# Has anyone provided proof the election was stolen? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 25, 2021, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-provided-proof-the-election-was-stolen/951329 "2021-09-25T14:00:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-provided-proof-the-election-was-stolen/951329/41 "2021-09-27T04:03:26Z")
> [@snowthx](#): > > However, the Republican propaganda machine, and Trump, want to keep energy behind the Big Lie, because they think it will always mark Biden’s win with an asterisk (that the election was “disputed”, as-if!), and by perpetuating the idea that the integrity of elections is questionable (unless they win, of course), they can clear the way to push their agenda of implementing various voter restrictions (targeted at traditional Democratic voting blocs). Don’t forget we’re now dealing with what I call _Schrödinger’s election_, in which those who are asserting that votes for Biden were fake, yet they were elected into office on the very same ballot. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-provided-proof-the-election-was-stolen/951329/42 "2021-09-27T04:21:00Z")
> [@Hari\_Seldon](#): > > Add to that, if you live in rural Alabama or rural PA, that _all_ of your friends and neighbors voted for Trump, so the only way he could have lost is through electoral fraud. The tendency for people to generalize from their own close friends is truly limitless. I have already encountered a Canadian who insists the Liberals couldn’t have done that well in Toronto because no one in his family voted Liberal. People suck at stats. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-provided-proof-the-election-was-stolen/951329/43 "2021-09-27T04:28:29Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Don’t forget we’re now dealing with what I call _Schrödinger’s election_ , in which those who are asserting that votes for Biden were fake, yet they were elected into office on the very same ballot. Well, the Chinese ballot makers knew how to spell “Bai Den” but those weird American names for the Ds down ballot threw them so they blew them off. The fact that they, the down-ballot Republicans, won while the most reviled man in America lost only proves that. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-provided-proof-the-election-was-stolen/951329/44 "2021-09-27T15:28:07Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > The fact that they, the down-ballot Republicans, won while the most reviled man in America lost only proves that. You really think they’d notice that more. The vote wasn’t anti-Republican, it was anti-Trump. Dumping him should improve their chances of winning next time, but they all seem to believe the exact opposite. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-provided-proof-the-election-was-stolen/951329/45 "2021-09-27T16:19:12Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > You really think they’d notice that more. The vote wasn’t anti-Republican, it was anti-Trump. Dumping him should improve their chances of winning next time, but they all seem to believe the exact opposite. Except that the American electoral system has two phases. They have to get their party’s nomination first, in (depending on the state) a public primary or caucus. And the voters in those primaries and caucuses are, of course, overwhelmingly Republican, and not only that, they tend to be more conservative than Republican voters as a whole. And, now, they are more Trumpist than Republican voters as a whole. If you’re in a safe Republican seat, the electoral math dictates that you don’t _care_ how popular Trump is overall - just how popular he is with the likely primary voters/caucus attendees in your district. In a “purple” district, you’re more likely to care about the general perception of Trump, but you still need to get through the primaries/caucuses. The time-honored tactic is to tack right during the primaries and tack back to the center during the general election. The 24-hour news cycle and social media and the deepening cultural and political divide (which all feed into each other, of course) have largely put paid to that tactic. If you don’t want to get primaried in the next election, you need to bend the knee to Trump now. Dumping Trump _may_ improve their chances of winning _some_ districts or states next time in the _general_ election, but Trump has so completely seized the Republican base that dumping Trump means not even making it to the general election next time. Or at least that seems to be the perception of a _lot_ of Republican office holders. If Liz Cheney holds onto her seat in 2022, that calculus may change radically and very quickly. If she gets successfully primaried by a Trumpist, you’ll probably see Republicans even less likely to dump Trump going forward. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-provided-proof-the-election-was-stolen/951329/46 "2021-09-27T16:24:39Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Except that the American electoral system has two phases. They have to get their party’s nomination first, in (depending on the state) a public primary or caucus. And the voters in those primaries and caucuses are, of course, overwhelmingly Republican, and not only that, they tend to be more conservative than Republican voters as a whole. And, now, they are more Trumpist than Republican voters as a whole. That’s the way it has been, but there’s nothing to say it has to continue that way. Remember, these were people who were otherwise voting Republican, but who split their ticket to specifically reject Trump. Sure, Trumpists are more vocal and rabid than these voters, but it seems like these voters have finally had enough of the Trump wing of the party. Why wouldn’t some of the candidates at least try to appeal to these voters, and get them out in the primaries? It seems like none of the candidates are willing to even _try_ this, no matter where they’re running. It seems to me they’re either cowards, idiots, or Tru Bleevers™ in Trump. None of those look good. ---
**Author:** ![gdave](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gdave/32/3683_2.png) [@gdave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gdave)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-provided-proof-the-election-was-stolen/951329/47 "2021-09-27T16:41:28Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Remember, these were people who were otherwise voting Republican, but who split their ticket to specifically reject Trump. Sure, Trumpists are more vocal and rabid than these voters, but it seems like these voters have finally had enough of the Trump wing of the party. Yes, they split the ticket in the _general_ election. But, again, Republican voters are more conservative and Trumpist than the general electorate as a whole, and primary voters/caucus attendees are more conservative and Trumpist than the Republican electorate as a whole. And primaries, and even more so caucuses, have far lower turnout than general elections. It’s a fraction of a fraction of the electorate, and that fraction of a fraction is still largely Trumpist. And, again, I think Liz Cheney is the right now the most visible test case for the continuing hold of the Trumpists over the Republican party. Her decision to dump Trump cost her her House leadership position, and resulted in her being censured by her own state party’s governing committee. _If_ she hangs on to her seat in 2022, I think that’s going to puncture Trump’s hold on the party. But if she gets primaried, it’s going to reinforce his hold. Even in “purple” states, heck even in “blue” states, most office holders are in “red” _districts_. General election results just don’t have the same impact on their political calculations. Even for holders of statewide offices (governor, U.S. senator, and so forth), they still need to get through those Trumpist-dominated primaries. _If_ those ticket-splitters turn out en masse for Republican primaries going forward, it’ll change the political calculus. But “If” is doing a _lot_ of heavy lifting in that sentence. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-provided-proof-the-election-was-stolen/951329/48 "2021-09-27T16:43:47Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Remember, these were people who were otherwise voting Republican, but who split their ticket to specifically reject Trump. [jauntily waves hello] ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-provided-proof-the-election-was-stolen/951329/49 "2021-09-27T16:50:13Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > Yes, they split the ticket in the _general_ election. But, again, Republican voters are more conservative and Trumpist than the general electorate as a whole, and primary voters/caucus attendees are more conservative and Trumpist than the Republican electorate as a whole. And primaries, and even more so caucuses, have far lower turnout than general elections. It’s a fraction of a fraction of the electorate, and that fraction of a fraction is still largely Trumpist. This just feels like “Well we completely surrendered to the Trumpists, and then they won all the primaries! I told you we couldn’t beat them!” You can’t beat them if you never even try. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-provided-proof-the-election-was-stolen/951329/50 "2021-09-27T16:50:58Z")
Do you remember if you voted for anyone who voted against certification of the EC on Jan 6? ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-provided-proof-the-election-was-stolen/951329/51 "2021-09-27T19:11:35Z")
> [@gdave](#): > > _If_ those ticket-splitters turn out en masse for Republican primaries going forward, it’ll change the political calculus. Or, if they vote for Democrats in the general. If Democratic candidates paint every Republican challenger as a Trump-puppet, and win enough purple districts, GOP leadership might just wake up to the fact that pandering to the whackadoo right is a losing strategy. I’m not saying that’s what’s going to happen. But if it doesn’t, we’re probably fucked. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-provided-proof-the-election-was-stolen/951329/52 "2021-09-27T19:33:29Z")
> [@Akaj](#): > > GOP leadership might just wake up to the fact that pandering to the whackadoo right is a losing strategy. Suppose the Republican leadership figures that out, but the Republican voters don’t, then what? ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-provided-proof-the-election-was-stolen/951329/53 "2021-09-27T20:44:21Z")
Getting a bit back to the OP, there is quite a bit of “proof” out there, most of it of the form of videos and statistics of things that appear at first to be evidence of something nefarious going on but which turn out to have completely innocuous explanations. Examples: > **[Does This Video Show a PA Elections Worker Filling Out Ballots?](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pa-worker-filling-ballots/?collection-id=281440)** > > A video shared on Twitter purported to catch ballot counters in Pennsylvania in the act of committing voter fraud. > **[Fact check: Wisconsin did not have more votes than people...](https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-factcheck-wisconsin-more-votes-regist/fact-checkwisconsin-did-not-have-more-votes-than-people-registered-idUSKBN27K2WU)** > > Social media users have been sharing a Twitter screenshot that claims Wisconsin had more people who voted in the 2020 presidential election than number of people registered to vote and say this is evidence fraud took place. This claim is false as the... The rest involve small scale irregularities that are bound to occur in operation as large and complicated as an election, but which are not significant enough to shift the election in any significant way. Example: > **[Was the Ballot of Deceased Man Named William Bradley Counted in Michigan?](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/william-bradley-voted-dead/?collection-id=281440)** > > During the 2020 presidential contest, false information on the internet spread faster than facts. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-provided-proof-the-election-was-stolen/951329/54 "2021-09-27T20:51:40Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > The rest involve small scale election irregularities that are bound to occur in operation as large and complicated as an election, but which are not significant enough to shift the election in any significant way. > Example: Your example is blank. If that was your intention, I guess it’s actually somewhat clever in this particular context. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-provided-proof-the-election-was-stolen/951329/55 "2021-09-27T20:52:15Z")
Corrected in edit. ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-provided-proof-the-election-was-stolen/951329/56 "2021-09-27T20:55:45Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > > [@Akaj](#): > > > > GOP leadership might just wake up to the fact that pandering to the whackadoo right is a losing strategy. > > Suppose the Republican leadership figures that out, but the Republican voters don’t, then what? Well they can stop ostracizing their Congress members who speak out against the Big Lie, and stop promoting the ones who do. That would be a big signal to whatever’s left of the middle that they’re willing to be a semi-responsible party again. If that doesn’t happen they’ll be trying to win the generals with nothing but their lunatic base. If that’s enough, then, like I said, we’re fucked. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-provided-proof-the-election-was-stolen/951329/57 "2021-09-27T20:56:44Z")
So, alright. There has been no proof, but there has been “proof”. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-provided-proof-the-election-was-stolen/951329/58 "2021-09-27T21:07:09Z")
Proof as in “alcohol content”, sure I bet there has been plenty of that. ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-provided-proof-the-election-was-stolen/951329/59 "2021-09-27T21:11:08Z")
There was at my house on Jan. 20 at 7:15am Central. That’s when the helicopter carrying Trump lifted off the ground, finally separating the physical connection between the White House and that lying fuck. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2021, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-provided-proof-the-election-was-stolen/951329/60 "2021-09-27T21:26:25Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Suppose the Republican leadership figures that out, but the Republican voters don’t, then what? Then the GOP as such have caught themselves in a cleft stick and I have no pity. That’s what happened to McSally, the senator for Arizona appointed to fill the remainder of McCain’s term. A career Air Force officer, she was the first woman to fly in combat (A-10s) and the first woman commander of a fighter squadron. While stationed in Saudi Arabia she sued the DOD about its requirement to wear an abaya off base. After retiring she launched her political career by running in 2012 for Arizona’s 8th congressional district, losing by less than 2,500 votes to the Democratic incumbent. Trying again in 2014 for Arizona’s 2nd CD (same geographic location after redrawing) after an automatic recount she beat the same incumbent by 167 votes. She ran again in 2016, running unopposed in the Republican primary and handily beating her Democratic challenger in the general. During her two terms in the House she was seen as a moderate Republican, most of the bills she introduced being about homeland security and veteran’s affairs. Then Trump happened. At first she called the _Access Hollywood_ tapes “disgusting” and “unacceptable” but then in the primary she was facing Kelli Ward – who can give Michelle Bachman a run for the money – and Joe Arpaio, the less said about him the better. Suddenly her DOD lawsuit was all about sharia law and not at all about empowering women. She won the three-way primary with 53% of the vote then faced Sinema. She continued her rightward drift and narrowly lost to Sinema then a month later was appointed by Governor Ducey to fill the remainder of mcCain’s term after his death. She continued to drink the Trump Kool-aide, refusing to call any more witnesses during the impeachment trial and voting to acquit. Despite kissing his… ring she was all but booted off the stage by him during his final rally in Phoenix. I wrote a letter asking, among other things, how she felt about that. She never replied. It didn’t help – she lost to Mark Kelly in the 2020 general election. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-provided-proof-the-election-was-stolen/951329.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-provided-proof-the-election-was-stolen/951329.md?page=4)