# Has anything in the Bible been proven false? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 20, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068 "2005-06-20T16:18:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/1 "2005-06-20T16:18:00Z")
…and is still false? ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/2 "2005-06-20T16:31:59Z")
Levitcus 11:5 And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. Leviticus 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. Hares and coneys do not chew cud. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/3 "2005-06-20T16:39:34Z")
Of course, they may have chewed cud in Biblical times and have since evolved away from that… ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/4 "2005-06-20T16:47:17Z")
I never understood why dividething the hoof was needed for chewething the cud. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/5 "2005-06-20T16:49:56Z")
Or, as Rabbi Slifkin suggests, it does something enough like “chewing its cud” to be seen as the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/6 "2005-06-20T16:51:32Z")
IIRC, wasn’t there a passage in the bible that made an incorrect claim in how to calculate the circumference of a circle? Something like used 3.0 for the value of Pi (or maybe it was C=(3)x(D)). I don’t remember exactly…but it was clearly wrong, and since math didn’t also evolve, it stays wrong. Unless I’m wrong of course and misremembering, which wouldn’t be the first time. 🙂 -XT ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/7 "2005-06-20T16:51:49Z")
**stpauler** , where are you going with your question? There are numerous errors of fact that can be found in the bible, and they do not revert to being true at later dates. There are numerous claims made in the bible that people believe are either in error or are contradictory. We have this sort of discussion all the time, around here. It would be nice to know before the thread turns into a complete mess just what you intended with your question. Are you about to argue about Creationism? Are you looking to prove or disprove basic Christian (or Jewish) theology? Are you looking to compare/contrast the Bible and the Qur’an? Are you looking for a historical debate, and naturalist debate, a theological debate, a semantic debate? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/8 "2005-06-20T16:53:35Z")
> [@](#): > > Levitcus 11:5 And the coney, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. > Leviticus 11:6 And the hare, because he cheweth the cud, but divideth not the hoof; he is unclean unto you. > > Hares and coneys do not chew cud. Well, to play _angelic_ advocate here, bth the hare and the coney chew “pellets” (recent droppings) that still have a lot of nourishment in them (rabbit digestive systems, like ours, aren’t 100% efficient), in much the same manner that cows and other ruminants bring up partially digested food fronm their stomaches (the “cud”) and rechew it. There’s a pretty good parallel there, and it’s a testimeny to ancient powers of observation. you could make a case that what’s been translated as “chewing the cud” could be a mistranslation of , say, “rechewing”. It’s not necessarily a mistake at all. The authors of Leviticus were trying to get a consistent classification sceme going, as well. The real reasons may not have been their perceived reasons. see the relevant chapters in Marvin Harris’ book **Good to Eat** (AKA **The Sacred Cow and the Abominable Pig** ). as for finding something that’s demonstrably wrong in the Bible – that opens a _Big_ can of worms, since this is a “live” issue for a lot of people. I’d take issue with a literal six-day creation, A worldwide flood (especially when part of it comes from “the waters of the deep”), the origin of the rainbow after the Flood, the origin of languages at a Tower of Babel, and so on. I find it hard to believe in the Bible’s views on inheritance of ringstraked cattle, too. And of honeybees building a hive in a lion’s carcass. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/9 "2005-06-20T17:09:14Z")
The Hebrew words “Shafan” and “Arneves” do not mean hare and coney. There have been numerous attempts to identify the animals that those words refer to, but there has never been precise agreement on it, even if some non-Jewish translators have decided to be so bold as to offer an identified species as such. BobLibDem: > [@](#): > > I never understood why dividething the hoof was needed for chewething the cud. It’s not needed for it. It’s just two distinct signs of a Kosher land animal. They tend to mostly overlap…no doubt due to a common evolutionary ancestor…but not entirely (e.g., camel, pig). ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/10 "2005-06-20T17:16:32Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > Or, as Rabbi Slifkin suggests, it does something enough like “chewing its cud” to be seen as the same thing. Is that the feces-eating that **CalMeacham** refers to? I bet if you had the choice between chewing something you regurgitated, and chewing your own shit, you might consider the two to be different enough to NOT be seen as the same thing! ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/11 "2005-06-20T17:17:45Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > The Hebrew words “Shafan” and “Arneves” do not mean hare and coney. There have been numerous attempts to identify the animals that those words refer to, but there has never been precise agreement on it, even if some non-Jewish translators have decided to be so bold as to offer an identified species as such. Is it _because_ they are referred to as chewing cud that some think they do not mean hare and coney, or are there other reasons? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/12 "2005-06-20T17:36:54Z")
> [@](#): > > 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. > 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. > 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. > 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. > 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day. > 1:6 And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. > 1:7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. > 1:8 And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. > 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. > 1:10 And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good. > 1:11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. > 1:12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good. > 1:13 And the evening and the morning were the third day. > 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years: > 1:15 And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so. > 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also. > 1:17 And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth, > 1:18 And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good. > 1:19 And the evening and the morning were the fourth day. > 1:20 And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven. > 1:21 And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good. > 1:22 And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth. > 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day. > 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so. > 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good. > 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. > 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. > 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. > 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. > 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. > 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day. > 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them. > 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made. > 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. > 2:4 These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made the earth and the heavens, > 2:5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man to till the ground. > 2:6 But there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground. > 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. > 2:8 And the LORD God planted a garden eastward in Eden; and there he put the man whom he had formed. > 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil. > 2:10 And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads. > 2:11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold; > 2:12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone. > 2:13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia. > 2:14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates. > 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. > 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: > 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. > 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him. > 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof. > 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. > 2:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; > 2:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man. > 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. > 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. > 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed. So did God create the animals before He created man or did He create the animals after He created man? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/13 "2005-06-20T17:37:47Z")
Revtim: It’s because of it. Obviously, there are no known cud-chewers which do not have genuine split hooves outside of the camel family, so the general answer to “what are the Shafan and Arneves” falls into three categories: 1. Don’t know…must have been an animal known to the ancients that went extinct or we’re unfamiliar with 2. Not genuine cud-chewers (ruminants) but animals that chew their food twice in some other way. This is what leads to the common translation of hare or rabbit for “Arneves” (and in fact in modern Israeli Hebrew that’s the accepted word for hare/rabbit), and to the various attempts to identify “Shafan” with rock badger, hyrax, coney, and possibly other species. 3. Sub-species of camel - some have offered that one of them refers to the llama, for example. Bottom line, though, is we just can’t say for certain what species those Hebrew animal names refer to, and whatever translations exist - even from Judaic sources - are merely guesses. ---
**Author:** ![stpauler](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9d8465/32.png) [@stpauler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stpauler)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/14 "2005-06-20T17:41:31Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > **stpauler** , where are you going with your question? I was posed with the challenge (off board) that nothing in the Bible has been proven false. Where I’m going to would be to find the answer to that question or at least find out if there are verses in the Bible that have been proven are not true. I’m looking more for things like “The Bible said that the Earth was at the center of the universe and all things revolve around it in verse XXX but we’ve now proven that to be untrue” or just like Revtim’s example in the 2nd post. I hope that helps. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/15 "2005-06-20T17:41:42Z")
Little Nemo: Before he created man. The verse you quoted at 2:19 is more accurately translated that G-d HAD CREATED the animals, past perfect tense (and is now offering the man the chance to name them). ---
**Author:** ![Walton\_Firm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/45deac/32.png) [@Walton\_Firm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walton_Firm)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/16 "2005-06-20T17:49:09Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > IIRC, wasn’t there a passage in the bible that made an incorrect claim in how to calculate the circumference of a circle? Something like used 3.0 for the value of Pi (or maybe it was C=(3)x(D)). I don’t remember exactly…but it was clearly wrong, and since math didn’t also evolve, it stays wrong. You are undoubtedly thinking of 2 Chronicles 4:2, in which a molten sea is constructed with a diameter of ten cubits and a circumference of thirty cubits. However, this does not really prove that “the Bible says that pi equals three”, because the wording and context do not suggest that the measurements given are necessarily exact. Maybe the circumference was actually 30.4 cubits, and the diameter was closer to 9.7, and the Biblical author decided to just round to the nearest integer. And anyway, just because King Solomon has the ability, when instructed to do so by God, to construct circles which violate the laws of geometrics, that does not mean that _all_ circles share the same property. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/17 "2005-06-20T17:49:23Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > IIRC, wasn’t there a passage in the bible that made an incorrect claim in how to calculate the circumference of a circle? Something like used 3.0 for the value of Pi (or maybe it was C=(3)x(D)). I don’t remember exactly…but it was clearly wrong, and since math didn’t also evolve, it stays wrong. > -XT 1Kings7:23 “And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to another… and a line of 30 cubits did encompass it round about”. However, that’s not a bad _estimation_. I mean , if the Bible said it was “ten leagues” from one city to another, but it was really 10 and a bit, I don’t think dudes would be getting excited about it. The Bible makes some references to the Sun rising, where we know that the Earth rotates- but since we still use that term “sunrise” today, even in a fairly scientific context, I don’t think you can say that’s “wrong” either. Pre-David, most of the Archeology/History is doubtful, but still disputed. Few Archeologists think that the Exodus and prior is _literal_. Some of the “birth of Jesus” history in the Gospels is highly disputed. They include Whales as a 'fish", which is an incorrect definition now, but pre-Linnaus wasn’t wrong. So- nothing that can’t be explained or argued, AFAIK. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/18 "2005-06-20T18:12:36Z")
> [@](#): > > They include Whales as a 'fish", which is an incorrect definition now, but pre-Linnaus wasn’t wrong. If you’re referring to the Book of Joanh, then I don’t think it ever calls the creature a “Whale”. That’s a modern interpretation. But read “Moby Dick”, or other whaling books from the 19th century – whalers called whales “fish”, and if that’s their particular terminology, then so be it. It doesn’t mean that they’re ignorant and don’t know the proper classification. (I’ve heard that you shouldn’t call your “rifle” a “gun” in the Army – even though it’s perfectly OK as a civilian to do that, or you get to put on an interesting performance. But I’ll bet that’s not true anymore.) ---
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/19 "2005-06-20T18:27:17Z")
> [@](#): > > 1:6 > And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters. > > 1:7 > And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so. > > 1:8 > And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day. The author here clearly believes that the blue color of the sky is actually “water” — as though there were a second sea in the sky and a huge dome of glass beneath it, keeping it from crashing down on us. That would be incorrect. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [June 20, 2005, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/20 "2005-06-20T18:31:19Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > IIRC, wasn’t there a passage in the bible that made an incorrect claim in how to calculate the circumference of a circle? Something like used 3.0 for the value of Pi (or maybe it was C=(3)x(D)). I don’t remember exactly…but it was clearly wrong, and since math didn’t also evolve, it stays wrong. > > Unless I’m wrong of course and misremembering, which wouldn’t be the first time. 🙂 > > -XT It comes up in [this Cecil column.](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_341.html) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068.md?page=2)