# Has anyone had a bad experience with DeMolay / Freemasons/Order of the Eastern Star? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 6, 2005, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212 "2005-07-06T00:03:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/123 "2016-01-29T16:05:16Z")
Joined just to offer your perspective and advance what little discussion there was here. I dig that. Hope you stick around. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/124 "2016-01-29T16:07:12Z")
> [@WeatherSoul](#): > > … > Secret stuff: Here is where I tell all 😉 > When my oldest daughter X was 13 or so, a bunch of kids in our social circle put together a monthly meeting-of-the-minds, so to speak. Was supposed to be a place for them (boys and girls) to gather in a safe social environment. After the first meeting, I asked X how the meeting went and what was discussed. All went well until she got to discussing birth control. I was stunned. Mind you, we educated our kids about sex (as far as they needed at each age), so that they could be aware of what they were going through as they matured, and so that they could make educated decisions as they grew. I was then, and am still, generally opposed to pre-marital sex, for many reasons that I’ll not share here now, but that didn’t equate to keeping my kids in the dark. I never wanted them to be able to look me in the face and say that they “didn’t know”. > > I asked her what adults were present to guide such an important discussion, and she replied that adults were “not allowed”. !!! Not allowed?!? Talk about secret societies! (I’ll go anywhere my children go, if circumstances warrant. I’ve been in my share of women’s rest rooms, much to my embarrassment.) > > It turned out that most of the youths’ parents //agreed// to this “secret” meeting, because they hoped that the older youth would share things with the younger youth that the adults found “uncomfortable” to discuss. What kind of message does that send? Does this encourage bonding twixt parent and child? Does it encourage revealing questionable behaviour to parents? > > I attended the next meeting, and saw X get verbally challenged by the others because I was there. She made it clear that in our house children were allowed to express their own ideas, and even to challenge parental decisions, as long as they were respectful. She said (remember, 13) that she was free to express her ideas in the meeting, even if she knew that I disagreed with them, and fear no consequences when she got home. Most of the other youth did not enjoy this freedom and openness… > > WeatheredSoul So you barged into a meeting in which you were not invited just so you could impose your adult rules on the rest of the kids? And you teach high school? You were clearly not invited to this meeting. If you disagreed with the setup so strongly you should have kept your daughter (an most importantly, yourself) away from the meeting. And what’s so fucking free and open about you being the self-appointed chaperon? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/125 "2016-01-29T16:22:45Z")
Am I the only one confused about how all the “secret stuff” in the second part of the post has anything to do with DeMolay OES? ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/126 "2016-01-29T17:43:36Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Am I the only one confused about how all the “secret stuff” in the second part of the post has anything to do with DeMolay OES? I might be wrong but I took it to mean - Secret societies are OK if adults are present. It’s letting the kids discuss things among themselves that is evil. As a former DeMolay member I agree with the first part of that. Now that I’m an adult I look back on the “secrets” as being constructive fraternal bonding tools based on integrity. The part where he invites himself to his daughter’s meeting is kind of sad. I pity his high school students and his own children if he has so little faith in their integrity that he has to monitor their discussions. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/127 "2016-01-29T19:34:07Z")
Now I’m curious as to how Nephew (NOT SON) of Cartooniverse turned out. ---
**Author:** ![BubbaDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bubbadog/32/333_2.png) [@BubbaDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BubbaDog)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2016, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/128 "2016-01-29T19:47:39Z")
> [@Knowed\_Out](#): > > Now I’m curious as to how Nephew (NOT SON) of Cartooniverse turned out. Based on his exposure to DeMolay I’d guess that he emerged unharmed. Based on his exposure to Cartooniverse I guess it’s 50/50 that he’s all fucked up. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2016, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/129 "2016-01-30T17:21:03Z")
> [@WeatherSoul](#): > > I attended the next meeting, and saw X get verbally challenged by the others because I was there. She made it clear that in our house children were allowed to express their own ideas, and even to challenge parental decisions, as long as they were respectful. She said (remember, 13) that she was free to express her ideas in the meeting[…] Most of the other youth did not enjoy this freedom and openness. The freedom of not being allowed to speak freely between themselves? Even _assuming_ that you daughter actually felt free to speak her mind in your presence (and it’s not like, even if she didn’t, she was going to say so in front of you), most probably the other kids weren’t particularly at ease with discussing private or embarassing matters in the presence of an adult stranger. So basically you robbed them all of the opportunity of an _actually_ free and open exchange, because you thought that somehow you had to know everything your daughter was saying to/hearing from her peers. If it bothered you so much that your daughter could discuss “sensitive” issues with her friends without you being within earshot, you should have pulled her from the meeting instead of intruding into the private discussions they were having to everybody’s (including other parents) satisfaction. ---
**Author:** ![Corruptionkiller](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Corruptionkiller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Corruptionkiller)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/130 "2016-05-03T01:23:12Z")
In 2010 F.B.I. busted Shriners Childrens Hospitals with financing and kidnapping enough children to supply over 192 of Freemasons lodges and shrines of all rites for exclusive use by Master Masons to have sex with children. Over 75% of Shriners Donations funded with up to $600,000.00 dollars per hour of your tax money to run the sex ring and massive pedophile parties (bashes). Indiana Brotherhood Shriners headquartered the ring in Indianapolis where F.B.I. investigations discovered over 18,000 felony predator child violators by name and preference. Shriners lost their non profit status which somehow was regained. Only a few judges were incarcerated out of the ten of thousands involved in the ring which composed of literally all the administrative lodges and shrines nationwide. All highest level freemasons who administer rules, membership, charities were involved. Due to the high level of corrupt masonics in all city, state and federal agencies, political, judicial and law enforcement virtually no one in our nations largest child kidnapping, sex slavery and mass murder has seen bars except a couple. This is the integrity of Freemasonry, D.E.A.'s largest drug cartel to boot. This is why our country has been financially raped. It WILL SOON BE THEIR TURN. I am glad to have participated in closing their money launderer HSBC in Mexico as well as their friends in I.N.M. Mexican Immigration in Mexico City in Feb. 2011. This as a result of kidnappings, attempted murder of whistleblowers of Indiana residents in Mexico (myself) whom were attempting to incarcerate Master Masons in Michigan City, Indiana who are prosecutors and judges who are killing clients, multimillionairs and stealing their assets since 1994. I have witnessed Indiana freemason Barry F. McDonnell disyribute drugs to my brother since I was about 15 or so. In the years I was asked to join them and invest in cocaine distribution in Michigan City and Joliet illinois including insider land fraud run by judges in both cities. I watched them commit crimes against clients whom ended up like me…fleeced of millions but tbey ended up dead. Roger Pecen my first witness discovered their plans to steal my inhetitance. He stated he was going to help me stop them, he was dead in two weeks. Since than many many people have died. I started a documentary and lived in a town called Puert Escondido Mexico where friends of present judges and prosecutors is involved in drug smuggling, mass kidnapping for stem cell research that was responsible fir over 3000 kidnappings and deaths of teens and young adults. The same compound held Mexicos largest methamphetamine lab when almost busted in 2007. The investigation started when two teens washed up on a local puerto escondido beach with their skin burnt off above their elbows. Mexico anti narcos state they were mixing meth chemicals with no protection lasting just a few months. The facility employed Michigan City resident by the name of Kelley a known friend od present judges, prosecutors. The facility closed temporarily after being busted and then a large payoff to silence agents. I was their in puerto and knew contacts that informed me one hour after the gunships returned, they used my home as waypoint. The facility was reopened and the discovery of their employer became evident in court proceedings by these prosecutors associates, residents of michigan city, indiana in Puerto Escondido working in this facility doing mass kidnapping were investigated by SEIDO, MEXICO ATTY GENERAL, US STATE DEP, US MARSHALLS MADE ARRESTS, EXTRADITIONS. FBI in the U.S. blocked all investigation and due process to protect the massive, countrys largest drug cartel…freemasonry. Ohhh and why did all these crimes go without due process just like 18,000 hignest level master masons in our country, all pedophiles? The company hiring these criminals whom Mexican Immigration allowed to commit crimes against humanity for freemasons in Indiana and abroad… The company in court records Zapata Corporation, soon changed to Harbinger Group. Its founder… George Herbert Walker Bush. I have the proof but FBI and all agencies in Indiana protect freemasons which would have met with the electric chair inMichigan City, Indiana… They continue without hinder in mass murder and child slavery en masse as we speak. Read “The Franklin Conspiracy” ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/131 "2016-05-03T01:45:53Z")
You’re a loony. ---
**Author:** ![splatterpunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3be4f8/32.png) [@splatterpunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/splatterpunk)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 1:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/132 "2016-05-03T01:51:16Z")
> [@Corruptionkiller](#): > > …Read “The Franklin Conspiracy” Nope. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/133 "2016-05-03T01:57:28Z")
This is one of those threads that’s just never going to stop giving. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/134 "2016-05-03T02:00:11Z")
I vote this Best Thread Revival EVAR!! ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/135 "2016-05-03T02:06:23Z")
They done stole his paragraph breaks too! Run 'em out on a rail, brother. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/136 "2016-05-03T02:11:49Z")
I thought that perhaps this was the latest salvo of insanity from Franklin Graham. It turns out that it is older than that–although accusing the Shriners is a new twist: [Franklin child prostitution ring allegations](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franklin_child_prostitution_ring_allegations) > [@](#): > > Historian Philip Jenkins explored how hot topics such as the Franklin allegations, whether or not they are worthy of attention or credible on their own merits, are seized by political opportunists for their own purposes. He also described how cases such as the Franklin allegations can acquire credibility, even if they lack any credibility inherently, when reported in various media in a credulous voice. Numerous conspiracy theories evolved and persist, claiming that the alleged abuse was part of a widespread series of crimes including devil worship, cannibalism, drug trafficking, CIA arms dealing and links with the first Bush Administration ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/137 "2016-05-03T02:42:17Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Am I the only one confused about how all the “secret stuff” in the second part of the post has anything to do with DeMolay OES? I’m confused by the claims of institutional, by the rules, secrets in the Catholic Church and the Boy Scouts that kids would be privy to. I was a member of both for a long time as a child and I can recall nothing particularly secretive. As for **Corruptionkiller** , can we keep him? We’ll feed him and brush him and take him for walks whenever he wants to go outside. Or has he already run off? ---
**Author:** ![Zakalwe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zakalwe/32/270_2.png) [@Zakalwe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zakalwe)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/138 "2016-05-03T02:50:18Z")
Wow. My Lodge could barely run a fish-fry fund-raiser, apparently we should have been taking lessons from the Indiana Masons. Those mo-fos are ORGANIZED. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/139 "2016-05-03T02:51:43Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > As for **Corruptionkiller** , can we keep him? We’ll feed him and brush him and take him for walks whenever he wants to go outside. > > Or has he already run off? Of course he has. These clowns never stay. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/140 "2016-05-03T13:16:16Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Of course he has. These clowns never stay. After all, they have to visit all corners to the interwebz, to spread the TRUTH! ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 1:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/141 "2016-05-03T13:36:22Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > As for **Corruptionkiller** , can we keep him? We’ll feed him and brush him and take him for walks whenever he wants to go outside. > > Or has he already run off? Do lizards need to be brushed? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2016, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212/142 "2016-05-03T13:41:40Z")
How is it that I’ve never seen this thread before now? I need to warn people about DeMolay! 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-had-a-bad-experience-with-demolay-freemasons-order-of-the-eastern-star/311212.md?page=8)