# Has Christianity incited more terrorism than Islam? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 2, 2003, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-christianity-incited-more-terrorism-than-islam/210979 "2003-11-02T13:48:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-christianity-incited-more-terrorism-than-islam/210979/41 "2003-11-03T00:15:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pervert \* > \*\* > Well, Unless I misinterpret everything, that’s exactly what the Crusades and Inquisition were about. Specifically state sponcered persecution (to the point of death in many cases) of Jews and Muslims. Who, BTW profess belief in the same god as the christians. \*\* Yes, you are missing the point. As I said, while the Crusades were truly horrific, they absolutely pale in comparison to the killings conducted by Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and their ilk. **Soapbox Monkey** specifically said, “If you were to look at the big picture of history, the Holy Roman Catholic church is the most evil and sinister establishment of all time.” I’m sorry, but that’s not even remotely true. Such a statement betrays a horrible limited view of history – _recent_ history, even. I suggest that you get a copy of the _Guiness Book of World Records_. Look up “Mass murderers.” As I said, while many did die as a result of the Crusades, they don’t even begin to compare to the millions that were killed under the aforementioned atheistic regimes. ---
**Author:** ![pervert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbe5ce/32.png) [@pervert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pervert)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-christianity-incited-more-terrorism-than-islam/210979/42 "2003-11-03T00:59:10Z")
Yes I know that many comunist state have perpetrated mass murders. I was not trying to defend them. I’m just not sure about the numbers. I agree that if you count bodies the genocides of the 20th century are clearly larger than those of earlier centuries. However, I’m not so sure about the ratings if they are taken in terms of percentages of populations. In addition, I disagree with your characterization that these regimes might have committed their henious acts because they are athiestic. My examples were meant to indicate that theists kill theists as well. Finally, I may be mistaken, but I don’t think the killing of theists under these regimes were done for “the cause of atheism”. The regimes you mentioned were all bent on building societies completely dominated by themselves. They were willing to kill as many people as necessary to do this. They did not kill theists out of some hatred for god, or desire to make the world athiest. They killed them simply for acknowledging any power other than the state. [BTW This is a very interesting site which contains comparisons of all sorts of genocidial actions by all sorts of governments. He calls them “Democide”.](http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/) ---
**Author:** ![Soup\_du\_jour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Soup\_du\_jour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_du_jour)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-christianity-incited-more-terrorism-than-islam/210979/43 "2003-11-03T01:07:39Z")
> [@](#): > > From Aldebaran > **So can you explain why I constantly hear and read about “terrorist nations”…** If you want my opinion, it’s because the US leaders you hear about are flat out wrong, and are misrepresenting the truth. ---
**Author:** ![pervert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbe5ce/32.png) [@pervert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pervert)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-christianity-incited-more-terrorism-than-islam/210979/44 "2003-11-03T01:18:55Z")
No, its because some states are actively sponsering terrorist groups inside OTHER countries. These states can be said to give aide and comfort to terrorists, or the relationship can be described as them being “terrorist states”. Unless you can cite an example of someone using it in another context, I think it simply refers to governments which use terrorist groups as a tool in international diplomacy. ---
**Author:** ![Soup\_du\_jour](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Soup\_du\_jour](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soup_du_jour)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-christianity-incited-more-terrorism-than-islam/210979/45 "2003-11-03T01:21:10Z")
Well, I was partly referring to Mr Bush’s repeated assertions that Mr Hussein “spread Terror through his people,” “ruled through Terror,” and so on. Granted, he didn’t come right out and say it, but that’s what he implied. (I doubt he was attempting a reference to the Palestinian Suicide Bombers Hussin was subsidizing.) Though I could be wrong on all points. ---
**Author:** ![Buran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@Buran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buran)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-christianity-incited-more-terrorism-than-islam/210979/46 "2003-11-03T01:44:29Z")
I’m surprised people are having difficulty finding examples of modern Christian terrorism. While I continuely fight a losing battle trying to convince people that it isn’t a war about religion (its political) we’ve had nominal Christians engaging in acts that are as bad (in intensity, if not in scale) as anything in the middle east for the past thirty years. Northern Ireland… ---
**Author:** ![capacitor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e47774/32.png) [@capacitor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/capacitor)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 2:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-christianity-incited-more-terrorism-than-islam/210979/47 "2003-11-03T02:00:43Z")
JThunder, the Crusades lasted off and on for about 300 years. And some believe that Bush, denial aside, renewed it today. ---
**Author:** ![Svt4Him](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@Svt4Him](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Svt4Him)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-christianity-incited-more-terrorism-than-islam/210979/48 "2003-11-03T02:09:04Z")
It is true that man has used religion for political gain. Nazi Germany had “God with us” engraved in German on the belts of Nazi soldiers. America said, “Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.” The law may even allow you to start the Christian Nazi Party, if you so desire. You can become a “reverend” for a few dollars through the tabloid classifieds and then further your political agenda with the world’s blessing, no matter how much it smears the name of Christ. Jesus tells us in John 16:2,3 that there will be some who, in their error, commit atrocities and murder in the name of God: “The time is coming that whosoever kills you will think that he does God service.” However, He informs us that these are not true believers: “And these things will they do to you, because they have not known the Father, nor me.” (See also 1 John 3:15.) Jesus told His followers to love their enemies. So if a man puts a knife into someone’s back in the name of Christianity, something obviously isn’t right. If we human beings can detect it, how much more will God? He will deal with it on Judgment Day." I know that the Lord is always on the side of right. But it is my constant anxiety and prayer that I—and this nation—should be on the Lord’s side." Abraham Lincoln ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-christianity-incited-more-terrorism-than-islam/210979/49 "2003-11-03T02:22:53Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pervert \* > \*\*Yes I know that many comunist state have perpetrated mass murders. I was not trying to defend them. I’m just not sure about the numbers. \*\* As I said, get a copy of the _Guiness Book of World Records_. > [@](#): > > \*\* > In addition, I disagree with your characterization that these regimes might have committed their henious acts because they are athiestic. My examples were meant to indicate that theists kill theists as well.\*\* First of all, what I **actually** said is that these killings were performed by atheistic regimes. This is quite a bit different from saying that they were committed because they were atheistic. See the difference? Additionally, at least _some_ of these killings were done because the victims refused to abandon religion. In that respect, they were certainly motivated by a desire to enforce atheism. I won’t claim that all (or even most) of these killings were motivated by such, as that would not be accurate. > [@](#): > > \*\* > Finally, I may be mistaken, but I don’t think the killing of theists under these regimes were done for “the cause of atheism”. \*\* I already addressed this. I said that they were done specifically for “the cause of atheism.” What I said is that they were done by atheistic governments, as opposed to religious ones. Moreover, even if you deny that, the point remains. The Catholic Church is most certainly **not** the most evil institution in history – not by a long shot. Nobody with a healthy knowledge of world history would even make that claim. (I’m not Catholic, mind you. I’m merely pointing out the facts. If you can produce a history book which proves me wrong, then by all means, do so.) ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-christianity-incited-more-terrorism-than-islam/210979/50 "2003-11-03T02:31:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by capacitor \* > \*\*JThunder, the Crusades lasted off and on for about 300 years. \*\* And how is this relevant? It seems to me that the sheer number of atrocities is a far more relevant indicator than the duration thereof – especially since, as you yourself said, the Crusades were performed “on an d off.” > [@](#): > > \*\* > And some believe that Bush, denial aside, renewed it today. \*\* And those people have no idea what they’re talking about. Either that, or they’re being deliberately facetious. ---
**Author:** ![laigle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ce7236/32.png) [@laigle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/laigle)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-christianity-incited-more-terrorism-than-islam/210979/51 "2003-11-03T02:37:39Z")
A question that will probably get me yelled at: How many people have been killed by terrorism anyways? Tens of thousands? A couple hundred thousand? Over how many decades now? It just seems to me like this issue gets played up like the Apocalypse when it really amounts to what you’d see from middling level warfare over the same time period. It just doesn’t strike me as comparable to, for instance, WWII. And we survived that fine as a species. ---
**Author:** ![Brutus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/91b2a8/32.png) [@Brutus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brutus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-christianity-incited-more-terrorism-than-islam/210979/52 "2003-11-03T02:40:38Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Midwinter \* > \*\*I’m surprised people are having difficulty finding examples of modern Christian terrorism. > > While I continuely fight a losing battle trying to convince people that it isn’t a war about religion (its political) we’ve had nominal Christians engaging in acts that are as bad (in intensity, if not in scale) as anything in the middle east for the past thirty years. > > Northern Ireland… \*\* How many civilians have been killed by terrorism in N.Ireland? ---
**Author:** ![pervert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbe5ce/32.png) [@pervert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pervert)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-christianity-incited-more-terrorism-than-islam/210979/53 "2003-11-03T05:14:49Z")
JThunder, I appologize if I sounded rude in my earlier posts. I did not mean to be. I don’t think we are really that far apart on this issue. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JThunder \* > **The Catholic Church is most certainly not the most evil institution in history – not by a long shot. Nobody with a healthy knowledge of world history would even make that claim.** I understand that they may not be the _most_ evil institution. I used to think so myself. I have since gotten over it. I would say, though, that “not by a long shot” depends on how you measure such things. I think the numbers killed may be a measure of the tools available more than the intentions. I would point you to the link I posted earlier. It contains much more information than the world record book. And I would argue that you can include many other things besides people killed to measure something as abstract as “most evil”. And if you consider that the catholic church may be the most long lived institution alive today, it may have to be placed somewhere on the list simply by virtue of that. That is, anytime you list the evil things that have happened in the las 2000 years, you will invariably find the catholic church involved in some of them. Anyway, this is enough of a hijack. So I’ll let you have the last word if you want. ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 5:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-christianity-incited-more-terrorism-than-islam/210979/54 "2003-11-03T05:29:15Z")
No offense, but I think you still haven’t adequately substantiated your claims regarding the Catholic church (and I’m not Catholic by any stretch of the imagination!). You say “Anytime you list the evil things that have happened in the last 2000 years, you will invariably find the Catholic church involved in **some** of them” (Emphasis added). Pardon me, but while that’s doubtlessly true, it doesn’t really prove much does it? Of course the church has been involved in **some** of these atrocities! For the sake of argument, let us grant that the Catholic church is the “most long-lived institution alive today.” (I think that’s obviously false, but let’s grant it for now.) How does this reflect at all on its relative evilness? In fact, the phrasing of your claim is instructive: “It **may** have to be placed somewhere on the list by virtue of that.” _ **May** _ have to be placed in the list of most evil institutions? Such vague claims amount to nothing more than aimless speculation! ---
**Author:** ![flycow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/278dde/32.png) [@flycow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flycow)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 8:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-christianity-incited-more-terrorism-than-islam/210979/55 "2003-11-03T08:03:23Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by pervert \* > \*\*No, its because some states are actively sponsering terrorist groups inside OTHER countries. These states can be said to give aide and comfort to terrorists, or the relationship can be described as them being “terrorist states”. > > \*\* You mean like the US sponsoring militia inside Nicaragua to pick just one of too many examples? agreed!!! ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-christianity-incited-more-terrorism-than-islam/210979/56 "2003-11-03T12:50:12Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by JThunder \* > \*\*Yes, you are missing the point. As I said, while the Crusades were truly horrific, they absolutely pale in comparison to the killings conducted by Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and their ilk. > > **Soapbox Monkey** specifically said, “If you were to look at the big picture of history, the Holy Roman Catholic church is the most evil and sinister establishment of all time.” I’m sorry, but that’s not even remotely true. Such a statement betrays a horrible limited view of history – _recent_ history, even. > \*\* But the communists never claimed to be doing “God’s work.” ---
**Author:** ![Soapbox\_Monkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ed655f/32.png) [@Soapbox\_Monkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Soapbox_Monkey)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-christianity-incited-more-terrorism-than-islam/210979/57 "2003-11-03T12:57:07Z")
Oh, and if the Crusades and Inquisition aren’t enough, how about the fact that the church still keeps millions of people under spiritual chains? I used to be Christian. By used to, I mean I was made to. My parents followed the baptism pledge of “we will ensure that our son is brought up Christian.” People ask how can Christianity be wrong if there are so many believers? Simple. It’s all those people ever know. Some churchs and and parents work so hard to drive the fear of God into their children that the people never so much as question their religion growing up. Hence you have a new Christian for life, not by choice, but out of fear. It’s truly repulsive. I was lucky enough to break free before it was too late. (I’m 19) ---
**Author:** ![Buran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/a88e57/32.png) [@Buran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buran)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-christianity-incited-more-terrorism-than-islam/210979/58 "2003-11-03T13:23:08Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Brutus \* > **How many civilians have been killed by terrorism in N.Ireland?** At a guess…around 3700. Doesn’t sound like much when you think of 2000+ killed in a single action like September 11th or the terrible wars in Africa but NI only has a population of around 1 1/2 million. And thats not counting the injured. I read somewhere that as a percentage of the population the troubles were fought at a greater intensity than the Vietnam war. But something thats not mentioned much is the effects such a prolonged conflict has on the populations mentality. I remember as a child turning on the TV for the morning news to hear that another policeman had been killed in a booby trap car bomb only to turn the channel to something more “interesting” I didn’t realise such things weren’t “normal” A friend, an Israeli, gave me an analogy that I thought was apt. Israel and Northern Ireland are like long grey drizzling rain day by day, September 11th was like a sudden thunderclap out of clear blue sky. ---
**Author:** ![JS\_Princeton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/57b2e6/32.png) [@JS\_Princeton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JS_Princeton)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-christianity-incited-more-terrorism-than-islam/210979/59 "2003-11-03T15:58:10Z")
It seems clear to me that religion has very little to do with the conditions that create terrorism, except that there are those trolls who incite institutional injustice and violence based on their ignorance and propaganda. It seems that one troll, in particular, in this thread might be prone to taking up a terroristic cause from the Christian side of the argument. Since there are people of all creeds and beliefs who commit what would be deemed as terroristic acts, I think that to tie in religion with those actions is problematic. However, religious imagery is a popular metaphor used by those perpetrating terrorism. Let me make a rather bold suggestion: could it be that religious imagery lends itself to use by terrorists because it is appealing to the same emotions to which those who justify terrorism are trying to appeal? ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2003, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-christianity-incited-more-terrorism-than-islam/210979/60 "2003-11-03T16:12:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Soapbox Monkey \* > \*\*But the communists never claimed to be doing “God’s work.” \*\* Again, irrelevant. The question is which institution has been the most evil, not whether they claimed to be doing God’s work. If you’re going to condemn the RCC on the grounds that they claimed to do God’s work, then you’ll have to condemn Stalin, Lenin, Mao and company for allegedly working for the people’s liberation. You’re the one who claims that the Roman Catholic Church was the most evil institution in all of history. Even I, a decidedly anti-Catholic individual, can see that you haven’t provided anything close to an adequate defense of that claim. > [@](#): > > \*\* Oh, and if the Crusades and Inquisition aren’t enough, how about the fact that the church still keeps millions of people under spiritual chains?\*\* :rolleyes: Boy, talk about loaded language. By that standard, one could allege that Lein and company kept millions of people under _political_ and _economic_ chains – a decidedly more objective and more easily substantiated argument. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-christianity-incited-more-terrorism-than-islam/210979.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-christianity-incited-more-terrorism-than-islam/210979.md?page=4)