# Has Apple Misstepped Badly with the iPhone 4? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 2, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350 "2010-07-02T21:48:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2010, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/21 "2010-07-03T23:18:47Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > I’ll repost some of what I said in the mpsimm thread - > > 1. The physical problem is genuine. [The Anandtech article was linked up thread, but it’s worth linking again, for those who missed it.](http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/2) > > Here’s their conclusion: Nice selective edit. From the very same article: > [@](#): > > From my day of testing, I’ve determined that the iPhone 4 performs much better than the 3GS in situations where signal is very low, at -113 dBm (1 bar). Previously, dropping this low all but guaranteed that calls would drop, fail to be placed, and data would no longer be transacted at all. I can honestly say that I’ve never held onto so many calls and data simultaneously on 1 bar at -113 dBm as I have with the iPhone 4, so it’s readily apparent that the new baseband hardware is much more sensitive compared to what was in the 3GS. The difference is that reception is massively better on the iPhone 4 in actual use. > > With my bumper case on, I made it further into dead zones than ever before, and into marginal areas that would always drop calls without any problems at all. It’s amazing really to experience the difference in sensitivity the iPhone 4 brings compared to the 3GS, and issues from holding the phone aside, reception is absolutely definitely improved. I felt like I was going places no iPhone had ever gone before. There’s no doubt in my mind this iPhone gets the best cellular reception yet, even though measured signal is lower than the 3GS. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/22 "2010-07-04T00:37:52Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > It’s not that Apple is Magic, it’s that the competition has been so abysmally horrible. Dell was putting out inherently defective machines and didn’t own up. [http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/technology/29dell.html?\_r=1&scp=2&sq=dell&st=cse](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/technology/29dell.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=dell&st=cse) Now they are toast. > \ Dell is nearly my most hated company (barely second to Comcast). My Dell’s motherboard went bad one month out of warranty. And looks to be going bad again. I will never ever buy another thing from Dell. (the last company I boycotted in the is fashion was Circuit City - and where are _they_ now?) ---
**Author:** ![Mosier](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/7ea924/32.png) [@Mosier](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mosier)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/23 "2010-07-04T01:54:08Z")
> [@tingbudong](#): > > heh heh heh heh…you must live in one of the urban areas. My parents’ house is in the geographic center of Las Vegas. When I visit them, I have to step outside to make a phone call because there is no signal. ATT is awful. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/24 "2010-07-04T02:01:49Z")
> [@tingbudong](#): > > heh heh heh heh…you must live in one of the urban areas. I get good signal almost anywhere in Canada that is not outright wildnerness; my job takes me to some pretty rural areas and I can usually get signal. I’ve found one dead spot in the last seven years. The problems AT&T iPhone users report in the USA are without comparison here - lack of coverage IN urban areas is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/848f3c/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_Dunlop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_Dunlop)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/25 "2010-07-04T02:13:19Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > One thing I’ve never seen anyone mention: the iPhone 4 was field tested with a plastic cover that made it look like a previous generation iPhone. Gripping the plastic cover, nobody would have found out about the reception problems. There’s no reason to think putting a thin dielectric around the antenna would entirely mask the attenuation and detuning caused by wrapping a largely saline human hand around it. It’s not how RF currents work. Duct tape would have even less impact. ---
**Author:** ![Merneith](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/57b2e6/32.png) [@Merneith](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Merneith)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/26 "2010-07-04T14:48:04Z")
> [@hajario](#): > > Nice selective edit. From the very same article: 1. This is a thread about the problem with iPhone 4’s exterior antenna dropping calls when touched in a specific spot. Yeah, the iPhone works fine - when you’re not touching it in that particular spot or when you’re wearing the antenna-protecting bumper cover. Who cares? This is not a cheerleading. “We luv the iPhone!” thread. The point of the thread is that the signal drop is for real, it’s reproducible, and it’s preventable by wearing the bumper or by insulating the antenna in someway. (And it’s aggravated by the fact that Apple’s been misrepresenting signal strength all this time.) My quote supported all that. 1. I specifically mentioned that Anandtech suggested everyone wear the bumper case and also that I suspect Apple’s ultimate solution will be to hand out bumper cases for everyone. 2. It’s true that bumper cases make the iphone work better - but telling everyone to buy this $30 case from the Apple Store is not really a win for Apple, in the “Apple is Magic!” department. 3. Pro-tip: A [LiveStrong Bracelet makes a serviceable bumper case](http://www.tuaw.com/2010/07/01/make-your-own-bumper-from-a-souvenir-bracelet/) replacement, though, for those in the market. 4. All of this points up the fact that it was dumb of Apple not to insulate the antenna to begin with. If they’d applied an insulating coating or just made the bumper case built in, they’d have gotten better reception and sidestepped the whole Death Grip issue. 5. Sometimes choosing Form over Function -will- bite you in the ass. ---
**Author:** ![jasg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f0a364/32.png) [@jasg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jasg)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/27 "2010-07-04T15:38:10Z")
> [@Merneith](#): > > … > > 1. All of this points up the fact that it was dumb of Apple not to insulate the antenna to begin with. If they’d applied an insulating coating or just made the bumper case built in, they’d have gotten better reception and sidestepped the whole Death Grip issue. > … I am not an antenna/RF engineer, but from what I understand, a simple insulating coating would do nothing. A thicker dielectric (bumper case) would be needed - think of the difference between zip cord for speakers and Coax for TV - they are not interchangeable. This [article](http://www.antennasys.com/antennasys-blog/2010/7/2/first-impressions-iphone-4.html) points out the lack of effectiveness for a thin insulating tape layer. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/28 "2010-07-04T16:45:46Z")
> [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > It’s not that Apple is Magic, it’s that the competition has been so abysmally horrible. Dell was putting out inherently defective machines and didn’t own up. [http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/technology/29dell.html?\_r=1&scp=2&sq=dell&st=cse](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/29/technology/29dell.html?_r=1&scp=2&sq=dell&st=cse) Now they are toast. > > HP has turned into a producer of garbage with horrible customer service. Their printers absolutely suck. Good luck on getting support with your PC which wiil need it. > > Compaq. Thanks, Carly, for the destruction. You are such a business maven. Almost as impressive as GWB. > > Gateway. Who are they? > > Palm. High flier that is now just totally lame. > > After awhile you get to the point where you accept the flaws just to know that it is mostly right. What Apple does wrong can be infuriating but it’s still a lot better than the other crap that is out there. Right, but there are 1,000,000 other suppliers of PCs you can buy from- or you can build one yourself. When Apple effs up, there’s nobody else to buy from. ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/29 "2010-07-04T18:28:46Z")
I think this a fairly big blow for the iPhone because it has been under serious pressure from Android phones in the last six months so Apple really needed the iPhone 4 to be a hit. And it looked good with fairly strong reviews and excellent early sales. Now the reception problems are at the very least a big PR hit particularly damaging in the US because they feed into existing concerns about AT&T’s network. This is especially a problem because Apple basically releases one new phone a year so if there is a serious problem with it there is no alternative. With Android if you don’t like ,say, the Incredible you can always buy the Droid X. ``` It's become something of a cliche but I think the history of the personal computer in the 80's and early 90's is going to repeat itself with the smartphone with Android playing the role of Windows and beating a much more closed platform by Apple. It will probably happen more quickly this time too. ``` ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/30 "2010-07-04T19:52:34Z")
Well, I think Apple is going to have to take a step away from the “New Phone Every June” business model they’ve been playing with the last couple of years. It makes them predictable and beatable, in that the competition can see what Apple comes out, then put a superior phone on the market within a few months. All by simply tweaking their specs a bit. I’m kinda seeing the same thing with the iPad. It is basically, storage, memory and processor wise, a large iPhone 3GS without _part_ of the phone (and the camera). Then a couple of months later they come out with the iPhone 4, which has a better processor and more internal memory (ram) than the iPad. The iPhone 4 and iPhone 3GS also got the upgraded OS, where the iPad is stuck with the older OS for another couple of months until Apple tweaks it for the iPad. All of which seems backwards to me. The iPad should have had the faster processor, better memory and better OS coming out of the gate, then made ready in time for use with the new iPhone. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/31 "2010-07-04T20:02:27Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > It’s become something of a cliche but I think the history of the personal computer in the 80’s and early 90’s is going to repeat itself with the smartphone with Android playing the role of Windows and beating a much more closed platform by Apple. It will probably happen more quickly this time too. It’s funny, my some of my fellow engineers and I, three of whom have and love our iPhones, were having this exact same conversation on Friday. We came to a similar conclusion too. ---
**Author:** ![Khadaji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Khadaji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khadaji)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/32 "2010-07-04T21:26:39Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > \ > > ``` > It's become something of a cliche but I think the history of the personal computer in the 80's and early 90's is going to repeat itself with the smartphone with Android playing the role of Windows and beating a much more closed platform by Apple. It will probably happen more quickly this time too. > > ``` It is odd - I have been thinking about this very comparison lately. I’ve been surprised that they’ve been on top as long as they have - especially with the iPod. ---
**Author:** ![R.P.McMurphy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7993a0/32.png) [@R.P.McMurphy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/R.P.McMurphy)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2010, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/33 "2010-07-04T23:59:05Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Right, but there are 1,000,000 other suppliers of PCs you can buy from- or you can build one yourself. When Apple effs up, there’s nobody else to buy from. Yes, but its the same crappy parts (built with cost as the ultimate consideration) running the same crappy operating system that is prone to hacking, viruses and security attacks and crashes. How many people (percentage of the market) want to, or can, build a machine by themselves? I used to do it and gave up because it was too big of a hassle. How many people (percentage of the market) want to buy a no-name machine and then have to worry support and repair? The big name, well known computer makers have absolutely failed their customers. I’ve purchased dozens of machines and been through Dell, Compaq and HP. I don’t want anything to do with any of them again. I junked two HP printers less than 2 years old in the last week. I junked a top end HP computer that was still under warranty (with supposed in-home service, which was total BS) because I couldn’t spend anymore time on the phone talking to somebody in India with no authority to fix the problem. My time is too valuable. As imperfect as Apple is, I’ve gotten my use out of their products and replaced them at my choice rather than having them fail me. That’s the difference. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/34 "2010-07-05T00:20:41Z")
> [@Khadaji](#): > > It is odd - I have been thinking about this very comparison lately. I’ve been surprised that they’ve been on top as long as they have - especially with the iPod. Brand can be a powerful thing. Of course, it can also fall apart very quickly indeed, which was sort of why I wrote the OP. If I’d told you guys four years ago that soon Nintendo would re-establish its supremacy in home gaming consoles and knock Sony into a deep 2nd/3rd place you’d all have thought me insane. Then the PS3 was late, and expensive, I like Apple products, but their recent product releases have just a hint of laziness and reliance on brand. The iPhone is not going away anytime soon, but these are the sorts of errors that sometimes add up. Steve Jobs isn’t infallible. ---
**Author:** ![E-Sabbath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e19adc/32.png) [@E-Sabbath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/E-Sabbath)\ **Post date:** [July 5, 2010, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/35 "2010-07-05T12:54:43Z")
I’m afraid you’re wrong, Rick. Steve Jobs is infallible, and when it appears he isn’t, reality is wrong. Reality Distortion Field, remember? ---
**Author:** ![Lantern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d26b3c/32.png) [@Lantern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lantern)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/36 "2010-07-06T21:48:00Z")
And now there are [reports](http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/05/users-continue-to-experience-problems-with-iphone-4-proximity-sensors/)of problems with the proximity sensor on iPhone 4. Overall it does look like a pretty serious quality control failure on this device. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/37 "2010-07-06T22:29:12Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Does not compute. Oh, get lost. I liked the phone when I saw it in person, and the Apple Store near me had some left over at the end of the day, so I bought one. That doesn’t make me one of those people. > [@Really Not All That Bright](#): > > Right, but there are 1,000,000 other suppliers of PCs you can buy from- or you can build one yourself. When Apple effs up, there’s nobody else to buy from. What are you talking about? There are at least hundreds of companies that make cell phones. It’s true that you can’t buy an iPhone from anyone but Apple, just like you can’t buy a Droid from anyone but Motorola, and you can’t buy a Mustang from anyone but Ford. It often seems like there’s nobody else to buy from but Apple because their competitors’ products are such pieces of shit. So, what are you doing, blaming Apple for making their competitors look bad? ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2010, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/38 "2010-07-06T22:34:13Z")
> [@Lantern](#): > > And now there are [reports](http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/05/users-continue-to-experience-problems-with-iphone-4-proximity-sensors/)of problems with the proximity sensor on iPhone 4. Overall it does look like a pretty serious quality control failure on this device. That’s old news and a pretty rare manufacturing defect. The antenna things is a design issue that will affect every phone under the right circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/39 "2010-07-07T04:57:26Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > I’m sorry for the hijack, but I want to hear a little more about this. AT&T and Verizon use completely incompatible technology, GSM/UMTS and CDMA respectively. Unless by ‘modify’ you mean ‘disassemble, replace the chips and antenna, and re-write the software’, I don’t see how this is possible. > > ETA: my iPhone 4 has much better reception than my 3GS did on its best day. I work in one of those buildings that must have been built out of lead. Cellphone reception is abysmal for all carriers, but the 4 can place and receive calls in my office most of the time, while the 3GS almost never could. I dunno, they ship it off for two weeks to some place in Texas and when it comes back I can run it on Verizon. Apparently you can only do this on the original iphone. > [@R.P.McMurphy](#): > > Good for you. I got rid of Verizon and never looked back after the horrible experience I had with Palm, the Palm Treo and the absolutely abysmal customer [lack of] support from Verizon. > > I love my iPhone. I love my iphone as well, hate AT&T reception. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/40 "2010-07-07T14:43:39Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > Oh, get lost. I liked the phone when I saw it in person, and the Apple Store near me had some left over at the end of the day, so I bought one. That doesn’t make me one of those people. Suuuure. 😉 > [@](#): > > What are you talking about? There are at least hundreds of companies that make cell phones. It’s true that you can’t buy an iPhone from anyone but Apple, just like you can’t buy a Droid from anyone but Motorola, and you can’t buy a Mustang from anyone but Ford. > > It often seems like there’s nobody else to buy from but Apple because their competitors’ products are such pieces of shit. So, what are you doing, blaming Apple for making their competitors look bad? There’s nobody else to buy _Apple OS_ computers from, genius. Did you not read his post? He was talking about computers. As far as the “hundreds of companies that make cell phones” bit, thank you for making my point for me: there are hundreds of companies making Symbian (and, to a lesser extent, Android) phones, and just one making iPhone OS phones. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350.md?page=3)