# Has England Gone 100% Metric? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 30, 2016, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456 "2016-08-30T03:06:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/41 "2016-08-31T06:03:14Z")
> [@Lord\_Feldon](#): > > Are British cars not already bilingual? Sort of. on analogue speedometers, there’s a secondary ring of numbers indicating km/h, but they’re typically way harder to read than the mph ring - [here](http://media.clusterrepairsuk.co.uk/images/repairs/vauxhall_corsa_c_instrument_cluster_speedo_repair_service_1409852459_big.jpeg)’s a random typical example but some are even less clear than this. Its the signage that would be the bigger problem - there’s a lot of it, and much of it seems to have been designed to cram maximum information onto minimum area - so there’s not even room to affix labels with km as a secondary measurement (especially as the current units (miles) aren’t explicitly stated - that is, most signs say something like ‘Berkington 35’ (not 35 miles). ---
**Author:** ![iljitsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@iljitsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iljitsch)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/42 "2016-08-31T06:09:48Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > lumber is all in imperial units AFAIK (the old 2x4 2x4 is a marketing term. You’re not actually getting 2 by 4 inches. Not unlike the “256” “GB” drive in my computer, which isn’t 256 GB even when using the redefined smaller “GB”. ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 6:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/43 "2016-08-31T06:54:30Z")
> [@iljitsch](#): > > 2x4 is a marketing term. You’re not actually getting 2 by 4 inches. Hey now, there’s no way to tell if we have the lights off! Well the wood might’ve been 2x4" at some point, but then they had to sand it down and all that. Do all countries sell TVs and monitors in inches (with an optional cm conversion, but still primarily inches)? Is this true for all countries? E.g. [amazon.fr](http://amazon.fr) has them listed in inches, with cm in parentheses. LCD monitors are pretty true to size, but CRT monitors were also lies, and measured the size of the tube, part of which was often behind the bezel. > [@](#): > > Not unlike the “256” “GB” drive in my computer, which isn’t 256 GB even when using the redefined smaller “GB”. It’s mainly gigabytes vs. gibibytes, isn’t it? Where 256 GB = 238 GiB, while my computer claims my SSD is 232, close enough maybe. Still sneaky of them. ---
**Author:** ![Alley\_Dweller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alley_dweller/32/430_2.png) [@Alley\_Dweller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alley_Dweller)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/44 "2016-08-31T07:32:53Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/45 "2016-08-31T07:37:37Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > It’s mainly gigabytes vs. gibibytes, isn’t it? Where 256 GB = 238 GiB, while my computer claims my SSD is 232, close enough maybe. Still sneaky of them. I guess **iljitsch** might be talking about the overhead required by the disk controller and/or formatting to store the structure of the file system. No way to avoid that really. ---
**Author:** ![Bones\_Daley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@Bones\_Daley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bones_Daley)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/46 "2016-08-31T08:13:26Z")
My first wife was (is) a midwife, and I remember on the rare occasions when we talked about the nuts and bolts of her profession, she always referred to the amount of cervical dilation prior to giving birth in centimetres. This was back in the 70’s. Perhaps there are some UK medical practitioners here who can inform us as to whether this particular measurement has always been assessed in centimetres, or whether the medical profession changed from imperial to metric at some point. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 9:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/47 "2016-08-31T09:40:39Z")
As a general rule, all the scientific and engineering things went metric all the way thirty years ago. Medical too, so dilation was in cms and injections calculated in mills per kilo of bodyweight. Mothers today, when told that they have an 8lb boy, will find that his chart says he is actually 3.6 kg. Ask a Brit how much he weighs and he will most likely say 14 stones or whatever, but when he goes to the doctor his weight will go down as 95 kg (everyone lies). When I buy sliced ham in the deli - I do what I used to do in France, and order six slices or whatever. If I asked for 4 oz, the counter assistant would not raise an eyebrow but would just weigh out 115 grams. My car knows where it is, so when I recently caught a ferry to France, the computer switched over from mpg to litres per 100k; the speedo showed kph as the primary reading and the headlights switched to dipping to the right. People are slow to change and it takes generations to get these things out of a culture. Farmers are a good example as many farms are passed on through many generations and the 100 acre field is not suddenly going to morph into the 40 hectare field, whatever it says on the DEFRA plan. Timber is engineering, so that is all metric now. Back in the 70s I used to buy bulk timber, and would order 1000 feet of 10x10 (centimetres) and pay for it by the cubic yard. It just took a while to filter through. All screws and bolts are long since changed to metric, so all those BSF and Whitworth spanners in my toolbox are scrap. I think that is pretty typical of us to embrace the good bits - money, science etc, but keep to the old ways where they is no good reason to change. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/48 "2016-08-31T11:36:00Z")
> [@Bones\_Daley](#): > > One thing which has always bemused me, and this applies to the US as well as the UK, in fact I think it is worldwide, is that guitar string gauges are always measured in thousandths of an inch , so, for example a light gauge set goes .012" - .054" and a medium set goes .013" - .056" , yet the thickness of picks (plectrums ) is universally measured in millimeters. Strange. Sorry, but you’re confusing things a bit. The numbers for guitar strings are a measurement of their diameter (thickness) in inches (or sometimes mm) but that does not denote wire gauge. Wire gauge is actually the opposite with the lower the gauge number, the thicker the wire. Light, Medium, Heavy,etc. .gauges are a just label the manufacturers have given to a given grouping to give you a comparison. These are not standard either and may vary by manufacturer, “gauge”, or even string to string. This is determined by what each company believes will achieve the best tone with minimal affect on playability. Plectrums may be measured in mm but again there is no standard “gauging” and they may vary by manufacturer. The Light, Medium, Hard labels are again just for comparison within their own products. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 11:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/49 "2016-08-31T11:44:17Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > Possibly because people don’t usually think of the size in inches - it’s a “gauge”, and I refer to the high E of a light set as “012 gauge”. We forget what it’s actually measuring, as we do with shotgun gauges - a particular gun is just a “12 gauge”. > > Oh, and I don’t buy picks in mm, either. I use Fender mediums. As a musician, I buy different strings for different purposes depending on the tone I’m trying to achieve on a certain guitar. As far as buying picks, I don’t concern myself with brands, labels, or mm really. I buy them for feel and purpose. I keep a variety of thicknesses handy. Light for light strumming, medium for heavy strumming, Harder for soloing, crunching, shredding, etc… I like some texture a la Jim Dunlop which keeps me from losing picks if you’re hands get wet, etc… ---
**Author:** ![Dave.B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9f8e36/32.png) [@Dave.B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dave.B)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 11:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/50 "2016-08-31T11:50:53Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > While road signs were never metric, some councils decided that they had to sign footpaths in kilometres. I have also seen metric roadworks signs like “NO FOOTPATH FOR 100 METRES”. Bridge heights are normally signed in Imperial if they are less than 16’. Some are also signed in metric for the benefit of foreign truck drivers. It’s interesting to note that where you see temporary road works signs that count down, i.e. “800 yards”, those are actually set out on the ground at 800 metres. The difference between a yard and a metre is not considered relevant even over that distance, and it is easier to set the cones and signs out by counting the white lines and gaps on the carriageway surface, which are all measured out in metres. No cite, but this was from a course I did a few years ago at the Highways Agency (now Highways England) about the design of temporary traffic management. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/51 "2016-08-31T11:52:27Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > Do all countries sell TVs and monitors in inches (with an optional cm conversion, but still primarily inches)? Is this true for all countries? E.g. [amazon.fr](http://amazon.fr) has them listed in inches, with cm in parentheses. Yep, except no conversion. Which happens to mean redefined inches (2.54cm) rather than local inches, because again whatever unit was called “inch” locally varied wildly in size. That kind of variation was pretty much the whole reason for the metric system. Can you imagine what interstate commerce would be like if each state, or sometimes each county, had its own measurement system? That’s the mess ISO tried to solve. Don’t ask my brother about metrics for nuts and bolts. Some are Imperial, some are metric, and it is usually linked to head type but not always. It’s not so much a rant as a dissertation along the lines of “what I never ever really give a shit about regarding screws for wood vs those for brick, concrete or metal, and the advantages and disadvantages of each head type”. ---
**Author:** ![Sparky812](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/eb9ed0/32.png) [@Sparky812](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sparky812)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/52 "2016-08-31T12:25:29Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I’ve told this story here before, but I tried ordering half a kilo of lunchmeat in a Canadian supermarket once, and they didn’t understand until I rephrased it as “500 grams” (the pricing is per 100g.) That suggests a pretty poor understanding of the metric system. That’s a pretty big jump in logic. Even if true, why would one experience with one deli-counter employee suggest whether a whole nation understands the metric system? I’d also point out that meat is one product which has resisted metric. A lot of customers still order it by the ounce or in pounds and the deli worker will give them the equivalent in grams. Secondly, for deli meat, those that do use metric don’t convert to kilos but maintain the gram unit of measurement i.e. 500g, 900g, 1500g. It seems we are destined to use different measurements depending on their usage. My peeve is when for example, the news describes a bank robber as being between 180-187cm tall. Ok … even if I convert to 1.8m it’s still kinda vague. As a contractor, I’ll stick to feet and inches, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![iljitsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@iljitsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iljitsch)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/53 "2016-08-31T13:20:22Z")
> [@Dave.B](#): > > metre I guess it’ll take a while longer before the Brits will actually _spell_ their metric units correctly… ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/54 "2016-08-31T13:55:12Z")
> [@Dave.B](#): > > It’s interesting to note that where you see temporary road works signs that count down, i.e. “800 yards”, those are actually set out on the ground at 800 metres. The difference between a yard and a metre is not considered relevant even over that distance I thought something similar when I saw a sidewalk sign here in America that said “sidewalk ends in 1040 feet”. The only time that extra 40 feet would make a difference would be if a blind person with a GPS was trying to use the sidewalk. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/55 "2016-08-31T15:21:54Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > The lack of understanding (or perhaps momentary lapse of someone unused to something being ordered in kilos) of a serving clerk isn’t indicative of anything. I suppose it could be a failure of math rather than a failure of metric. “500 = ½ × 1000” is hard for some people. > [@wolfpup](#): > > Another thing that remains imperial is oven temperature. Yes. Both our oven and our thermostat are in Fahrenheit, which surprised me because weather reports and conversations are othewise consistently Celsius. In the UK our thermostats and ovens were Celsius. Having grown up in the US, I’m more comfortable with Fahrenheit, but it seems like it would be a drawback for most Canadians. ---
**Author:** ![iljitsch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/77aa72/32.png) [@iljitsch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iljitsch)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/56 "2016-08-31T15:31:51Z")
As someone who never experienced any non-metric measurements except when traveling, what I find strange is how people from metric-challenged countries seem to have no trouble mixing units. Or maybe it’s because those people aren’t good with math / aren’t engineers. When the doctor tells me that my blood pressure is 140/90 I immediately want to know how much that is in a unit that I understand, such as atmosphere or millibar. But many people seem to be fine with arbitrary units, such as elephantpaws or whatever weird and meaningless way to express pressure. ---
**Author:** ![Bones\_Daley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bc8723/32.png) [@Bones\_Daley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bones_Daley)\ **Post date:** [August 31, 2016, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/57 "2016-08-31T18:14:26Z")
> [@Sparky812](#): > > Sorry, but you’re confusing things a bit. > > The numbers for guitar strings are a measurement of their diameter (thickness) in inches (or sometimes mm) but that does not denote wire gauge. Wire gauge is actually the opposite with the lower the gauge number, the thicker the wire. > > Light, Medium, Heavy,etc. .gauges are a just label the manufacturers have given to a given grouping to give you a comparison. These are not standard either and may vary by manufacturer, “gauge”, or even string to string. This is determined by what each company believes will achieve the best tone with minimal affect on playability. > > Plectrums may be measured in mm but again there is no standard “gauging” and they may vary by manufacturer. The Light, Medium, Hard labels are again just for comparison within their own products. Okay, let’s leave out the word “gauge” altogether, since it appears to be causing confusion , and just re-iterate the bare bones of the question. Why do US based manufacturers of plectrums, or picks, choose to denote the thickness of these picks in millimeters, instead of thousandths of an inch ? ---
**Author:** ![dtilque](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d6d6ee/32.png) [@dtilque](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dtilque)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2016, 6:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/58 "2016-09-01T06:53:59Z")
> [@drewder](#): > > Because a liter is a convenient measure. People like their measures to be in as close to 1 as possible. (1 pound vs 453 grams, 12 ounces vs 0.35488235 liters) I wonder if that’s why engine displacements are now always given in liters in the US. When I bought my first car many years ago, it was Japanese and had a 1200 cc engine. At the time, American cars had displacements given in cubic inches. Now, all engines are in liters. As far as the difference in liquid measures go, the US and British are different because the UK redefined the gallon in 1824. The Imperial gallon was defined (originally) as the volume of 10 pounds of water at 62 degrees F. The US kept the old Queen Anne gallon which was defined as 231 cubic inches. That made the Imperial gallon about 20% larger. Both systems have quarts and pints with the Imperial units also being 20% larger. But for fluid ounces, the Imperial system has 20 per pint, which makes the Imperial fluid ounce slightly smaller than the US. So the redefinition broke the nice binarity (is that a word?) of the liquid measuring system. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2016, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/59 "2016-09-01T09:39:45Z")
Didn’t see anyone else mention it, but the US measurements are actually defined in terms of metric units. A pound us defined as a certain number or kilograms, for example. So even we somewhat converted. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2016, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456/60 "2016-09-01T11:05:42Z")
> [@George Carlin](#): > > So, the US is going metric. Pretty soon you and your old lady will go down to the store and cop a kilo of HAMBURGER! Or, if you’re short of bread, maybe a lid of baloney. A nickel bag of watercress? RIP, George. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-england-gone-100-metric/764456.md?page=4)