# Has authoritarianism ever done better than democracy? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2023, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-authoritarianism-ever-done-better-than-democracy/979899 "2023-02-16T16:33:50Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 8\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-authoritarianism-ever-done-better-than-democracy/979899/123 "2023-08-02T22:25:41Z")
China and Vietnam, two of the largest **Communist** countries, average annual income is $8,400 Bangladesh, Russia, Ethiopia, and Egypt are the four largest **dictatorships** , average annual income is $5,200 The seven largest **democracies** (including “flawed democracies” - India, Brazil, Japan, Mexico and Phillipines) and the US and Indonesia, average annual income is $21,000. The “flawed democracies” avg. is $13,400, bringing the overall avg. down. ^Flawed democracies are defined as countries with free and open elections and normal recognition of citizen rights and liberties, but may supress media and political opposition and critics. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2023, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-authoritarianism-ever-done-better-than-democracy/979899/124 "2023-08-02T22:39:34Z")
That is not what I asked. Give us an example of a “free market economy”. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2023, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-authoritarianism-ever-done-better-than-democracy/979899/125 "2023-08-03T15:32:02Z")
Your question was confusing at best. > **[Country Rankings: World & Global Economy Rankings on Economic Freedom](https://www.heritage.org/index/ranking)** > > Country rankings based on economic freedom. World and global economy rankings from the Index of Economic Freedom are published by The Heritage Foundation. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2023, 6:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-authoritarianism-ever-done-better-than-democracy/979899/126 "2023-08-03T18:04:19Z")
My point is that “free market economy” is an oxymoron. In a totally free market, some parties become significantly wealthier than others. The thing people do with significant wealth is to use it to gain influence over the system, in order to protect their wealth.        This is normal and essentially inescapable, because wealth creates an insulating effect that sepsrates the wealthy from those dirty peasants. It reduces the wealthy individuals’ reasoning capacity by obfuscating real life from them: wealth literally makes people stupid.        So you institute a free market economy andit might start out ok, but it leads to oligarchy/plutocracy (at least, that seems to be the case, as we have no data on free market economies starting from scratch).        Unless you start from absolute anarchy, there have to be some controls on the market for it to function rasonably. If you leave the wealth ceiling uncapped, you _are_ going to end up with not a free market economy, because significant wealth, passing mere comfort, is about gaining control over other people.        “Free market economy” is just neoliberal twaddle that sounds so good on the face of it but obscures an underlying lack of pragmatism, or even outright deceit. ---
**Author:** ![PhillyGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ed655f/32.png) [@PhillyGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PhillyGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2023, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-authoritarianism-ever-done-better-than-democracy/979899/127 "2023-08-03T18:28:43Z")
> [@eschereal](#): > > My point is that “free market economy” is an oxymoron. In a totally free market, some parties become significantly wealthier than others. Some parties becoming wealthier than others is close to universal for human societies. Certainty it is universal for societies that we internet posters live in. While Omar\_Little’s link is to a rather far right organization (Heritage Foundation), and some of their rankings can be questioned (Italy less free than Guatemala?). But they measures on a dozen different factors that can with a little work be disaggregated. The Heritage Society picture, in terms of this thread, is that there is a strong correlation between freedom to form and maintain private businesses, and democracy – but the correlation isn’t perfect. The biggest outlier, previously mentioned, may be Singapore, [which really does have major democratic deficits.](https://freedomhouse.org/country/singapore/freedom-world/2021) ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 4, 2023, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-authoritarianism-ever-done-better-than-democracy/979899/128 "2023-08-04T03:04:34Z")
> [@PhillyGuy](#): > > Omar\_Little’s link is to a rather far right organization > [@Heritage – What is Economic Freedom](#): > > Economic freedom is the fundamental right of every human to control his or her own labor and property. In an economically free society, individuals are free to work, produce, consume, and invest in any way they please. In economically free societies, governments allow labor, capital, and goods to move freely, and refrain from coercion or constraint of liberty beyond the extent necessary to protect and maintain liberty itself. That sounds pretty good, other than the fact that it is utter nonsense. ---
**Author:** ![Omar\_Little](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/omar_little/32/269_2.png) [@Omar\_Little](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Omar_Little)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2023, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-authoritarianism-ever-done-better-than-democracy/979899/129 "2023-08-09T18:01:00Z")
So if the median income of a democratic society is 3x that of an authortiarian society, that is not an indication of having “done better”? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [August 14, 2023, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-authoritarianism-ever-done-better-than-democracy/979899/130 "2023-08-14T00:17:26Z")
I will let you have that, on the basic principle that statistics always provide a complete and accurate picture of what is going on in society and are never manipulated. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-authoritarianism-ever-done-better-than-democracy/979899.md?page=6)