# Has anyone here read Michael Moore's "Dude Where's my Country"? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 19, 2004, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-here-read-michael-moores-dude-wheres-my-country/280581 "2004-12-19T00:53:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-here-read-michael-moores-dude-wheres-my-country/280581/41 "2004-12-21T21:12:15Z")
The difference is that Moore backs up his claims with [cites.](http://www.michaelmoore.com/books-films/f911reader/index.php?id=16) ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-here-read-michael-moores-dude-wheres-my-country/280581/42 "2004-12-21T22:00:20Z")
> [@Troy McClure SF](#): > > Why is it that every time someone writes a well-reasoned criticism of Moore, they are always accused of being blinded by political differences or victims of anti-Moore propaganda, and written off? > > If you disagree with my points against Moore, that’s one thing, but I get so very sick of being accused of being part of some hive mind that is, for some reason, incapable of rational thought, just because I dared to say, “hey, I think Moore got this wrong.” > > My political views are pretty similar to his in theory, and where I live, there ain’t a whole lot of Moore-bashing. I still think that Jon Stewart’s indictment of the _Crossfire_ hosts would fit Moore perfectly. Is it really so hard to beleive that a rational, aware, thinking person wouldn’t like Michael Moore’s work? Is the fact that he (gasp) publicly speaks out against President Bush really enough to make him such a sacred cow? Where is the well-reasoned criticism? I have yet to see much. The OP is actually pretty solid, but I was responding to Clothahump’s post. If that’s your version of well-reasoned criticism, then Houston, we got troubles up in here. Your earlier post (which I wasn’t responding to anyway) basically boiled it down to “he’s really popular and it bugs me! Michael Moore fans are just sheep! Sheep, I tells ya!” Note that I didn’t say that about people who are “opposed” to his work - and like I said, while I enjoy it, I don’t exactly consider it the height of analytical reasoning or incisiveness. But I just pointed out that there’s often a serious lack of justification for opinions on the guy. I didn’t say everyone who hates it was a sheep, I just said that they don’t seem to justify their opinions when we talk about him here on the SDMB. I respect others’ rights to disagree, and if someone wants to hate the guy because of his political views, that’s fine too. In fact, I think the culture of political independence and proclaiming one’s nonconformity to the “party line” is really frickin’ silly. That said, what Cloth posted on him didn’t say anything except, basically, “no he’s not! He’s not satyrical or funny at all!” You can have that conclusion if you like, and I wouldn’t necessarily challenge it if it came with an explanation. But here on the SDMB, it doesn’t usually, and even the liberals seem to be caught up in condemnation of him without providing any evidence or reasoning to support their view. ---
**Author:** ![Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/troy_mcclure_sf/32/4150_2.png) [@Troy\_McClure\_SF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troy_McClure_SF)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2004, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-here-read-michael-moores-dude-wheres-my-country/280581/43 "2004-12-21T22:59:46Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Where is the well-reasoned criticism? I have yet to see much. Use [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/search.php?). Others have done it to death, much more eloquently than I could. > [@](#): > > …Your earlier post (which I wasn’t responding to anyway) basically boiled it down to “he’s really popular and it bugs me! Michael Moore fans are just sheep! Sheep, I tells ya!” Actually, I said nothing of the sort. I was venting my frustration about people who “parrot what he says without attempting the slightest bit of critical thought, and will not hear of any dissention.” The same point I expanded on in response to your post. > [@](#): > > But I just pointed out that there’s often a serious lack of justification for opinions on the guy. While I agree that this is true among people who don’t like Moore, it’s just as true among people who defend him. Tuning out the other side is a pretty shitty argument, no matter what side or what topic. I can rail against Michael Moore all I want, but he has money and clout. As said above, I think he has his heart in the right place, but not his mind. What really bothers me about the whole thing is that so many people will blindly parrot everything he says as gospel, just like so many people parrot everything Mr. Bush says as gospel. I’d expect that of people on the other side of the fence as I, but when my own side is stooping to such a remedial level of debate, it really pisses me off. I agree that **Clout** ’s post is pretty useless as far as fighting ignorance goes, but I’ve seen detailed explantions of where Moore is wrong, why Moore is wrong, and how Moore is wrong in his arguments, and a good portion of the rebuttal is something like, “you just hate Michael Moore, so I’ll ignore your points,” or worse, “but he means well!” Do you see the difference? If someone clearly has thought about what Moore says and considered and still defends him, fine. But if I ask “why,” and the response is, “I don’t know, but Bush is a poo-head” then I get pissed because these people are the face for the left, and that leaves something to be desired for me, as a member of the left. ---
**Author:** ![booka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e0b2c6/32.png) [@booka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/booka)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-here-read-michael-moores-dude-wheres-my-country/280581/44 "2004-12-22T14:43:06Z")
> [@rjung](#): > > The difference is that Moore backs up his claims with [cites.](http://www.michaelmoore.com/books-films/f911reader/index.php?id=16) Since we’re playing fast and loose with the definition of “cites”, I think Pat Robertson could offer some cites too: [http://www.cbnindia.org/200Questions/](http://www.cbnindia.org/200Questions/) ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-here-read-michael-moores-dude-wheres-my-country/280581/45 "2004-12-22T15:14:38Z")
> [@Troy McClure SF](#): > > Use [this](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/search.php?). Others have done it to death, much more eloquently than I could. Then you should be able to actually point to something more substantial than the Search function. Or quickly summarize which, to you, have been the most salient points upon which Moore has been wrong. quote]While I agree that this is true among people who don’t like Moore, it’s just as true among people who defend him. [/quote] Cite? > [@](#): > > What really bothers me about the whole thing is that so many people will blindly parrot everything he says as gospel, just like so many people parrot everything Mr. Bush says as gospel. What really _ought_ to bother you is that so many people will blindly parrot what someone else says, and refuse to explore their factuality. > [@](#): > > I agree that **Clout** ’s post is pretty useless as far as fighting ignorance goes, but I’ve seen detailed explantions of where Moore is wrong, why Moore is wrong, and how Moore is wrong in his arguments, and a good portion of the rebuttal is something like, “you just hate Michael Moore, so I’ll ignore your points,” or worse, “but he means well!” As already asked, Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-here-read-michael-moores-dude-wheres-my-country/280581/46 "2004-12-22T16:08:39Z")
> [@](#): > > God I miss being a Liberal… If you want to read decent leftist books with a multitude of cites and decent, valid commentary, put down the Michael _“bubblegum for the mind”_ Moore books and look up guys like John Pilger, William Blum, Howard Zinn and Noam Chomsky. You may still disagree with their conclusions but the writing will be fluid, the research impeccable and the cites will be superbly researched to back up all the claims. Go on, you owe it to yourself…… ---
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-here-read-michael-moores-dude-wheres-my-country/280581/47 "2004-12-22T16:19:00Z")
> [@mobo85](#): > > Didn’t the Coca-Cola Company attempt a similar tactic in the [early 1970s?](http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?cola:1:./temp/~ammem_7fHU::) No, no, no, they wanted to teach the world to sing. Then they wanted to buy the world a Coke. Just one. For all 12 billion people in the whole world. We were supposed to share it. Cheap bastards. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-here-read-michael-moores-dude-wheres-my-country/280581/48 "2004-12-22T16:26:31Z")
Michael Moore is one of those people—like Madalyn Murray O’Hair—who make me wish they weren’t on “my side.” Have you seen his latest book, [Will They Ever Trust Us Again?](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0743271521/qid=1103732756/sr=2-3/ref=pd_ka_b_2_3/103-4389168-6871063), gut-wrenching letters from soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan? The cover, of course, features a GREAT BIG CLOSE-UP OF MICHAEL MOORE, because that’s who this is _all_ about! ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-here-read-michael-moores-dude-wheres-my-country/280581/49 "2004-12-22T16:28:00Z")
> [@Dogzilla](#): > > No, no, no, they wanted to teach the world to sing. Then they wanted to buy the world a Coke. Just one. For all 12 billion people in the whole world. We were supposed to share it. > > Cheap bastards. My I use this as my sig? Hehehe… ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2004, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-here-read-michael-moores-dude-wheres-my-country/280581/50 "2004-12-22T19:44:27Z")
> [@Eve](#): > > Michael Moore is one of those people—like Madalyn Murray O’Hair—who make me wish they weren’t on “my side.” Have you seen his latest book, [Will They Ever Trust Us Again?](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0743271521/qid=1103732756/sr=2-3/ref=pd_ka_b_2_3/103-4389168-6871063), gut-wrenching letters from soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan? The cover, of course, features a GREAT BIG CLOSE-UP OF MICHAEL MOORE, because that’s who this is _all_ about! Dear, it’s a dust jacket, you can just take it off. 😉 (And a cover with a great big close-up of Michael Moore is half as stomach-churning as a cover with a great big close-up of Ann Coulter, She-Wolf of the SS…) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-here-read-michael-moores-dude-wheres-my-country/280581.md?page=2)