# Has Donald Trump's election been followed by a wave of hate crimes? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 29, 2016, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-donald-trumps-election-been-followed-by-a-wave-of-hate-crimes/775872 "2016-12-29T23:28:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 5:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-donald-trumps-election-been-followed-by-a-wave-of-hate-crimes/775872/61 "2017-01-05T17:40:46Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The issue is that there seems to be a lot more hesitance in declaring apparently-racist crimes by blacks against whites to be racially motivated, as compared to the converse. > > And the suspicion - or at least mine - is that this is politically motivated. There are many people who are strongly committed to a worldview in which white racism against blacks is very common and a Huge Deal, while black racism against whites is extremely uncommon and/or not a big issue. So there’s a strong motivation for such people to play up any ostensible racism against blacks and downplay ostensible racism by blacks against whites. Is there any possibility that many people are committed to this worldview because it’s correct? In this case, everyone **except** the police is saying this is probably a hate crime. It seems so open-and-shut a hate crime that the police’s reticence is surprising. Are you absolutely convinced that it’s a hate crime, or are you also hesitant to declare your opinion better-informed and more accurate than the police’s? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-donald-trumps-election-been-followed-by-a-wave-of-hate-crimes/775872/62 "2017-01-05T17:41:01Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The issue is that there seems to be a lot more hesitance in declaring apparently-racist crimes by blacks against whites to be racially motivated, as compared to the converse. > > And the suspicion - or at least mine - is that this is politically motivated. There are many people who are strongly committed to a worldview in which white racism against blacks is very common and a Huge Deal, while black racism against whites is extremely uncommon and/or not a big issue. So there’s a strong motivation for such people to play up any ostensible racism against blacks and downplay ostensible racism by blacks against whites. The victim in this instance reportedly knew one of his attackers from school, who used that association to lure him into being held hostage and tortured for two days. That speaks of something else entirely. As the linked AP report says: “Investigators will have to determine whether the racial remarks were ‘sincere or just stupid ranting and raving’ when considering a potential hate crime charge.” ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-donald-trumps-election-been-followed-by-a-wave-of-hate-crimes/775872/63 "2017-01-05T17:45:39Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The issue is that there seems to be a lot more hesitance in declaring apparently-racist crimes by blacks against whites to be racially motivated, as compared to the converse. > > And the suspicion - or at least mine - is that this is politically motivated. There are many people who are strongly committed to a worldview in which white racism against blacks is very common and a Huge Deal, while black racism against whites is extremely uncommon and/or not a big issue. So there’s a strong motivation for such people to play up any ostensible racism against blacks and downplay ostensible racism by blacks against whites. > > [The fact that a major national organization like the SPLC is tracking incidents of kids being called racial epithets is otherwise astonishing, but consistent with the above.] Didn’t seem too hesitant to me. It was in the news, on all media, and was posted to this website early enough that this is where I heard of it first. Now, I will admit to feeling disappointed that those who are nominally “on my side” would engage in such behavior, and I would like to know more about the situation before either condemning or defending their actions (though at this point, with what I know, it is unlikely that I would be defending them, if the alleged incident took place in anything like the story as described, I feel comfortable condemning in no uncertain terms, my only terms right now is that I would like to hear more of the circumstances first.) Now, if you look at some of the other threads, like controversial encounters, or stupid rep idea of the day, for instance, whenever an incident is posted, there are many who flock to defend the police or republican, without actually having all the facts yet. The reason this story seems quiet is because there is no one defending their actions. It is hard to get all that much traffic out of, “Those guys are fucked up!”…“Yes. Yes they are.” ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-donald-trumps-election-been-followed-by-a-wave-of-hate-crimes/775872/64 "2017-01-05T17:51:34Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Is there any possibility that many people are committed to this worldview because it’s correct? Things are not always so simple. Sometimes things have some truth to them but can be greatly exaggerated. > [@](#): > > In this case, everyone **except** the police is saying this is probably a hate crime. It seems so open-and-shut a hate crime that the police’s reticence is surprising. Are you absolutely convinced that it’s a hate crime, or are you also hesitant to declare your opinion better-informed and more accurate than the police’s? Same applies here. It’s not uncommon for people to do things for a variety of reasons. It’s very possible that the perpetrators had other motives as well, e.g. extortion or they may have just been sadists. But if they were shouting anti-white/Trump statements, then it’s likely that there was some element of racism involved as well. So it’s most likely that what’s happening is that the police are not inclined to declare the crime racially motivated unless racism was the primary or sole motivator, rather than having some reason to believe that there was no racial angle at all. But I don’t think that’s a standard they would apply to white-on-black crime. Could be wrong, and I’m certainly willing to keep an open mind and hear what they have to say. But at this time my best guess - based on this and many other such instances - is that their reticence is based on the above or something similar. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-donald-trumps-election-been-followed-by-a-wave-of-hate-crimes/775872/65 "2017-01-05T17:53:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I think this is likely “politically” motivated as well (politics is a very broad category), but I think the reasoning for political motivation is generally reasonable – there is a huge and massive history in the US, even in recent decades, of anti-black brutality being an enormous influence on daily life for large numbers of black people, and no history of anti-white brutality being a significant influence on any more than a tiny number of white people’s daily lives. Just as we might perk up and be a little more suspicious, for valid reasons, for example, of vandalism of a synagogue vice a Catholic church in Germany. Or maybe they’re little more than four stupid teens who wanted to be famous, no matter how. ---
**Author:** ![Donpeyote](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a4c791/32.png) [@Donpeyote](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donpeyote)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-donald-trumps-election-been-followed-by-a-wave-of-hate-crimes/775872/66 "2017-01-05T17:57:41Z")
Stupid Racist Teens , and everything is political these days … ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-donald-trumps-election-been-followed-by-a-wave-of-hate-crimes/775872/67 "2017-01-05T18:03:54Z")
[Except when it’s not.](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/religion/arrest-in-vote-trump-burning-of-mississippi-black-church/2016/12/21/b3641010-c7bd-11e6-acda-59924caa2450_story.html?utm_term=.d3170038ea93) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-donald-trumps-election-been-followed-by-a-wave-of-hate-crimes/775872/68 "2017-01-05T19:02:27Z")
[Kids (and some young adults) today want to be famous more than anything else.](https://www.consumeraffairs.com/news/why-are-young-people-so-obsessed-with-becoming-famous-012113.html) Surely, for some it doesn’t matter how they get there. ---
**Author:** ![Drunky\_Smurf](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drunky_smurf/32/449_2.png) [@Drunky\_Smurf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Drunky_Smurf)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-donald-trumps-election-been-followed-by-a-wave-of-hate-crimes/775872/69 "2017-01-05T19:41:00Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Again: no. The police are not. I find that very surprising, but I believe the proper response is to examine their reasons for doubting its hate crime status, instead of shouting extra loudly that it is. > > It very well may be that they’ll decide it’s a hate crime after all; it very well may be that they decide it’s not, and that I’ll disagree. What’s not in doubt is that the torture itself was a serious crime and should be treated as such. > > It would be ridiculous to insist that all lay people agree it’s a hate crime now, when the police themselves (hardly inclined to be lenient on young black people) make no such claim. They’re making that claim now. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/01/05/4-in-custody-after-group-beats-disabled-man-on-facebook-live-while-shouting-anti-trump-profanities-chicago-police-say/?utm\_term=.3fd77fa07349](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/01/05/4-in-custody-after-group-beats-disabled-man-on-facebook-live-while-shouting-anti-trump-profanities-chicago-police-say/?utm_term=.3fd77fa07349) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-donald-trumps-election-been-followed-by-a-wave-of-hate-crimes/775872/70 "2017-01-05T20:47:49Z")
Still doesn’t necessarily involve race. [As of 2009](https://www.justice.gov/crt/matthew-shepard-and-james-byrd-jr-hate-crimes-prevention-act-2009-0), the fact that the victim is disabled means the attack can be considered a hate crime. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-donald-trumps-election-been-followed-by-a-wave-of-hate-crimes/775872/71 "2017-01-05T21:05:42Z")
Can’t find links yet but AP Radio News just said the victim has been talking and he painted the incident as horseplay that got very out of hand. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-donald-trumps-election-been-followed-by-a-wave-of-hate-crimes/775872/72 "2017-01-05T21:05:49Z")
> [@Drunky\_Smurf](#): > > They’re making that claim now. > > [https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/01/05/4-in-custody-after-group-beats-disabled-man-on-facebook-live-while-shouting-anti-trump-profanities-chicago-police-say/?utm\_term=.3fd77fa07349](https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/01/05/4-in-custody-after-group-beats-disabled-man-on-facebook-live-while-shouting-anti-trump-profanities-chicago-police-say/?utm_term=.3fd77fa07349) Thanks. I was surprised at their reticence, but it sounds like they wanted to be sure, and I’m glad they did due diligence first. The claim that they wouldn’t have done due diligence if races were reversed is some weak sauce, looking-for-an-argument kind of argumentation in my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [January 5, 2017, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-donald-trumps-election-been-followed-by-a-wave-of-hate-crimes/775872/73 "2017-01-05T21:29:10Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Can’t find links yet but AP Radio News just said the victim has been talking and he painted the incident as horseplay that got very out of hand. [Here we go](http://abc7chicago.com/news/hate-crime-charges-filed-against-4-in-facebook-live-torture-case/1687517/): > [@](#): > > Investigators said the victim told them he got into a “play fight” with Hill that escalated when two of Hill’s acquaintances, the Covington sisters, became aggravated with him. Investigators said that is when the victim was tied up and the battery began. Also of note are the rest of that paragraph and the following one: > [@](#): > > Police said the victim was left tied up in the corner for four to five hours. Streamwood police victim’s parents told officers they had received text messages from people who claimed to be holding him captive. > > When a downstairs neighbor complained about the noise and threatened to call 911, police said the Covington sisters kicked in her door and stole something. That prompted to the neighbor to call police and gave the victim the opportunity to escape. Two paragraphs later are the reasons for the hate crime charges: > [@](#): > > Investigators said they decided to pursue hate crime charges considering the “totality” of the victim’s diminished mental capacity, the fact that he was bound, and racist statements made on video. Given the Hate Crimes Act of 2009, they’d likely have been facing those charges even without any racist statements. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-donald-trumps-election-been-followed-by-a-wave-of-hate-crimes/775872.md?page=3)