# Has Apple Misstepped Badly with the iPhone 4? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 2, 2010, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350 "2010-07-02T21:48:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/41 "2010-07-07T15:30:21Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I love my iphone as well, hate AT&T reception. Seems to be getting worse: > [@](#): > > In a rapidly-growing thread started in our forums over the weekend, iPhone 4 users from a number of locations around the United States have been reporting significant drops in data upload speeds on AT&T’s 3G network. As noted by Gizmodo, many of these users are seeing upload speeds maxing out at only 100 kbps, far below the 1500 kbps these same users were seeing before the weekend on their HSUPA-compatible devices. > > SOURCE: [iPhone 4 Users on AT&T Experiencing Widespread Drops in Upload Speed - MacRumors](http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/06/iphone-4-users-on-atandt-experiencing-widespread-drops-in-upload-speed/) I have an iPhone 3G. The phone itself is nice and I have enjoyed it. What I have not enjoyed is AT&Ts horrid network. I live in Chicago (not a suburb…in the city) so coverage is not a problem. I get dropped calls constantly, drift into dead areas all the time and get things like audio streams consistently stuttering. I live not far from Wrigley Field and if there is a baseball game going just forget it…data flat out stops (granted there are a lot of people in one place but hey AT&T…that should not be a surprise and could be planned for). A ride on the Red Line mass transit? Drops and dead spots all along the line. I know cell providers line highways because that is where people are. Guess where people also are when they commute? The trains! Plan for that? Change anything in two years? Nope. Why invest in a better network when your customers are stuck in a two year plan? Add to that: - Steve Job’s arrogance (always there but most recently seen in his poo-pooing legitimate customer concerns over the expensive iPhone 4) - Apple’s censorship of its App Store (I do not want them deciding what is or is not appropriate for me) - Continued chaining to iTunes and its DRM (Jobs said he hated DRM and would drop it but record companies made him do it…till record companies dropped it and he continued). If I want to put music _I bought and paid for_ on another device of mine I should be allowed to. If I drop the iPhone I should be able to move the music to a Droid or something. I’ve had it. Apple can kiss my ass and I think it is a matter of time now that other phones are out that compete very well with the iPhone. My contract is up in a month and I will be getting a Droid X or HTC EVO. I know someone else who is dropping Apple as well. I suspect others will come to that conclusion after they realize they paid $2600+ over two years for this shit. ---
**Author:** ![Page\_Fault](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ad7895/32.png) [@Page\_Fault](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Page_Fault)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/42 "2010-07-07T16:06:27Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > - Steve Job’s arrogance (always there but most recently seen in his poo-pooing legitimate customer concerns over the expensive iPhone 4) Are you referring to the ‘relax, it’s just a phone’ email exchange that was later discovered to have been falsified? Of course, Jobs is STILL arrogant, but let’s just use the facts 😉 > [@](#): > > - Continued chaining to iTunes and its DRM (Jobs said he hated DRM and would drop it but record companies made him do it…till record companies dropped it and he continued). If I want to put music _I bought and paid for_ on another device of mine I should be allowed to. If I drop the iPhone I should be able to move the music to a Droid or something. iTunes hasn’t had DRM on any of its stuff for a long while… well over a year, IIRC. I play my songs in my car MP3 player just fine. Anything capable of playing AAC files should be able to play them just fine. ---
**Author:** ![Anamorphic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/anamorphic/32/3057_2.png) [@Anamorphic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anamorphic)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/43 "2010-07-07T16:09:29Z")
I love all my Apple products, but I’m not an Apple apologist. I think they’ve made a definite mis-step here, certainly at the very least in their PR handling of the issue. I have the new iPhone, and can reproduce the antenna issue by trying to, but I’ll have to say, it hasn’t effected my day-to-day use. I can only make the bars disappear very deliberately, and it hasn’t seemed to have happened in casual use. That said, yes, they handled the issue very poorly, and it was especially aggravating hearing Jobs’ arrogant responses. Whack-a-Mole, I agree with all your point here, except for: > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > - Continued chaining to iTunes and its DRM (Jobs said he hated DRM and would drop it but record companies made him do it…till record companies dropped it and he continued). If I want to put music _I bought and paid for_ on another device of mine I should be allowed to. If I drop the iPhone I should be able to move the music to a Droid or something. iTunes music store has been DRM-free for over a year now. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/44 "2010-07-07T16:36:36Z")
I am due for a new phone, but do not wanna leave Verizon. My plan was to wait out the ATT/Apple exclusivity thing but now I’m waffling. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/45 "2010-07-07T16:46:26Z")
> [@Anamorphic](#): > > iTunes music store has been DRM-free for over a year now. I actually stopped buying music from iTunes over a year ago (because of the DRM crap). Have not checked back since. Last I saw on iTunes was DRM free music cost extra and only some music could be had that way. If it is all DRM free now is all the music I previously bought had its DRM removed? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/46 "2010-07-07T16:49:36Z")
> [@Page\_Fault](#): > > Are you referring to the ‘relax, it’s just a phone’ email exchange that was later discovered to have been falsified? Of course, Jobs is STILL arrogant, but let’s just use the facts 😉 Actually I was thinking of: > [@](#): > > **Steve Jobs solves iPhone 4 reception problems: ‘don’t hold it that way’** > > Emailed by the website Ars Technica about the problem, Jobs responded in his normal terse manner: “Just avoid holding it in that way,” he wrote - a response from Jobs that was received by a number of gadget review sites and customers in the US. > > SOURCE: [Steve Jobs solves iPhone 4 reception problems: 'don't hold it that way' | iPhone | The Guardian](http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/jun/25/iphone-reception-problems-solved) Was that falsified too? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/47 "2010-07-07T16:53:06Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > I am due for a new phone, but do not wanna leave Verizon. My plan was to wait out the ATT/Apple exclusivity thing but now I’m waffling. I saw a report, supposedly leaked by Verizon, that the iPhone will be available on Verizon come January once Apple’s five year contract is over with AT&T. No idea if that is true or not though. Take with a big lump of salt. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/48 "2010-07-07T17:35:56Z")
I’m neither an Apple fanboy nor a hater— I own an iPod Nano and an iPhone 3G, and have been happy with both of them (no problems even with AT&T’s coverage)—and from my narrow viewpoint, I think they have misstepped. Three weeks ago I was stoked about upgrading to an iPhone 4 as soon as possible, but now I’m in “wait and see” mode and may decide to just keep my 3G. I don’t find their “explanation” credible in the least; not only is it nonsensical (the algorithm error \*corrects \*itself when you touch the antenna? Huh?) but at best it amounts to “it’s okay, your signal actually sucks \*all \*the time!” As one wit in [CNN.com](http://CNN.com)’s user comments noted, modifying the OS to display fewer bars is a bit like fixing the “CHECK ENGINE” light in your car by covering it with a piece of black electrical tape. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/49 "2010-07-07T19:08:28Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Seems to be getting worse:. The data download thing ends up being a software bug in some of the Lucent equipment. [Cite](http://www.iphonehacks.com/2010/07/att-drop-in-iphone-data-upload-speeds-due-to-software-bug-working-on-a-fix.html) Also, the Verizon rumor was supposed to be January at first but now they are saying December of 2011. It’ll take some doing to develop a CDMA phone. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/50 "2010-07-07T19:11:55Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > As one wit in [CNN.com](http://CNN.com)’s user comments noted, modifying the OS to display fewer bars is a bit like fixing the “CHECK ENGINE” light in your car by covering it with a piece of black electrical tape. Well, my car no longer tells me to CHECK ENGINE. Ergo, the problem is fixed. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/51 "2010-07-07T19:47:03Z")
My God… you’re a Genius™! ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/52 "2010-07-07T20:52:07Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Has Apple lost ground in the smartphone market? Or will they overcome these errors? I don’t think this kerfluffle about putting your finger in a certain spot is going to be that significant. By all accounts, in any other respect the new iPhone is much better than the old one. Many people I have talked to, iPhone owners, hadn’t even heard of the reception problem. And it seems easily fixed. I’m not a legal expert, but I cannot understand how a class-action lawsuit could even have a start in the courts if the product you purchased can be returned for a full refund (Apple is [waving the restocking fee](http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9178827/iPhone_4_antenna_woes_prompt_Apple_to_dump_return_fee) for iPhone 4 returns). In the long run, however, I agree with Lantern that Apple cannot continue its success with the iPhone indefinitely. They have to compete with companies like Google or Microsoft, who can design a new phone (the Kin) and then abandon it just a few weeks after launch, to work on something else, because they have huge amounts of resources and they can affort a misstep or two or three. (For example, how long did Microsoft produce the Xbox before they eventually recouped the amount of money they spend developing it? was it [about six years?](http://www.joystiq.com/2008/01/24/the-xbox-turns-a-profit/)) With Apple, one major mistake can really hurt them - they have to keep on hitting home runs. They can’t afford to put out a money-losing product for six years hoping that it will eventually become profitable. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/53 "2010-07-07T20:53:10Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > My God… you’re a Genius™! Yes, but it’s costing me a fortune in electrical tape to keep covering my laptop screen after a crash. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/54 "2010-07-08T01:12:18Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > I don’t think this kerfluffle about putting your finger in a certain spot is going to be that significant. By all accounts, in any other respect the new iPhone is much better than the old one. Many people I have talked to, iPhone owners, hadn’t even heard of the reception problem. And it seems easily fixed. > > I’m not a legal expert, but I cannot understand how a class-action lawsuit could even have a start in the courts if the product you purchased can be returned for a full refund (Apple is [waving the restocking fee](http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9178827/iPhone_4_antenna_woes_prompt_Apple_to_dump_return_fee) for iPhone 4 returns). > > In the long run, however, I agree with Lantern that Apple cannot continue its success with the iPhone indefinitely. They have to compete with companies like Google or Microsoft, who can design a new phone (the Kin) and then abandon it just a few weeks after launch, to work on something else, because they have huge amounts of resources and they can affort a misstep or two or three. (For example, how long did Microsoft produce the Xbox before they eventually recouped the amount of money they spend developing it? was it [about six years?](http://www.joystiq.com/2008/01/24/the-xbox-turns-a-profit/)) With Apple, one major mistake can really hurt them - they have to keep on hitting home runs. They can’t afford to put out a money-losing product for six years hoping that it will eventually become profitable. I think you need to poke your head out and take a look around - Apple has almost **[FORTY BILLION](http://www.businessweek.com/technology/ByteOfTheApple/blog/archives/2010/01/almost_40_billion_in_cash_what_is_apple_waiting_for.html)** dollars in cash. They can easily finance money-losing products like Microsoft does. They just prefer to finance money-making ones. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/55 "2010-07-08T01:40:38Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > As one wit in [CNN.com](http://CNN.com)’s user comments noted, modifying the OS to display fewer bars is a bit like fixing the “CHECK ENGINE” light in your car by covering it with a piece of black electrical tape. No, it’s like changing the car computer to always show the CHECK ENGINE light when the engine needs checking, instead of sometimes not showing it when it should. In what way does fixing the algorithm to show correct signal strength equate to using duct tape to hide a warning light? ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/56 "2010-07-08T01:48:22Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > I think you need to poke your head out and take a look around - Apple has almost **[FORTY BILLION](http://www.businessweek.com/technology/ByteOfTheApple/blog/archives/2010/01/almost_40_billion_in_cash_what_is_apple_waiting_for.html)** dollars in cash. They can easily finance money-losing products like Microsoft does. They just prefer to finance money-making ones. OK, I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t understand high finance, and Apple has passed Microsoft in market capitalization, and is doing very well. But Microsoft still has larger revenues and more profit, and these cash reserves are based on stock prices, which are fickle, aren’t they? I’m very happy that Apple is doing well, but I still fell that Microsoft’s foundation is more solid than Apple’s, and that they can afford to take more risks. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/57 "2010-07-08T02:03:58Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > OK, I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t understand high finance, and Apple has passed Microsoft in market capitalization, and is doing very well. But Microsoft still has larger revenues and more profit, and these cash reserves are based on stock prices, which are fickle, aren’t they? > I’m very happy that Apple is doing well, but I still fell that Microsoft’s foundation is more solid than Apple’s, and that they can afford to take more risks. > [@](#): > > Apple finished the quarter with $39.8 billion in cash and short-term investments So, this is not based on their stock valuation - it’s money in the bank, so to speak. Microsoft does have higher revenues, but not by that much. In fact, some analysts predict that Apple will beat Microsoft in revenue [soon](http://www.macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/apple_revenue_will_likely_top_microsoft_during_this_calendar_q2/). ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/58 "2010-07-08T13:59:20Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > No, it’s like changing the car computer to always show the CHECK ENGINE light when the engine needs checking, instead of sometimes not showing it when it should. In what way does fixing the algorithm to show correct signal strength equate to using duct tape to hide a warning light? In what way does fixing the algorithm to show correct\* signal strength solve the problem of low signal/dropped calls when touching part of the phone? - Assuming this is even true in the first place… it beggars belief that _ **nobody** _ at Apple, since the release of the very first iPhone model, realized until just now that the algorithm was faulty. Do they have a QA department? At best it suggests unbelievable incompetence, or worse, that they knew damn well it was exaggerating the signal and purposely left it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/59 "2010-07-08T14:02:29Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > OK, I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t understand high finance, and Apple has passed Microsoft in market capitalization, and is doing very well. But Microsoft still has larger revenues and more profit, and these cash reserves are based on stock prices, which are fickle, aren’t they? > I’m very happy that Apple is doing well, but I still fell that Microsoft’s foundation is more solid than Apple’s, and that they can afford to take more risks. Microsoft’s foundation is operating systems and software. Apple’s is hardware. They really aren’t direct competitors, even though several of their product lines are in direct competition. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350/60 "2010-07-08T14:34:55Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > In what way does fixing the algorithm to show correct\* signal strength solve the problem of low signal/dropped calls when touching part of the phone? > > - Assuming this is even true in the first place… it beggars belief that _ **nobody** _ at Apple, since the release of the very first iPhone model, realized until just now that the algorithm was faulty. Do they have a QA department? At best it suggests unbelievable incompetence, or worse, that they knew damn well it was exaggerating the signal and purposely left it that way. I think the issue is: what is a “correct” signal strength indicator? One might think that it would be a simple one-to-one linear relationship - 5 bars is 5x the signal strength of 1 bar. But, this really doesn’t make sense, since if the lowest bar is indicating enough signal to adequately place a call, then anything greater than that is irrelevant. So, there is a very non-linear scale applied. The smallest bar indicates a just barely adequate signal. Then, each successive bar is some increment more signal than that. This is where the hand-waving comes in - what should those bars represent? Twice the signal of the preceding bar? 1.1x as much? So, Apple’s “stunned” explanation may not be complete BS. If the signal strength indicator is essentially a pacifier, then they can make it follow any algorithm they want. AFAIK, no other handset manufacturer has documented what their bars indicate - they could all be understating the actual signal strength, which makes the phone look good at the expense of the cell service provider. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-apple-misstepped-badly-with-the-iphone-4/545350.md?page=4)