# Has England Gone 100% Metric? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 30, 2016, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456 "2016-08-30T03:06:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/21 "2016-08-30T18:24:17Z")
Did England go through any time period of trying to switch to kilometers like the USA did in the 70s? I ask because I was recently on a hike in England and the vast majority of signs both on the roads and on the trail were in miles, in fact, most often did not even state the units because it was taken as a given that they were in miles. However, I _seem_ to remember one sign marked in kilometers. Perhaps it was a remnant of a conversion attempt that was never replaced? ---
**Author:** ![awldune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@awldune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/awldune)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/22 "2016-08-30T18:53:51Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > Here’s my question: Why did the large bottles go metric, yet the small ones didn’t? And why did the large bottles stay metric even when it became obvious that the USA was not going to give up their quarts and pounds? No idea about the large bottles, but it is fairly common to encounter 350ml and 500ml plastic bottles where I live in the southeastern US. These seem to coexist with their imperial counterparts, for example you might find a six-pack of 500ml Coke bottles in a grocery store and a 16 oz Coke bottle in a gas station in the same town. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/23 "2016-08-30T19:18:17Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Did England go through any time period of trying to switch to kilometers like the USA did in the 70s? I ask because I was recently on a hike in England and the vast majority of signs both on the roads and on the trail were in miles, in fact, most often did not even state the units because it was taken as a given that they were in miles. However, I _seem_ to remember one sign marked in kilometers. Perhaps it was a remnant of a conversion attempt that was never replaced? There were a bunch of plans back in the 70s and 80s that were designed to convert everything to metric (around about the same time, they started designing road junctions in such way that they would still work properly if we switched to driving on the right. Both ideas have been abandoned, I think. I’m not aware of any surviving official road signs marked in km - if I had to guess at a place where they might exist, I’d shoot for Milton Keynes - that place is weird in a very conspicuously trying-to-be-progressive sense. You didn’t visit Ireland before or after your trip to England, did you? Their signs are metric. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/24 "2016-08-30T19:31:23Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Canada is the least metric of the metric countries. Most products are labelled in metric, but the quantities are clearly on the pre-metric system: butter is sold in 454g packages, for example. Everything at Home Depot is in the Imperial system, because we’re so interconnected with the US supply chain. From my experience, as rough approximations, I’d say the US is about 10% metric and Canada is about 60%, and the UK is about 80%. The US does not use Imperial units. For example, 1 US customary pint = 16 fluid ounces, and 1 Imperial pint = 20 fluid ounces. And the ounces used are completely different: respectively 29.57 and 28.41 ml. Many measurements are otherwise identical. I think Canadian units are based on Imperial? Wikipedia suggests bottled Canadian beer is sometimes 12 Imp oz/341 ml. > [@awldune](#): > > No idea about the large bottles, but it is fairly common to encounter 350ml and 500ml plastic bottles where I live in the southeastern US. These seem to coexist with their imperial counterparts, for example you might find a six-pack of 500ml Coke bottles in a grocery store and a 16 oz Coke bottle in a gas station in the same town. US liquids are all over the place: Beer comes in 12 oz., 22 oz., and 750 ml containers. Alcohol comes in 375, 750 ml (but often referenced as a fifth (of an approximate gallon, really ~757 ml)) and 1.5 L. Soda comes in 12 and 8 (?) oz. cans, 20 oz. 1 L, 2 L, and sometimes 3 L bottles. ---
**Author:** ![Mk\_VII](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Mk\_VII](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mk_VII)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/25 "2016-08-30T19:49:59Z")
It’s not legal to post any road signs in metric measures (including temporary ones for road works, or height restrictions etc.) Metric-only speedometers on cars are also not legal, except for temporary visiting vehicles. ---
**Author:** ![Bones\_Daley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@Bones\_Daley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bones_Daley)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/26 "2016-08-30T20:27:00Z")
> [@Mk\_VII](#): > > It’s not legal to post any road signs in metric measures (including temporary ones for road works, or \*\*height restrictions \*\*etc.) Metric-only speedometers on cars are also not legal, except for temporary visiting vehicles. from [http://www.ukma.org.uk/restriction-signs-mess](http://www.ukma.org.uk/restriction-signs-mess) … \*\*New official regulations came into force on 22 April 2016 that required both metric and imperial units to be used to show width, height and weight restrictions. For width and height signs, both imperial and metric units must be shown on the same sign. For length signs, an imperial sign and a metric sign must be shown together. However, existing imperial-only signs, which were installed before 22 April 2016, can remain in place until they become life-expired or are replaced for any reason. These old restriction signs are out of step with modern industry practices. \*\* ---
**Author:** ![iljitsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@iljitsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iljitsch)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/27 "2016-08-30T20:49:59Z")
Like I was saying to a pro-brexiter that I talked to last week: it would be a nice goodbye present for the EU to force the UK to adopt road signs in kilometers right before the UK leaves the EU. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/28 "2016-08-30T22:34:24Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > The US does not use Imperial units. For example, 1 US customary pint = 16 fluid ounces, and 1 Imperial pint = 20 fluid ounces. And the ounces used are completely different: respectively 29.57 and 28.41 ml. Many measurements are otherwise identical. I think Canadian units are based on Imperial? Wikipedia suggests bottled Canadian beer is sometimes 12 Imp oz/341 ml. Canadian units are, yes, but if the products are made for the North American market (in other words, US goods shipped north of the border), they don’t bother to measure them separately. A locally-bottled 12-oz. product is 341 ml, but there are a lot of 355 ml 12-oz. products on the shelves,too. But you’re right, I was lazily using “Imperial” as a shorthand for “not metric,” thinking more of the ⅛-inch screws at Home Depot. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/29 "2016-08-30T22:43:30Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > Did England go through any time period of trying to switch to kilometers like the USA did in the 70s? I ask because I was recently on a hike in England and the vast majority of signs both on the roads and on the trail were in miles, in fact, most often did not even state the units because it was taken as a given that they were in miles. However, I _seem_ to remember one sign marked in kilometers. Perhaps it was a remnant of a conversion attempt that was never replaced? While road signs were never metric, some councils decided that they had to sign footpaths in kilometres. I have also seen metric roadworks signs like “NO FOOTPATH FOR 100 METRES”. Bridge heights are normally signed in Imperial if they are less than 16’. Some are also signed in metric for the benefit of foreign truck drivers. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 30, 2016, 11:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/30 "2016-08-30T23:24:18Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > I’m not aware of any surviving official road signs marked in km - if I had to guess at a place where they might exist, I’d shoot for Milton Keynes - that place is weird in a very conspicuously trying-to-be-progressive sense. > > You didn’t visit Ireland before or after your trip to England, did you? Their signs are metric. Never been to Ireland. This was a footpath sign on the Cotswold Way. ---
**Author:** ![Urbanredneck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ea5d25/32.png) [@Urbanredneck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urbanredneck)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/31 "2016-08-31T01:01:30Z")
At least the UK dropped their weird currency back in the 70’s. ---
**Author:** ![notfrommensa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f14d63/32.png) [@notfrommensa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/notfrommensa)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/32 "2016-08-31T02:12:06Z")
This UK website indicates that land is measured in acres (drop down menu). > **[Farms for sale | properties with land for sale - UK Land & Farms](https://www.uklandandfarms.co.uk/)** > > Farms, land and equestrian properties for sale, country properties with land for sale, woodland and horticultural property for sale - search rural properties… ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/33 "2016-08-31T02:43:12Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > Canada is the least metric of the metric countries. Most products are labelled in metric, but the quantities are clearly on the pre-metric system: butter is sold in 454g packages, for example. Everything at Home Depot is in the Imperial system, because we’re so interconnected with the US supply chain. From my experience, as rough approximations, I’d say the US is about 10% metric and Canada is about 60%, and the UK is about 80%. > > I’ve told this story here before, but I tried ordering half a kilo of lunchmeat in a Canadian supermarket once, and they didn’t understand until I rephrased it as “500 grams” (the pricing is per 100g.) That suggests a pretty poor understanding of the metric system. The lack of understanding (or perhaps momentary lapse of someone unused to something being ordered in kilos) of a serving clerk isn’t indicative of anything. Children learn in school that there are 1000 grams in a kilogram and that this is kind of fundamental to how the metric system works. When it comes to sliced meats and other items from the deli counter I tend to think in imperial measure and will order something like half a pound. They always figure it out. Interesting mention about Home Depot and building materials. I never really thought about it but it’s true – lumber is all in imperial units AFAIK (the old 2x4, the 2x6, drywall thickness in fractions of an inch). Another thing that remains imperial is oven temperature. Cooking directions tend to be inconsistent between metric and imperial measures when it comes to quantities, sometimes stating it in both units, but I rarely see either recipes or oven calibrations in anything other than Fahrenheit. ---
**Author:** ![drewder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/57b2e6/32.png) [@drewder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewder)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 3:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/34 "2016-08-31T03:03:24Z")
> [@Keeve](#): > > In the USA, nothing was ever forced to go metric. Yet for some reason, large bottles of soda have been in liters (in various sizes, including 1, 1.5, 2, and 3 liter bottles) for several decades. By my memory, this occurred when they switched from glass bottles (which were 28 ounces, not a quart) to much-lighter plastic. But the small bottles have remained at 8 or 12 ounces, never going metric. (I’m not mentioning the 20-ounce bottles, as they are a recent development for the sugar generation.) > > Here’s my question: Why did the large bottles go metric, yet the small ones didn’t? And why did the large bottles stay metric even when it became obvious that the USA was not going to give up their quarts and pounds? Because a liter is a convenient measure. People like their measures to be in as close to 1 as possible. (1 pound vs 453 grams, 12 ounces vs 0.35488235 liters) ---
**Author:** ![OldGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3bc359/32.png) [@OldGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OldGuy)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/35 "2016-08-31T04:26:07Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Because a liter is a convenient measure. People like their measures to be in as close to 1 as possible. That doesn’t explain the use of liters for soft drink bottles in the U.S. at all. 1 liter is 1.05668821 US fluid Quarts. They could have made 1 quart, 2 quart, 3 quart bottles just as well as 1, 2, and 3 liters. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if they are within allowed rounding error of each other for soft drinks. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/36 "2016-08-31T04:33:48Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Brits still get weighed in pounds and stones, too. This might be changing though, as many younglings I encounter know their height in cm and weight in kg first, and either don’t know, or need to think about, what those measurements are in imperial. (yes I often ask young people for their measurements, why do you ask?) But I still have only heard babies’ weights given in pounds, and many items of clothing are still only or mostly labelled in inches. So yeah it’s something of a mess. ---
**Author:** ![Dahu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dahu/32/3416_2.png) [@Dahu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dahu)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/37 "2016-08-31T04:44:32Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > Like I was saying to a pro-brexiter that I talked to last week: it would be a nice goodbye present for the EU to force the UK to adopt road signs in kilometers right before the UK leaves the EU. Good luck to the EU with that one! ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 5:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/38 "2016-08-31T05:44:16Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > At least the UK dropped their weird currency back in the 70’s. > [@Dahu](#): > > Good luck to the EU with that one! Yeah, really unlikely. There would probably have to be a transition period where all signs (including speed limits) show both, while cars make the switch from miles and MPH, then another change of signs go to pure metric. Very expensive. I don’t think the UK is going to make the switch until the day that all cars have digital displays of speed and miles, and all or most road signage is digital, rather than paint-on-metal. Sometime next century maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Feldon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lord_feldon/32/341_2.png) [@Lord\_Feldon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Feldon)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/39 "2016-08-31T05:47:59Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Yeah, really unlikely. There would probably have to be a transition period where all signs (including speed limits) show both, while cars make the switch from miles and MPH, then another change of signs go to pure metric. Very expensive. Are British cars not already bilingual? ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 6:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/40 "2016-08-31T06:02:46Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > Yeah, really unlikely. There would probably have to be a transition period where all signs (including speed limits) show both, while cars make the switch from miles and MPH, then another change of signs go to pure metric. Very expensive. We didn’t need that in Ireland. There was a transitional period when new roadsigns showed distances in km and older ones in miles. It was easy to know which was which; not only were the letters “km” an invaluable clue, but they changed the standard design specifications, so that the newer signs looked markedly different from the older ones. During this period, speed limits continued to be in m.p.h. only. Car speedometers showed both scales. At the end of the period, the speed limit signs were all replaced (there was a significant public information campaign that this was about to happen) and the remaining directional signs marked in miles were also replaced. > [@Mangetout](#): > > I don’t think the UK is going to make the switch until the day that all cars have digital displays of speed and miles, and all or most road signage is digital, rather than paint-on-metal. Sometime next century maybe. As Lord Feldon suggests, cars in the UK already have speedometers graduated in both m.p.h. and k.p.h. This has been so for years. I don’t see whey the instruments would would particularly need to be digital, though no doubt nowadays many are. There’s really no reason for directional signs ever to go digital, since the directions and distances that they show don’t change. Painted signs costs less to make and maintain, don’t consume energy while operating, and last longer. What’s not to like? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456.md?page=3)