSoft’s is slightly wrong - Rainbow Girls were better - ummm, let’s just say partiers - than JDs, so, for a teenage boy, better. Proof positive why it’s better to put your daughters in JD and not Rainbow. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2013, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/63 "2013-06-07T22:17:12Z")
Idiot? Wow. > [@Aubriella](#): > > I am the parent of a Demolay and a Rainbow girl. Any parent is welcome to sit in on any of their “Secret” meetings. Utter lie. I tried. Was informed unless a Mason had invited my son into Demolay already and he was a secrecy-sworn member, I had no place at those meetings. It was my brother’s son I was concerned about. I was refused all access. > [@](#): > > I did for the first long while but decided to stop before I died of boredom. Honestly the secrecy is just to make them feel special, like they know something we don’t, they even have secret knocks and handshakes. They don’t molest the children and don’t discuss anything worthy of keeping secret. Oh? [Don’t tell me that children in that organization](http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2199&dat=19940107&id=u7UyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=quYFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3538,1985992) [are safe](http://freemasonrywatch.org/molestation.html) [from sexual abuse from within Demolay](http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/local/news/paedophile-teacher-beat-boys-mercilessly-with-hosepipe-1-85930) [and The Masons](http://cjonline.com/news/2013-04-04/teen-charged-sex-crimes-worked-bus-monitor). Just four of many many instances of child rape by Demolay adult supervisors. Moving on… > [@](#): > > They both just do community service and make friends. We are not Christian, my son is a Buddhist, the Masons are a Christian based group but allow all who believe in something higher than themselves, as long as they have some kind of family relation to the Masons. My father’s family are all Masons, and my Aunt is an Easter Star. I could join but I’m just not into the dressing up and the ceremonies. It’s just a Do Gooders club (no offense meant) that likes to pretend to be sneaky and secretive. I would tell you more but made a promise not to reveal their “secrets”, which are silly and no one would care to know anyways. So? Read the banner at the top of the page. We’re interested in fighting ignorance. Since every single NON-member of the Masons is ignorant 100% as to the secret sneaky traditions and rules and behaviors, why not assume the truth here- that we broker in real truths. Tell us everything if it’s just “silly”. We’re waiting. > [@](#): > > This is just a big deal about nothing, I think the secrecy is just a tradition from when the Knights Templar were prosecuted and in danger of all being put to death so they had to be sneaky to live. My kids have both learned a lot about being a beneficial part of the community and have become part of a wonderful extended family, I know the Masons world wide would have their back if needed. How wonderful for your children that they escaped unscathed and have good memories of the experience. [A history of the Knights Templar](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar). Wiki. By no means exhaustive, but I trust an overview delivered here as well as anywhere else. The poster I am replying to attempts to convince that all faiths are welcome, that Masons are not Christian-centric. Since the decline of the Knights Templar was accelerated by the rise of Islam, I would be very curious to see hard numbers on the percentage of Masons and Demolay and Rainbow that are Muslim. I suspect it’s a number too small to count. Still, we’re about fighting ignorance here. Hard numbers on the percentage of Muslims who are currently Masons, please. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/64 "2013-06-08T01:08:51Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Idiot? Wow. Yes, you’re an idiot in this thread. “Wow,” indeed. > [@](#): > > Utter lie. I tried. Was informed unless a Mason had invited my son into Demolay already and he was a secrecy-sworn member, I had no place at those meetings. It was my brother’s son I was concerned about. I was refused all access. You were refused access to the closed ritual. Do you know why? Because your son wasn’t in the club. Your brother, being the actual parent of a person actually in the club, would be permitted access. Why is that so hard for you to understand? > [@](#): > > Oh? [Don’t tell me that children in that organization](http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2199&dat=19940107&id=u7UyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=quYFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3538,1985992) [are safe](http://freemasonrywatch.org/molestation.html) [from sexual abuse from within Demolay](http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/news/local/news/paedophile-teacher-beat-boys-mercilessly-with-hosepipe-1-85930) [and The Masons](http://cjonline.com/news/2013-04-04/teen-charged-sex-crimes-worked-bus-monitor). Just four of many many instances of child rape by Demolay adult supervisors. So that’s four. How many instances were there? How many instances have not been addressed by the legal authorities? > [@](#): > > Moving on… > > So? Read the banner at the top of the page. We’re interested in fighting ignorance. That’s right. It’d be nifty if you’d try not to spread more ignorance like you’re doing in this thread. > [@](#): > > Since every single NON-member of the Masons is ignorant 100% as to the secret sneaky traditions and rules and behaviors, why not assume the truth here- that we broker in real truths. Tell us everything if it’s just “silly”. We’re waiting. Wait on. “Secret sneaky traditions and rules and behaviors,” huh? You prove yet again that you’re being an idiot in this thread. > [@](#): > > How wonderful for your children that they escaped unscathed and have good memories of the experience. Everyone I know who was involved in Freemasonry (Blue Lodge, Scottish Rite, York Rite, Prince Hall, Eastern Star, Shriners) and its appendant bodies (, DeMolay and Knighthood, Job’s Daughters, Rainbow Girls, etc.), in various states in the US, in American communities in South Korea and Japan, and both Americans and Germans in Germany escaped unscathed. That’s because the incrediby vast majority of the members and their leaders are not out barebacking all the nubile teens like you’re pretending it’s set up for. > [@](#): > > [A history of the Knights Templar](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar). Wiki. By no means exhaustive, but I trust an overview delivered here as well as anywhere else. The poster I am replying to attempts to convince that all faiths are welcome, All faiths are welcome in Freemasonry provided that faith has the concept of a supreme being. And, yes, even Buddhists have been known to join. One of my platoon-mates when we were stationed in Monterey is a DeMolay and a Buddhist. There are specialty clubs within Freemasonry for those specifically of one faith. > [@](#): > > that Masons are not Christian-centric. They’re not. There have been Buddhists, Christians, Jews, and even Muslims in Freemasonry. > [@](#): > > Since the decline of the Knights Templar was accelerated by the rise of Islam, I would be very curious to see hard numbers on the percentage of Masons and Demolay and Rainbow that are Muslim. Are you purposely being this idiotic? The Knights Templar which declined due to the rise of Islam is not the same group as the Masonic group known as Knights Templar. > [@](#): > > I suspect it’s a number too small to count. Well, given that the club began in western Europe at a time when damn near everyone in said region happened to not be Muslim, it’s not that big a surprise that Muslims simply haven’t had a tradition of joining Freemasonry for the most part in Islamic countries, and, continued that tradition of not joining over to the countries where they’ve immigrated. [Here](http://www.freemasons-freemasonry.com/freemasonry-islamic-countries.html) is a site about Freemasonry in Islamic countries. There’s a bullet list from an Islamic authority on reasons why Muslims should not join Freemasonry. The bullet list has some laughable assertions, but the fact is that authority promulgated the list as a basis for its decision. It’s really not far different from the rationale the Papacy used to prohibit Roman Catholics from joining. (I do not know if Roman Catholics are still barred by their Church from joining; I do know, on the other hand, a number of Roman Catholics who were in my DeMolay chapter and Knighthood Priory.) > [@](#): > > Still, we’re about fighting ignorance here. Hard numbers on the percentage of Muslims who are currently Masons, please. Well, since a candidate’s religion is not specifically asked, do you think that’s even possible to get that information? Want some advice? Here it is: Get a grip, man. ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/65 "2013-06-08T01:28:07Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > You were refused access to the closed ritual. Do you know why? Because your son wasn’t in the club. Your brother, being the actual parent of a person actually in the club, would be permitted access. Why is that so hard for you to understand? Got nothing to hide? Let family in. Oh wait, I thought this was such a family-centric group. What’s to hide then? > [@](#): > > So that’s four. How many instances were there? How many instances have not been addressed by the legal authorities? You do realize how utterly inane that last question is, don’t you? " How many crimes were committed that the authorities don’t know about?! Answer up!" Moron. > [@](#): > > That’s right. It’d be nifty if you’d try not to spread more ignorance like you’re doing in this thread. Spreading ignorance? Well, if you’re accusing me of making up fictitious cites, then yes. I’ve spread ignorance. If you admit the sexual assaults detailed in the cites are real, then I’ve used cite to prove my point. Not to spread ignorance. Why are you struggling with the idea that Demolay is unsafe for some children? > [@](#): > > Wait on. “Secret sneaky traditions and rules and behaviors,” huh? You prove yet again that you’re being an idiot in this thread. If they’re not secret, then someone should come on in here and share them. > [@](#): > > Everyone I know who was involved in Freemasonry (Blue Lodge, Scottish Rite, York Rite, Prince Hall, Eastern Star, Shriners) and its appendant bodies (, DeMolay and Knighthood, Job’s Daughters, Rainbow Girls, etc.), in various states in the US, in American communities in South Korea and Japan, and both Americans and Germans in Germany escaped unscathed. That’s because the incrediby vast majority of the members and their leaders are not out barebacking all the nubile teens like you’re pretending it’s set up for. How coy of you. Why, I’d expect better of a Scientific Advisor. Let me slowly explain this to you since the cites given apparently are regarded by you as whole cloth fiction. You can name as many countries as you wish. As many silly club names as you can dredge up. The irrefutable fact remains that a secret organization that aggressively fights being observed and refuses to answer questions about its practices has within it sexual predators. You can say it doesn’t. You can say the cites provided are lies. Just because you badly need to believe that doesn’t make it the truth. > [@](#): > > Are you purposely being this idiotic? The Knights Templar which declined due to the rise of Islam is not the same group as the Masonic group known as Knights Templar. [Freemasonry](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar_%28Freemasonry%29) > [@](#): > > The Order derives its name from the historical Knights Templar, but does not claim any direct lineal descent from the original Templar order. Agreed- not the same group, even though their name is derived from it. So, fair to say, inspired on some levels by them. Otherwise, why did these wise and wholesome chaps take the name?:dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Cartooniverse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cartooniverse/32/3084_2.png) [@Cartooniverse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cartooniverse)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 1:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/66 "2013-06-08T01:37:55Z")
I’ve been advised to change my tune and get a grip. So, you’re entirely correct in everything you said your last post, **Monty**. Grip gotten on my way out the door. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/67 "2013-06-08T01:50:45Z")
Nowhere did I assert that the cites you provided are fiction. I simply pointed out that you’re condemning an entire group for the illegal actions of a very few. Why did the current Knights Templar take the name? Same reason as any group at the time it was founded take whatever name they took: they liked the sound of the name, they liked what they thought it stands for. Speaking of [what it stands for today](http://www.knightstemplar.org/faq.html): > [@](#): > > The Order of Knights Templar Today > > The Order of Knights Templar today exists as the top ranking Masonic organization in the York Rite of Freemasonry. The Order today requires membership in a Chapter of Royal Arch Masons and in some jurisdictions, membership in a Council of Royal and Select Masters. > > The Knights Templar is a Christian-oriented fraternal organization based on the ancient organization that was founded in the 11th century. Today, the Knights Templar display their courage and goodwill in different ways than the ancient Templars. Members of the Order today organize fund-raising activities such as breakfasts, dinners, dances and flea markets for the support of Masonic-related youth groups, in addition to raising millions of dollars for charitable purposes. This from you is ridiculous: > [@](#): > > The irrefutable fact remains that a secret organization that aggressively fights being observed and refuses to answer questions about its practices has within it sexual predators. The fact is that Freemasonry is not a secret organization. Hey, it was so secret you even knew where the meetings are held, what time, and who’s there! Freemasonry dosn’t aggressively fight being observed nor do they refuse to answer questions about their practices and purposes. Well, there is the little bit about the club password, but that’s not at all what you’re pretending it is. In addition to my advice above for you to get a grip, here’s some more advice: Don’t pretend I said something I did not say. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 9:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/68 "2013-06-08T09:57:21Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Got nothing to hide? Let family in. Oh wait, I thought this was such a family-centric group. What’s to hide then? When you called this organization up, did you offer any verification that you were,in fact, related to one of the children in their organization? Even if you did establish your identity, do you think it would be remotely appropriate for this organization to divulge any information about a minor child under their care to you with out the express permission of the child’s legal guardian? Do your nephew’s parents know that you make a habit of investigating your nephew’s social life for pedophiles? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 10:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/69 "2013-06-08T10:07:48Z")
**Miller** : See post #66. Evidently (heh, heh) things weren’t going his way and he’s “on [his] way out the door.” ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/70 "2013-06-08T13:13:43Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > When I was active in DeMolay, our area had both Job’s Daughters and Rainbow Girls. We also had Knighthood, which was kind of fun, but more businesslike than “standard” DeMolay. Ditto. Knighthood was kind of cool, but Knighthood groups were more regional in nature as no one city here in rural North Florida had enough boys to support one (IIRC Knighthood was restricted to older Demolays. 16+?). Which was really one of the benefits as it let you get to know Demolays from other chapters. > [@AngelSoft](#): > > Proof positive why it’s better to put your daughters in JD and not Rainbow. 😛 Still it just seemed like the Rainbow’s had more fun in general. I suspect that local variation has a LOT to do with it though - the group with more engaged advisors and/or a better cadre of older girls willing to participate will be the “better” one in a given area. For you that was JD, around here it was RG (at least in the early-to-late eighties. No idea what the landscape is now. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/71 "2013-06-08T15:02:23Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > [Freemasonry](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar_%28Freemasonry%29) Agreed- not the same group, even though their name is derived from it. So, fair to say, inspired on some levels by them. Otherwise, why did these wise and wholesome chaps take the name?:dubious: Because “We’re descended from an ancient order of noble Christian knights” sounds better than “We were founded by a bunch of rich guys who took over a medieval craft guild for their social club”? ---
**Author:** ![sherman92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@sherman92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sherman92)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/72 "2013-09-18T22:39:39Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Over in [This MPSIMS thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6333956), I expressed some concerns regarding the trust and secrecy issues enforced upon minor children of both genders by the Freemasons. > > I’ll quote back from my post in there to explain my concern: > So, there you have it. I am respecting the wishes of the OP’er, and starting a totally separate thread so that his is not hijacked any more. > > Are there any Dopers out there who have had negative or damaging or upsetting dealings with these groups who feel they can share them in the Dope? I would be highly surprised if my nephew is the only 12 year old boy ever told he’s not allowed to tell anyone what he does when he goes away with adult men for the weekend. Not his Mom, not his Dad, not his uncle ( me ). Nobody, pretty much. See, it’s secret. > > Secret. So here’s your chance to unburden some of those secrets. My nephew got out, but not easily. To this day he cannot talk about what happened during the years he was involved in DeMolay. > > Are there any Dopers out there who can? > > Since this is feeling like a poll of sorts, I’ve posted it into IMHO. > > Cartooniverse I have to say that I respect your opinion however your one hundred percent wrong. I tried doing other groups such as boy scouts which is hell of a lot worse. Because your in the middle of no where with a scout leader. Demolay I really fit in. Because the people were nicer and when we did over night trips the boys roomed by ourselves with other chapter brothers and advisors would be clear on the other floor in the hotel. I am a senior DeMolay I aged out but now I am a advisor in the local chapter. What your insinuating has never happened ever to my knowledge because the adults aren’t involved. Its the boys organization they plan it all we just advise and attend so that people like your nephew don’t get hurt. For my chapter of thirty something boys there are only two advisors needed to keep a eye out. Demolay and other mason organizations have played a huge role in my life. I entered a essay completion for DeMolay in high school and I was able to travel to Anaheim California to attend their international session and went to Disney land for free. And I barely saw the advisors the entire weekend. Its a wonderful opportunity for young men and it teaches them to be better. ---
**Author:** ![sherman92](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a183cd/32.png) [@sherman92](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sherman92)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/73 "2013-09-18T22:43:01Z")
> [@Cartooniverse](#): > > Over in [This MPSIMS thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=6333956), I expressed some concerns regarding the trust and secrecy issues enforced upon minor children of both genders by the Freemasons. > > I’ll quote back from my post in there to explain my concern: > So, there you have it. I am respecting the wishes of the OP’er, and starting a totally separate thread so that his is not hijacked any more. > > Are there any Dopers out there who have had negative or damaging or upsetting dealings with these groups who feel they can share them in the Dope? I would be highly surprised if my nephew is the only 12 year old boy ever told he’s not allowed to tell anyone what he does when he goes away with adult men for the weekend. Not his Mom, not his Dad, not his uncle ( me ). Nobody, pretty much. See, it’s secret. > > Secret. So here’s your chance to unburden some of those secrets. My nephew got out, but not easily. To this day he cannot talk about what happened during the years he was involved in DeMolay. > > Are there any Dopers out there who can? > > Since this is feeling like a poll of sorts, I’ve posted it into IMHO. > > Cartooniverse Also, you could have easily fixed the problem if you attended the initiation of your nephew theres a line for family members that invite you to get involved. And you can be able to know all those things ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 18, 2013, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/74 "2013-09-18T23:14:00Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > **Miller** : See post #66. Evidently (heh, heh) things weren’t going his way and he’s “on [his] way out the door.” Sneer all you like, dude was beating you to death in this thread. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/75 "2013-09-19T00:31:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally Posted by Cartooniverse View Post > > Secret. So here’s your chance to unburden some of those secrets. My nephew got out, but not easily. To this day he cannot talk about what happened during the years he was involved in DeMolay. “cannot talk about what happened?” You mean the rules do not allow him to do so, or he has some weird psychological reaction? It’s a secret fraternity. Surely you are familiar with secret fraternities and clubs. They are all over the place. Personally, I find the secrecy of these kinds of organizations preposterous and would never join one. But different strokes for different folks. And you do need to “get a grip.” You are his uncle, not his father or guardian. Why do you care? If you have any reasonable suspicion based on evidence that molestation of some such criminal activity is going on, report it to the police. You have none. That doesn’t mean it never happens. Those crimes go on all over the world, but that doesn’t mean that each and every chapter is abusing its members, or that it is even frequent. You seem to be irrationally going off on the fact that the boys have a secret that they have promised not to tell you about their handshakes, rituals and so forth and are trying to find out by suggesting that someone in this chapter is up to no-good. Without any evidence other than you’ve been told it is none of your business. Well, it is none of your business unless you suspect a crime based on something other than being outside the circle. Frankly, you come off as a really creepy uncle in this thread, which is far from your usual posting. If you really want to find out what a particular masonic order does, go down to your local library or local masonic book shop and look at the books they have. It isn’t really that secret. It is a legit youth organization, that like all youth organizations, has from time to time attracted secret pedophiles, who are prosecuted when found out. But on the whole, it does the boys a lot of good to find a place where they can fit in during their teen years. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 2:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/76 "2013-09-19T02:24:44Z")
> [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](#): > > As to the OP, nope. > > Well I got food poisoning from a late dinner after a Lodge meeting once. Elsewise, nope not at all. Yeah, that’s how they got Mozart . . . ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/77 "2013-09-19T03:01:07Z")
Just a note that this is a newly re-zombified thread and was originally posted in 2005. Said nephew is now around 20 years old. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/78 "2013-09-19T03:21:30Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Just a note that this is a newly re-zombified thread and was originally posted in 2005. Said nephew is now around 20 years old. And traumatized for life, needle tracks all up and down his cock, hanging around bus-station and truck-stop men’s rooms selling blowjobs . . . ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/79 "2013-09-19T23:01:38Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Sneer all you like, dude was beating you to death in this thread. Evidently your reading’s not much better than sherm’s writing. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2013, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/80 "2013-09-19T23:33:16Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Evidently your reading’s not much better than sherm’s writing. I don’t even have a dog in this fight, but debate is a skill and you got your rhetorical ass kicked. You could be right, you just don’t have much to crow about upon that shit heap of an effort you put forth, which is all I pointed out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212.md?page=5)