# Has anything in the Bible been proven false? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 20, 2005, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068 "2005-06-20T16:18:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/41 "2005-06-21T04:04:13Z")
**bizzwire** > [@](#): > > 1. All life currently on earth was created all at the same time. > 2. Nothing has changed since then. > 3. There are many organisms/parasites which can only live/reproduce in humans. Woh! ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/42 "2005-06-21T04:11:42Z")
> [@](#): > > 1. Sub-species of camel - some have offered that one of them refers to the llama, for example. > [@](#): > > I’d be impressed by a biblical Hebrew word that meant llama. Did they have words for tomato and tobacco, too? If we can accept the idea that God was telling ancient Hebrews rules about llamas even though none of them were going to encounter one for centuries, maybe we can theorize that some other inexplicable biblical passages refer to objects and events that we haven’t encountered yet. Maybe in another five hundred years, it’ll be obvious to everyone what behemoths and nivim are. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/43 "2005-06-21T05:16:33Z")
> [@](#): > > Maybe in another five hundred years, it’ll be obvious to everyone what behemoths and nivim are. We already know what the behemoth is. Ever see a Ford Excursion? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 5:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/44 "2005-06-21T05:33:01Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I find it hard to believe in the Bible’s views on inheritance of ringstraked cattle, too. 😕😕 ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/45 "2005-06-21T07:11:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > 😕😕 See [Genesis 30:25-43](http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Gen%2030:25-43&version=31) (note the wording of [Genesis 30:35 in the King James Version](http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Genesis%2030:35;&version=9;)). There are also the dueling genealogies of Joseph, the husband of Mary in [Matthew 1:1-17](http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Matthew%201:1-17;&version=31;) and [Luke 3:23-38](http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?search=Luke%203:23-38;&version=31;). As discussed above, determined believers will come up with explanations for this, but they aren’t supported by the text and are somewhat less convincing than die-hard _Star Wars_ fans trying to explain away the infamous “parsecs” line. ---
**Author:** ![marymargaret](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@marymargaret](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marymargaret)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 7:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/46 "2005-06-21T07:18:43Z")
The whole Noak’s Ark think seems like a piece of fiction to me. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 7:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/47 "2005-06-21T07:41:37Z")
On the lion carcass thing; the lion is killed by Samson while he is on the way to find a wife from among the Philistines and he finds bees nesting in it when he returns ‘some time later’, intending to marry her - notwithstanding the veracity of the story as a whole, this is an unspecificed duration - quite possibly long enough for the lion’s carcass to decay to the point of being a defleshed ribcage covered with dried-out skin. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/48 "2005-06-21T10:30:07Z")
The mustard seed is not the smallest seed. One can get a good apple off a bad tree, a good tree can have a bad apple. Many sparrows die,and are not looked after. Animals suffer the ssame deceases as man but have not sinned, and have died all through the history of earth. Jesus came to save all men, but spoke in parables so some would not believe,and be saved. With time to think I could mention many other errors. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/49 "2005-06-21T12:03:52Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > You forget Gen1:2, where there was already darkness, and Gen1:3 with the famous “And God said, let there be light; and there was light.” > > So in other words, God created Light before He created the Sun.Then he _named_ the Light “Day”. That presents no logical problems unless you think that no Light existed anywhere in the Universe before the Sun. I’d image the “Big Bang” to be rather bright, and that was before Sol was born. Bah, light and Sun can be exclusive of each other. God would have had to create light first for the sun to work 😃 How does the phrase “And God said, let there be light” create a problem? Light abounds throughout the heavens and is not exclusively an Earth-Sun property. The greater light (the Sun) he called day. No problem there. The lessor light (the moon), etc. No problem either. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/50 "2005-06-21T12:04:09Z")
Regarding that lion’s carcass thing – I thought somebody might turn it up if I l;eft it alone awhile (like the ringstraked thing), but no one has. Yes, I find it pretty unlikely that bees would build a hive in a lion carcass (unless there was nothing else around). Some Biblical scholars have noted that there are some flies that resemble the local honeybees, and suspect that the tellers/authors of the story of Samson (and the later riddle in, I think, the book of Daniel) mistook the flies laying their eggs in the dead beast for bees. In that case the misidentification qualifies as a falsity, as requested by the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/51 "2005-06-21T13:23:25Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Regarding that lion’s carcass thing – I thought somebody might turn it up if I l;eft it alone awhile (like the ringstraked thing), but no one has. > Yes, I find it pretty unlikely that bees would build a hive in a lion carcass (unless there was nothing else around). Some Biblical scholars have noted that there are some flies that resemble the local honeybees, and suspect that the tellers/authors of the story of Samson (and the later riddle in, I think, the book of Daniel) mistook the flies laying their eggs in the dead beast for bees. In that case the misidentification qualifies as a falsity, as requested by the OP. What a strange way to try to rationalise the story (as opposed to just brushing it off) - sure, some flies look like bees, but the story also says Samson scooped out some of their honey, ate some and gave some to his parents. NB: I’m not insisting that this makes the story _true_, it just makes nonsense of an explanation that identifies the bees as carrion flies. ---
**Author:** ![Critical1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@Critical1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Critical1)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/52 "2005-06-21T14:14:52Z")
what about the universe being around 6000 years old? ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/53 "2005-06-21T14:19:26Z")
> [@](#): > > What a strange way to try to rationalise the story (as opposed to just brushing it off) - sure, some flies look like bees, but the story also says Samson scooped out some of their honey, ate some and gave some to his parents. > > NB: I’m not insisting that this makes the story true, it just makes nonsense of an explanation that identifies the bees as carrion flies. Not strange at all – unless you insist that the entire story stands or fal;ls as one. But if the “bee in a lion carcass” thing is just one bit of folk belief or folklore, it can fit very neatly into a pre-existing story. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/54 "2005-06-21T14:21:47Z")
Well, there’s the rub; proven false _according to whom?_ - YECreationists would have you believe that everything in the Bible is absolutely true and in the cases where science utterly disagrees, that they have at least as strong an argument on their side. And then, _what do we mean by ‘false’?_ - the events detailed in the gospels surrounding the account of the resurrection of Jesus are all a little inconsistent with each other (in terms of the number of and identity of humans and angels present, and the exact order of events), but it will be (perhaps quite reasonably) argued that a few inconsistencies in the witness accounts _doesn’t mean the even never occurred_. ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/55 "2005-06-21T14:22:14Z")
I don’t think that was the Bible itself–that was a medieval Biblical scholar calculating the age of the universe by using the ages of all the generations or something. Here’s a good [Wikipedia article](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bishop_Ussher) on him. So, you won’t find the 6,000 years figure in the Bible, but you can supposedly use it to get there. Of course, you can use it for a lot of things. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/56 "2005-06-21T14:24:58Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > Not strange at all – unless you insist that the entire story stands or fal;ls as one. But if the “bee in a lion carcass” thing is just one bit of folk belief or folklore, it can fit very neatly into a pre-existing story. I think I see what you mean; that the _writers_ of the Samson tale saw flies in a carcass, mistook them for bees and wove a tale that included bees and honey etc… Good point, but in any case, it’s only a _plausible explanation_ of how the story _might have_ come about - again, not that my purpose is to assert its veracity, but we don’t have a solid case of something proven false here. ---
**Author:** ![spectrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@spectrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spectrum)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/57 "2005-06-21T14:48:56Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Of course, they may have chewed cud in Biblical times and have since evolved away from that… Ha ha. Evolution doesn’t work that quickly. ---
**Author:** ![zev\_steinhardt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/97f17d/32.png) [@zev\_steinhardt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zev_steinhardt)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/58 "2005-06-21T15:21:02Z")
The Rabbi Slifkin that **Captain Amazing** references, wrote a book called The Camel, The Hare & The Hyrax\*\*. This book focuses on the four animals (the above mentioned three and the pig) that the Torah lists as having only one of the two kosher signs. Everyone agrees that the _gamal_ is a camel. And there is no question that it, in fact, is a ruminant and does not have split hooves. Likewise, everyone agrees that the _chazir_ is a pig, and that the pig is not a ruminant but does have fully split hooves. Rabbi Slifkin goes on to prove from various sources that the _shafan_ is the hyrax and that the _arneves_ is the hare. He goes on to explore the possibilities that the _shafan_ and _arneves_ are possibly other creatures (such as a rabbit and a hare, for example), or are possibly unknown and/or extinct creatures, but rejects those ideas based on several sources. Of course, that does lead to the difficulty that neither the hyrax nor the hare are true ruminants as we know them. However, he considers the fact that these creatures were common to the people of the area and time that the Torah was given and they would not have been included in the Torah’s list if they didn’t fit the general rule. Of course, part of the answer deals with how _ma’ale geirah_ (bringing up the cud) is defined. One must keep in mind that Biblical definitions do not necessarily match those of our current scientific understanding. For example, the Torah lists 24 birds that are non-kosher. One of those listed, as is well known, is the bat. The bat, as we all know, is not a bird, but a mammal. The answer is that when the Torah uses the word _ofe_, it does not necessarily have the same meaning as that of a zoologist using the word “bird.” More likely, it means “flying thing.” To back up this idea, a flying insect is called a _sheretz ha-ofe_ (_sheretz_ meaning “crawling thing” such as an insect or small rodent). So, too, when the Torah uses the term _ma’ale geirah_ it does not necessarily have the same precise meaning that “ruminant” does in English – even though “ruminant” may be the closest available English translation. Rabbi Slifkin goes on to explain that the hare engages in a practice called cecotrophy (whereby the animal reingest food in another manner) which may qualify it as a _ma’ale geirah_. In addition, the hyrax may qualify based either on the fact that it’s stomach is complex as a ruminants or that there are some studies that show that the hyrax engages in a practice called merycism, which is a very simple form of regurgitation and rechewing (although it is not 100% clear that the hyrax actually does this). Zev Steinhardt ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/59 "2005-06-21T15:32:43Z")
When discussing the Bible, one must: 1. Account for translation 2. Account for allegory Just thought I’d bring that up. Nothing in this English translation of a Hebrew text (by way of countless other translations) is clear-cut. Reading the Bible is fun and informative because, first of all, it’s a great story, and second of all, there is more wisdom and knowledge in it than many realize. Let’s not forget how old this text is, and how many influences of even older cultures have gone into the final product. It’s a true testament (har!) to human creativity and inspiration…and even if you don’t believe it’s the divine and inspired word of God, it’s still a damn creative explanation for the mysteries of life. And it’s got some cool characters too. The Bible class I took in college really showed me how, even if you’re not religious, the Bible is a great book. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [June 21, 2005, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068/60 "2005-06-21T15:36:10Z")
> [@Walton Firm](#): > > You are undoubtedly thinking of 2 Chronicles 4:2, in which a molten sea is constructed with a diameter of ten cubits and a circumference of thirty cubits. > > However, this does not really prove that “the Bible says that pi equals three”, because the wording and context do not suggest that the measurements given are necessarily exact. Maybe the circumference was actually 30.4 cubits, and the diameter was closer to 9.7, and the Biblical author decided to just round to the nearest integer. > > And anyway, just because King Solomon has the ability, when instructed to do so by God, to construct circles which violate the laws of geometrics, that does not mean that _all_ circles share the same property. 🙂 Another explanation I heard was that one measurement was the external & the other was the internal, with the difference being in the actual width of the bowl’s lip. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-anything-in-the-bible-been-proven-false/309068.md?page=4)