# Has anything ever really been built with an auto-destruct system? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [January 30, 2003, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-ever-really-been-built-with-an-auto-destruct-system/151724 "2003-01-30T21:30:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Doc\_Nickel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/5fc32e/32.png) [@Doc\_Nickel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doc_Nickel)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-ever-really-been-built-with-an-auto-destruct-system/151724/41 "2003-01-31T21:42:01Z")
Actually, in Ben Rich’s Book _Skunk Works_, there’s a reference to Powers (or possibly another U2 pilot) accidentally popping the glass cyanide pill into his mouth in leiu of the lemon drops he carried in the same pocket. Said it was a near thing, that he hadn’t bitten down on it. Don’t know about the destruct for the cameras and film- One might logically assume that a crash from 100,000 feet would pretty well render 'em unrecognizable. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-ever-really-been-built-with-an-auto-destruct-system/151724/42 "2003-01-31T22:02:40Z")
Hrmpf. I’m the only one who read the title and thought “Windows XP”? ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-ever-really-been-built-with-an-auto-destruct-system/151724/43 "2003-01-31T23:10:08Z")
As I recall reading in the book [MiG Pilot](http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0070038503/qid=1044054233/sr=8-2/ref=sr_8_2/102-9133939-5117746?v=glance&s=books&n=507846), the MiG-25 that Victor Belenko flew over when he defected in 1975 had a button in it that Belenko and other MiG pilots were told to press before ejecting, should they ever need to. They were told that it would detonate self-destruct charges after the pilot had safely ejected…of course, the MiG pilots all wondered if the Soviet brass were really telling the truth about the “Safe Delay” part. :eek: Ranchoth ---
**Author:** ![Badge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/4bbf92/32.png) [@Badge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Badge)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2003, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-ever-really-been-built-with-an-auto-destruct-system/151724/44 "2003-01-31T23:38:38Z")
I have a friend who was a cryptographer for the US Army in Viet Nam. He worked in a sealed van with several other guys, and they were not allowed outside during their shift. The van was inside a compound inside a base, and they were surrounded by armed guards. He has told me that all of their equipment was wired with explosives so that everything would be completely destroyed if the base were overrun. He was telling me about this one day, and one of our other coworkers said that as an MP he guarded one of those crypto vans while stationed in Korea. To the surprise of the first guy, he said that if the base were being taken, their orders were to kill any of the cryto techs that tried to get out, to prevent them from being captured. I can’t swear to this information, since all cops tend to be bullshitters and one of these guys was a master in that art. ---
**Author:** ![panamajack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/47e85d/32.png) [@panamajack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panamajack)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-ever-really-been-built-with-an-auto-destruct-system/151724/45 "2003-02-01T00:05:58Z")
I think **DMark** may have been referring to [Flexplay’s](http://www.flexplay.com/) disks, a new attempt at one-time use DVDs. I believe they have a coating that oxidizes within some time after opening the package, so they’re almost completely pointless. (And despite the company’s claim to the contrary, not very innovative – as **Tapioca Dextrin** pointed out, they were preceded by DivX ( not to be confused with DivX;-) ). Just to tie in with the whole spy thing, there was a test run of them with _Die Another Day_, though I don’t know how well it did. ---
**Author:** ![Kilt-wearin\_man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/82dd89/32.png) [@Kilt-wearin\_man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kilt-wearin_man)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-ever-really-been-built-with-an-auto-destruct-system/151724/46 "2003-02-01T00:18:03Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tarfu \* > \*\*On April 1, 2001, one of the Air Force’s EP3 EW planes was forced to land in China. I recall CNN stories reporting that the crew had used auto-destruct devices to eliminate the top secret data and to destroy circuitry in several of the electronic devices on board, then threw some of the devices off the plane before landing. Strange, but I can’t find references to this on the web. \*\* Minor nitpick - the Air Force doesn’t have any model of P-3 Orion in its inventory. That’s a Navy aircraft. The base model is an antisubmarine patrol aircraft, and the EP-3 is the same airframe with some antenna blisters and a lot of electronics crammed into it. “Self-destruct” seems to pretty much consist of corrupting the hard drives, shredding the print-outs, and doing whatever physical damage you can to the equipment. Of course, for the Chinese Air Force, self-destruct apparently consists of doing something stupid and smacking your supersonic jet fighter into a huge, slow, lumbering, prop-driven electronic surveillance aircraft over international waters… ---
**Author:** ![Morbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morbo/32/389_2.png) [@Morbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morbo)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-ever-really-been-built-with-an-auto-destruct-system/151724/47 "2003-02-01T01:10:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by NurseCarmen \* > \*\*Hrmpf. I’m the only one who read the title and thought “Windows XP”? \*\* Funny you should mention that. Beta/Trial/Demo software applications have a time bomb mechanism in them. In the older days, it was simply shutting down after a certain date so you could get around it by changing the date on your computer, but the newer ones are designed to time out, for example, after 30 days from installation. If you try and use it after that you’ll get an alert “This 30 day trial version has expired. Please buy the full version blah blah blah.” ---
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-ever-really-been-built-with-an-auto-destruct-system/151724/48 "2003-02-01T01:29:03Z")
In the “I Can Neither Confirm Nor Deny” department, there was an interview in Discover magazine some years back with a scientist who was working with a substance that when cooled to something like -180F could be used in place of magnetic media in computer harddrives. While the scientist claimed to be only in the early stages of research on this substance, the interviewer pointed out that the scientist had been working on classified projects for the military for some time now, and that the rumor was that military aircraft already had these harddrives installed. The beauty of this system is that if the plane crashes, the harddrive heats up to ambient air temps and erases itself utterly. The scientist mentioned he’d heard of that rumor, but pointed out that due to reasons of national security he couldn’t comment on it. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 12:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-ever-really-been-built-with-an-auto-destruct-system/151724/49 "2003-02-01T12:48:47Z")
It turns out that Enigma machines **did** have a self destruct mechanism (of sorts). The machines were pretty much useless without the code books, and the code books (at least in the Navy) were printed using water soluble ink. ---
**Author:** ![jonpluc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/fbc32d/32.png) [@jonpluc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonpluc)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-ever-really-been-built-with-an-auto-destruct-system/151724/50 "2003-02-01T13:31:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by demanton \* > \*\*Here’s a happy “self-destruct” story: Way back in the early sixties, NASA was experimenting with early versions of on-board nuclear reactors (radioisotope thermoelectric generators) to power navigation systems of spacecraft. One such RTG, SNAP (space nuclear auxiliary power) 9-A went up on board a Transit space vehicle in December of 1964. The launch vehicle failed shortly after lift-off, though, and the mission was aborted. The SNAP 9-A unit disintegrated in the atmosphere, dusting our beautiful blue planet with 2.1 pounds of Plutonium-238. Traces of the isotope released by the destruction of SNAP 9-A are still detectable in soil samples from all corners of the earth. Every human being on earth also carries plutonium in his or her body from the SNAP incident. Dr. John Gofman, professor emeritus at UC Berkeley, a co-discoverer of the plutonium and uranium isotopes as a member of the Manhattan Project, theorizes that SNAP 9-A is responsible for increased numbers of lung cancer cases around the world. NASA calls the Transit 5-BN-3 abort “successful” and “as designed”. > > Have a great weekend, everyone. > > p.s., there are still several SNAP variant RTG’s in earth orbit. Sleep tight! > > d \*\* Well im no nuclear scientist, but my B.S. meter went way off when i read this post. There is not a chance in hell that every human on this earth has traces from 2 lbs of radioactivity. This radiation would be affected by wind currents and yes dispersed especially in the upper atmosphere but 2 lbs is such a tiny amount in terms of the massive mass and surface area of the planet that this seems fundamentally absurd. I mean yes its part of everything in the same way that if your creamated and you dump your ashes in the lake your part of “everything” again but in no real measurable sence. Is P-238 naturally occuring, even in tiny amounts? If so how could you measure the difference ? Also hasnt P-238 ever been blown up before in testing and/or manufacturing process or whatever? If so how could you differentiate the seperate events? Sounds like alot of oversimplified hooey to me but if i could hear from someone who has some inside info on this would be appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![Futile\_Gesture](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f05b48/32.png) [@Futile\_Gesture](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Futile_Gesture)\ **Post date:** [February 1, 2003, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-ever-really-been-built-with-an-auto-destruct-system/151724/51 "2003-02-01T14:03:00Z")
Administrators of the SDMB have an extra button at the top of their screen. Let’s hope they’re never forced to use it. ---
**Author:** ![Lodrain](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c4cdca/32.png) [@Lodrain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lodrain)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-ever-really-been-built-with-an-auto-destruct-system/151724/52 "2003-02-02T02:40:47Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jonpluc \* > **Is P-238 naturally occuring, even in tiny amounts? If so how could you measure the difference ? Also hasnt P-238 ever been blown up before in testing and/or manufacturing process or whatever? If so how could you differentiate the seperate events?** There’s no element after uranium on the periodic table that’s naturally occurring–and plutonium is well after uranium on the table. It’s formed by the absorption of neutrons from uranium fission, which is the reason breeder reactors work and why we’re so nervous about Iraq’s nuclear program–even if they only have uranium, they can make plutonium, a much more dangerous element. And it’s been blown up a lot, in nuclear testing and so forth, but no accidents I’m aware of involved it. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-ever-really-been-built-with-an-auto-destruct-system/151724/53 "2003-02-02T05:36:25Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Lodrain \* > \*\*There’s no element after uranium on the periodic table that’s naturally occurring–and plutonium is well after uranium on the table. \*\* Uranium is 92 and Plutonium is 94, if you consider 2 to be well after, then I would have to agree with you. For an interesting read on how deadly plutonium is check out this [paper from the Lawrence Livermore Lab](http://www.llnl.gov/csts/publications/sutcliffe/) ---
**Author:** ![flyboy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/4da419/32.png) [@flyboy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flyboy)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-ever-really-been-built-with-an-auto-destruct-system/151724/54 "2003-02-02T12:33:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kilt-wearin’ man \* > **Minor nitpick - the Air Force doesn’t have any model of P-3 Orion in its inventory. That’s a Navy aircraft. The base model is an antisubmarine patrol aircraft, and the EP-3 is the same airframe with some antenna blisters and a lot of electronics crammed into it. “Self-destruct” seems to pretty much consist of corrupting the hard drives, shredding the print-outs, and doing whatever physical damage you can to the equipment.** Thanks, **Kilt-wearin’ man**. Everything you said is right, except for the shredder. The Navy owns the EP-3, and I can tell you from experience that the one that went down in China had no magical self-destruct devices on board, and not even a shredder. Everything is done manually. So in light of the OP, I wouldn’t put this aircraft on any list of things having an autodestruct capability. ---
**Author:** ![Daylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/45deac/32.png) [@Daylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Daylon)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-ever-really-been-built-with-an-auto-destruct-system/151724/55 "2003-02-02T14:05:44Z")
Just a thought…but as I understand all US nuclear warheads have an amount of plastique built into them, so that if the proper codes aren’t given, they blow up rather than launch. D. ---
**Author:** ![Otto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Otto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otto)\ **Post date:** [February 2, 2003, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-ever-really-been-built-with-an-auto-destruct-system/151724/56 "2003-02-02T15:20:37Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by The Scrivener \* > \*\*Oh, I know… I was trying to remember the make and model, but couldn’t! I read that some police organizations are clamoring for all of those [very dangerous model] patrol cars to be replaced by SUV’s, which are very dangerous in their own right, both for their propensity to turn over on a dime, and to decapitate the hapless occupants of ordinary cars whose head-level cabins matches up with the SUV bumper. > > Talk about going from the frying pan into the fire… \*\* It’s the Ford Crown Victoria. Ford’s [being sued](http://www.cnn.com/2003/LAW/01/30/crown.victoria.lawsuit/) over the police deaths. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-ever-really-been-built-with-an-auto-destruct-system/151724.md?page=2)