# Has anyone sucessfully gotten out of a "bait car" theft using entrapment as a reason? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 21, 2007, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-sucessfully-gotten-out-of-a-bait-car-theft-using-entrapment-as-a-reason/416332 "2007-08-21T02:57:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-sucessfully-gotten-out-of-a-bait-car-theft-using-entrapment-as-a-reason/416332/41 "2018-04-24T23:22:48Z")
To answer the OP, ‘bait cars’ began to be used regularly last century. The province of BC had a fleet of them in use by 2002. I’m sure that in the 16 years since then, more than one defense lawyer has tried the ‘entrapment’ argument on a Judge & Jury. Obviously, it doesn’t work, otherwise police wouldn’t still be using this technique. As far as the “just moving it to protect the owner” argument, that’s used frequently by people caught. But the video of their actions while taking the car, and that they drove it for miles, and that they made no effort to report it to authorities, don’t know who the owner is, etc. all undercut this excuse. (I do recall one episode of this where they had the bait car positioned with the keys left in the ignition, where an older black man took them, went into the business there, left the keys with the manager, came out and left a note under the wiper telling the owner where the keys were. He was the minister at a local church, just passing by. The cops filming all this were both pleased that there were honest citizens about, and frustrated that he had spoiled their bait car operation.) ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-sucessfully-gotten-out-of-a-bait-car-theft-using-entrapment-as-a-reason/416332/42 "2018-04-24T23:54:15Z")
> [@Jayrot](#): > > Leaving your keys in the ignition is illegal? Huh? :dubious: Yes, it’s illegal in Vic.Aus Towing the car away is mostly legal here. If you can demonstrate that you had a legal right, were not stealing it, and were not going to hold it to ransom or use it some other way. So there is clearly some room for argument. (But that’s not what the OP was about, which was, assuming it’s illegal, could you get out of it anyway?) Off topic: “borrowing” or 'looking after" a horse used to have the same kind of strict liability that using a car does now. ---
**Author:** ![sbunny8](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@sbunny8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sbunny8)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-sucessfully-gotten-out-of-a-bait-car-theft-using-entrapment-as-a-reason/416332/43 "2018-04-25T00:28:35Z")
They should have tried the “mysterious dude” defense. Just say you met a mysterious dude a couple blocks away who said, “I’m too drunk to drive home; I’ll give you $5 to go get my car and come pick me up” and then you couldn’t find the dude again. If they doubt your story, just produce the $5 bill and that should settle the matter. Even though this car clearly doesn’t belong to the mysterious dude, they can’t prove that you knew that it was the wrong car. ---
**Author:** ![Perderabo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a183cd/32.png) [@Perderabo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Perderabo)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-sucessfully-gotten-out-of-a-bait-car-theft-using-entrapment-as-a-reason/416332/44 "2018-04-25T03:00:03Z")
> [@Jayrot](#): > > Leaving your keys in the ignition is illegal? Huh? :dubious: > [@Rick](#): > > I agree, I would like to see a cite for that. > **[Leaving Your Vehicle Running While Unattended is Illegal in Several States -...](https://www.bordaslaw.com/blog_post/leaving-your-vehicle-running-while-unattended-illegal-several-states/)** > > If you don�t have a garage or a remote starter, you need to let your vehicle run for a while to warm up and defrost the windows. So, sometimes when it is really cold and icy, it makes sense to go back in the house to wait and stay warm. In some... ---
**Author:** ![DooWahDiddy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e9bcb4/32.png) [@DooWahDiddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DooWahDiddy)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-sucessfully-gotten-out-of-a-bait-car-theft-using-entrapment-as-a-reason/416332/45 "2018-04-25T03:17:10Z")
_Paralyzed with uncertainty of what to say, since this zombie thread wasn’t resurrected by a newcomer_ ---
**Author:** ![kk\_fusion](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kk_fusion/32/15276_2.png) [@kk\_fusion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kk_fusion)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 9:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-sucessfully-gotten-out-of-a-bait-car-theft-using-entrapment-as-a-reason/416332/46 "2018-04-25T09:48:28Z")
Possibly a spammer/sock who has since been disappeared. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-sucessfully-gotten-out-of-a-bait-car-theft-using-entrapment-as-a-reason/416332/47 "2018-04-25T13:07:07Z")
> [@Jayrot](#): > > Leaving your keys in the ignition is illegal? Huh? :dubious: > [@Rick](#): > > I agree, I would like to see a cite for that. It is in Colorado - at least leaving an unattended car running is illegal so kind of the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-sucessfully-gotten-out-of-a-bait-car-theft-using-entrapment-as-a-reason/416332/48 "2018-04-25T13:34:49Z")
IANAL … but my understanding of entrapment is when the LEO says it is legal … then arrests you because it is, in fact, illegal … So in the bait car situation, we’d need a (uniformed?) police office standing next to the car and telling the person “It is lawful for you to drive this car” … any subsequent arrest for auto theft would be dismissed because of entrapment … what specific shade of grey used in these cases probably depends on the local jurisdiction and local courts … but just the police providing opportunity to commit a crime isn’t entrapment, there has to be some manner of police telling the person it is lawful to commit the act … ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-sucessfully-gotten-out-of-a-bait-car-theft-using-entrapment-as-a-reason/416332/49 "2018-04-25T13:48:29Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > IANAL … but my understanding of entrapment is when the LEO says it is legal … then arrests you because it is, in fact, illegal … That is not an accurate definition of entrapment. From the link I posted 11 years ago - [Entrapment - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment) > [@](#): > > In criminal law, entrapment is a practice whereby a law enforcement agent induces a person to commit a criminal offence that the person would have otherwise been unlikely or unwilling to commit. While it’s possible for an LEO to entrap someone by telling them an act is legal, it also might provide an out because they wouldn’t have [Mens Rea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea). That may or may not be a valid defense against all crimes, but it certainly would be against some. Again, 11 years later, IANAL. But since that’s not how most cases of entrapment work it’s not really relevant to the bait cars. ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-sucessfully-gotten-out-of-a-bait-car-theft-using-entrapment-as-a-reason/416332/50 "2018-04-25T13:53:46Z")
No. Let’s use a prostitution sting as an example. Just having an attractive female officer stand on the corner isn’t grounds for entrapment. She would have to say something to try to induce a person to solicit like, “Ya’ got some time and money, honey?” Just being there isn’t an inducement. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-sucessfully-gotten-out-of-a-bait-car-theft-using-entrapment-as-a-reason/416332/51 "2018-04-25T14:25:28Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > What if an individual saw the car had the keys in the ignition and took them out fearing the car would be stolen by someone else but then didn’t have time to stand around and wait for the owner so just walked off? Would this be theft? That isn’t grand theft auto ! Its just petty theft, or denial of the use of the car. The law on auto theft is USING the car without reasonable excuse. Clearly the thiefs intent to return the car (in five weeks or in five hours or in half an hour or in five minutes ) cannot be a reasonable excuse for borrowing a car. So there is no need for the prosecution to show there is a profit to be made in stealing the car, and then working out how many taxi rides the theft saved and evaluating that… thats not important… its the use of the vehicle… So the answer is that stealing the keys , with the intent to never give them back perhaps assumed until shown otherwise, is going to count as a misdemeaner and a fine at that. So there is a difference in severity… AND in your case intending to give them over to the owner or to the police or something, may well avoid the charge totally… ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-sucessfully-gotten-out-of-a-bait-car-theft-using-entrapment-as-a-reason/416332/52 "2018-04-25T14:48:11Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > That is not an accurate definition of entrapment. > > From the link I posted 11 years ago - [Entrapment - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entrapment) > While it’s possible for an LEO to entrap someone by telling them an act is legal, it also might provide an out because they wouldn’t have [Mens Rea](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mens_rea). That may or may not be a valid defense against all crimes, but it certainly would be against some. Again, 11 years later, IANAL. > > But since that’s not how most cases of entrapment work it’s not really relevant to the bait cars. > [@](#): > > ORS 161.275 (2) - “As used in this section, “induced” means that the actor did not contemplate and would not otherwise have engaged in the proscribed conduct. Merely affording the actor an opportunity to commit an offense does not constitute entrapment.” The key to the entrapment defense is “would not otherwise have engaged” … something your citation doesn’t really explain … my apologies for not making clear what I mean when I say “shades of grey” … ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-sucessfully-gotten-out-of-a-bait-car-theft-using-entrapment-as-a-reason/416332/53 "2018-04-25T15:03:01Z")
If they leave the car running, are they really catching the car thieves? Or just the idiots who are opportunistic? On the show they say they put the bait car in areas which have high rates of auto theft, but I would assume those stolen cars don’t have the keys in it. I would assume that the car thefts they are trying to stop are from more organized people who seek out certain cars rather just wandering around looking for cars with the keys in the ignition. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anyone-sucessfully-gotten-out-of-a-bait-car-theft-using-entrapment-as-a-reason/416332.md?page=2)