# Has anyone read "Letter to a Christian Nation" What did you think of it? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 25, 2006, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-read-letter-to-a-christian-nation-what-did-you-think-of-it/377879 "2006-10-25T19:27:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-read-letter-to-a-christian-nation-what-did-you-think-of-it/377879/1 "2006-10-25T19:27:43Z")
This should probably go in Cafe but the topic is more GD than anything else. Mods move if you must. Has anyone read this book? Do you recommend it?? ["Letter to a Christian Nation](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15363394/site/newsweek/) ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-read-letter-to-a-christian-nation-what-did-you-think-of-it/377879/2 "2006-10-25T21:30:27Z")
Well, I just read the first paragraph of Newsweek’s article you linked to, and I’m already offended: > [@](#): > > At lunch with Sam Harris, one is struck by how personable, how familiar he seems—a soft-spoken, thoughtful man with pleasant manners, a man who wrote two best-selling books while pursuing a degree in neuroscience. He is, in other words, an unlikely infidel. An _unlikely_ atheist? WTF are they saying? ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-read-letter-to-a-christian-nation-what-did-you-think-of-it/377879/3 "2006-10-25T21:37:55Z")
[QUOTE=CurtC] Well, I just read the first paragraph of Newsweek’s article you linked to, and I’m already offended: An _unlikely_ atheist? WTF are they saying? [/QUOTE] To be fair, I think they are more ragging on the perception of infidel rather than seriously supporting it. The problem is that the author is too smug to realize that most people don’t share his views, and so won’t immediately realize it. ---
**Author:** ![cosmosdan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a6a055/32.png) [@cosmosdan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cosmosdan)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-read-letter-to-a-christian-nation-what-did-you-think-of-it/377879/4 "2006-10-25T22:01:59Z")
[QUOTE=astro] This should probably go in Cafe but the topic is more GD than anything else. Mods move if you must. Has anyone read this book? Do you recommend it?? ["Letter to a Christian Nation](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15363394/site/newsweek/) [/QUOTE] I haven’t read it but I’m looking forward to doing so. I recommend his “The End of Faith” and according to the article this book was prompted by Emails he recieved about that book. I’ll betcha he got more than one YOU’LL BURN IN HELL HARRIS!!! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-read-letter-to-a-christian-nation-what-did-you-think-of-it/377879/5 "2006-10-25T22:03:47Z")
[QUOTE=Apos] To be fair, I think they are more ragging on the perception of infidel rather than seriously supporting it. The problem is that the author is too smug to realize that most people don’t share his views, and so won’t immediately realize it. [/QUOTE] The author of the book, or the author of the article? ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-read-letter-to-a-christian-nation-what-did-you-think-of-it/377879/6 "2006-10-25T22:05:57Z")
[QUOTE=CurtC] Well, I just read the first paragraph of Newsweek’s article you linked to, and I’m already offended: An _unlikely_ atheist? WTF are they saying? [/QUOTE] Americans as a group depsise and distrust atheists. For, example, [lhere :](http://www.mndaily.com/articles/2006/03/24/67686) > [@](#): > > Atheists are America’s least trusted group, according to a national survey conducted by University sociology researchers. > Based on a telephone survey of more than 2,000 households and in-depth interviews with more than 140 people, researchers found that Americans rate atheists below Muslims, recent immigrants, homosexuals and other groups as “sharing their vision of American society.” Americans are also least willing to let their children marry atheists. > > \< Snip \> > > Those surveyed tended to view people who don’t believe in a god as the “ultimate self-interested actor who doesn’t care about anyone but themselves,” Edgell said. > > \< snip \> > > Still, Ries said, “I don’t believe that anybody is really an atheist. I believe that deep down everyone knows there is a god.” > > \< snip \> > > First-year pharmacy student Amanda Wawrzynia, however, found the study reasonable. > > She said she would have ranked atheists at the bottom of the list of those sharing the same vision of American society. > > “I would rather have my kids marry someone of a different religion than someone who has none,” she said. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-read-letter-to-a-christian-nation-what-did-you-think-of-it/377879/7 "2006-10-25T22:11:42Z")
I read it, enjoyed it, bought a copy for my local library. But it really doesn’t make any points he hadn’t made in his previous book. ---
**Author:** ![Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d07c76/32.png) [@Age\_Quod\_Agis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Age_Quod_Agis)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-read-letter-to-a-christian-nation-what-did-you-think-of-it/377879/8 "2006-10-25T22:19:17Z")
[QUOTE=CurtC] An _unlikely_ atheist? WTF are they saying? [/QUOTE] I think they’re saying that he’s well-mannered, friendly, and engaging, which is not the impression you might take from his book, in which he appears combative and ornery. Here’s the article’s second paragraph: > [@Time](#): > > But as infidels go, Harris is an astonishingly successful one. The son of a Jewish mother and a Quaker father, he has written one of two books currently on The New York Times best-seller list that debunk belief in God, any belief in God, as irrational at best and destructive to human society at worst. This week “Letter to a Christian Nation” sits at 6 on the hard-cover nonfiction list, up from 11 from last week; the other, Richard Dawkins’s “The God Delusion,” is number 8, up from 12. In spite of his appearance, Harris is very angry, and “Letter” is a readable, exhortatory screed, a response to all the Scripture-quoting e-mail he received from Christians who read his first book. Religion, he writes in “Letter,” is “obscene”—not just repellent, but “utterly repellent.” ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2006, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-read-letter-to-a-christian-nation-what-did-you-think-of-it/377879/9 "2006-10-25T22:34:01Z")
I read it and liked it. It rehashed familiar arguments. Harris can be blunt, but he thinks that too much tolerance and respect for religious beliefs allows the belivers to run everyone else over. …a ‘give them an inch and they’ll take a mile’ attitude, which he, argues is harmful. ---
**Author:** ![50million](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/5/9fc348/32.png) [@50million](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/50million)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 1:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-read-letter-to-a-christian-nation-what-did-you-think-of-it/377879/10 "2006-10-26T01:00:07Z")
[QUOTE=CurtC] Well, I just read the first paragraph of Newsweek’s article you linked to, and I’m already offended: An _unlikely_ atheist? WTF are they saying? [/QUOTE] I too am offended, but for a different reason. Why do they use the word “infidel”? With the current Islamic mess we have going on “infidel” has taken on another meaning entirely; in my opinion at least. I would be more than happy if they had used “atheist” as you did. I’ll also agree with you about the “unlikely” part. And I don’t buy the theory that they were saying that it’s “unlikely” b/c his book is “angry”. If that were the case then they would have said something like, “The unlikely author of this book.” ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-read-letter-to-a-christian-nation-what-did-you-think-of-it/377879/11 "2006-10-26T04:11:41Z")
Entertainingly, his next book is going to ‘prove’ we have no free will. I feel inclined to punch him in the face, as my genetic and cultural programming robs me of any ability to do otherwise. Seriously, that should be worth reading, and his arguments will most probably be fascinating to dissect. Clearly, he has complete assurance about something that, as of recently, the rest of the scientific community had been unable to prove, one way or another. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-read-letter-to-a-christian-nation-what-did-you-think-of-it/377879/12 "2006-10-26T04:26:06Z")
Well, it appears the title is a complete misnomer. It’s supposed to be addressed to a Christian nation, but the only people reading it are resolute NON-Christians. ---
**Author:** ![BlackKnight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/eb8c5e/32.png) [@BlackKnight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlackKnight)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 6:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-read-letter-to-a-christian-nation-what-did-you-think-of-it/377879/13 "2006-10-26T06:18:41Z")
[QUOTE=E-Sabbath] Entertainingly, his next book is going to ‘prove’ we have no free will. I feel inclined to punch him in the face, as my genetic and cultural programming robs me of any ability to do otherwise. [/QUOTE] I know you’re trying to be funny, but you do realize that such an act would neither prove nor disprove anything about free will, right? If somebody did such an act, it would say something about their character, but hardly anything about free will. As to the OP, I haven’t read the book in question. I suspect it will be like Daniel Dennett’s “Breaking the Spell”. The people who the author wants to read it won’t read it. The people who don’t need any convincing will read it. It will get press as being provocative or edgy, but nothing will really come of it. There’s a fundamental imbalance between the religious and the non-religious. In general, the religious can push their beliefs as much as they want and people only think badly of them when they get woken up on a Saturday morning by Jehovah’s Witnesses. Even then, people will be annoyed but will consider the proselytizers to be generally motivated by good intentions, if perhaps a little confused or misled. But as soon as a non-religious person starts to proselytize, they’re seen as being vicious attackers of all that is good and just, and are _obviously_ sad pathetic people to have to try to tear down cherished beliefs like that. That’s one reason the non-religious have trouble spreading their beliefs - the very act of trying marks them as evil to a great many people. ---
**Author:** ![rjung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/45deac/32.png) [@rjung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rjung)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-read-letter-to-a-christian-nation-what-did-you-think-of-it/377879/14 "2006-10-26T06:22:36Z")
[QUOTE=E-Sabbath] Entertainingly, his next book is going to ‘prove’ we have no free will. I feel inclined to punch him in the face, as my genetic and cultural programming robs me of any ability to do otherwise. [/quote] FWIW, I vaguely recall Stephen Hawking making a similar claim in _A Brief History of Time_ – something along the lines that everything that happens in the universe can only happen in a preordained manner, and our current existence is merely the Nth iteration of the same event loop. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-read-letter-to-a-christian-nation-what-did-you-think-of-it/377879/15 "2006-10-26T11:25:22Z")
[QUOTE=BlackKnight] I know you’re trying to be funny, but you do realize that such an act would neither prove nor disprove anything about free will, right? If somebody did such an act, it would say something about their character, but hardly anything about free will. [/QUOTE] Actually, that was entirely the point. If I performed such an act, and had no free will, then I could not be held accountable for it, as I would have no character, as such, but rather a set of preprogrammed reflexes. At least, that’s the argument I’d make in a pub setting. That said, I am still quite interested in his writings on the subject, he should have something valuable to say. Though from what little I’ve read, he seems to be a hard skeptic, and falls prey to some argumentative flaws that I’ve seen James Randi escape. Namely, that it is impossible for any one time event to violate the ‘laws of physics’. It is impossible to say anything about an event that happened in the past and was not sufficiently observed. Things that have happened, happened. We can deduce to a high probability they were misinterpreted, but we can’t entirely rule anything out, provided the rest of the evidence provided does not firmly contradict it. This includes bodily resurrection, for example, or any of a number of faith-based events. It does not include evolution, because that is not a one time event, but rather an ongoing process which leaves firm markers. Disproving evolution requires ‘last thursdayism’, which while acceptable as a theory, explains nothing. The same goes for the various ‘flat earth’ theories. Either the change from a flat to a spherical earth would be noticable in various ways, or a miracle happened and the earth was retroactively always that way. (Personal stance: We may or may not have free will, but we certainly have something exceptionally close to it.) ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-read-letter-to-a-christian-nation-what-did-you-think-of-it/377879/16 "2006-10-26T15:36:51Z")
I missed where the atheists in the name of atheism declared war on anybody.Non aggresive thoughtful people. Clearly not to be trusted. ---
**Author:** ![Runestar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/74df32/32.png) [@Runestar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Runestar)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-read-letter-to-a-christian-nation-what-did-you-think-of-it/377879/17 "2006-10-26T16:09:39Z")
[QUOTE=Ca3799] I read it and liked it. It rehashed familiar arguments. Harris can be blunt, but he thinks that too much tolerance and respect for religious beliefs allows the belivers to run everyone else over. …a ‘give them an inch and they’ll take a mile’ attitude, which he, argues is harmful. [/QUOTE] I just started reading Richard Dawkins “The God Delusion” and he establishes the same essential point early on - that because we’ve all been told over and over again that we must ‘respect’ each other’s religious beliefs, lest we offend, we’re culturally conditioned from pointing out how irrational they are. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-read-letter-to-a-christian-nation-what-did-you-think-of-it/377879/18 "2006-10-26T16:11:48Z")
[QUOTE=E-Sabbath] Actually, that was entirely the point. If I performed such an act, and had no free will, then I could not be held accountable for it [/quote] But holding you accountable would require free will, no? We could simply say that it’s our pre-determined fate to put you in jail for doing so. > [@](#): > > (Personal stance: We may or may not have free will, but we certainly have something exceptionally close to it.) Seems to me like we either do or we don’t. I think it would be more accurate to say we at least have the _illusion_ of free will. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-read-letter-to-a-christian-nation-what-did-you-think-of-it/377879/19 "2006-10-26T16:12:54Z")
Good book, with familiar arguments. I hope the book will help religious people change the way they view their faith rather than to give it up. There is a section about how religion doesn’t care as much about human suffering as it should. I tend to agree with that, and I hope more religious people would start to evaluate their actions using that standard. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2006, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-read-letter-to-a-christian-nation-what-did-you-think-of-it/377879/20 "2006-10-26T16:19:22Z")
[QUOTE=Age Quod Agis] I think they’re saying that he’s well-mannered, friendly, and engaging, which is not the impression you might take from his book, in which he appears combative and ornery. [/QUOTE] I don’t think that’s a reasonable interpretation. The author of the article says that he comes across as a nice guy, then immediately follows that with “an unlikely infidel.” She’s clearly saying that those traits don’t go with atheism. Also, the word “infidel” here doesn’t bother me, but I think “atheist” would have been a better choice. “Infidel” conveys that someone doesn’t believe in the god of a particular religion, so that a Christian is an infidel to a Muslim, and a Jew is an infidel to a Hindu. It’s a relative term in my experience. But atheists are infidels to every religion. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-read-letter-to-a-christian-nation-what-did-you-think-of-it/377879.md?page=2)