# Has Francis been doing a good job as Pope? **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [April 27, 2023, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-francis-been-doing-a-good-job-as-pope/983265 "2023-04-27T12:31:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2023, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-francis-been-doing-a-good-job-as-pope/983265/21 "2023-05-03T19:43:08Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > There hasn’t been another Great Schism or Protestant Reformation under his papacy, so as far as keeping Catholics Catholic he’s done a good job in that regard. There’s something brewing in Germany. Again… > **[A ‘Dirty Schism’ in Germany? As Synodal Way Nears Conclusion, Lay Group Warns...](https://www.ncregister.com/news/a-dirty-schism-in-germany-as-synodal-way-nears-conclusion-lay-group-warns-of-worst-possible-outcome)** > > NEWS ANALYSIS: Without decisive intervention from Rome, faithful Catholics in Germany are likely to be pushed ‘underground,’ cautions New Beginning ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2023, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-francis-been-doing-a-good-job-as-pope/983265/22 "2023-05-03T20:08:52Z")
I was just going to post that, so this means a different cite: > **[Vatican slams German reformers – DW – 07/23/2022](https://www.dw.com/en/vatican-slams-german-reformers-warns-of-potential-for-schism/a-62559108)** > > The Holy See rebuked the progressive "Synodal Path," which seeks more agency for lay members, saying it has no authority on doctrine. They warned that issues taken up by the group could split the Catholic Church. Maybe they should start looking for a church door in Wittenberg. ---
**Author:** ![EinsteinsHund](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/einsteinshund/32/8400_2.png) [@EinsteinsHund](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EinsteinsHund)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2023, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-francis-been-doing-a-good-job-as-pope/983265/23 "2023-05-03T20:10:11Z")
> [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > Maybe they should start looking for a church door in Wittenberg. Not many Catholics left in Wittenberg… ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2023, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-francis-been-doing-a-good-job-as-pope/983265/24 "2023-05-03T20:18:45Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > No, Homosexual _Sex_ is a sin, not just being homosexual. So is unmarried sex, do note. A fair clarification, and thank you. But, I suspect that the Church would say that having sexual thoughts/fantasies about someone of the opposite sex who is not your spouse is a sin; if that’s accurate, it’d follow that the Church would also say that having homosexual thoughts is just as sinful. > [@](#): > > But he has also said no one should hate LBQT+ people, which I think is important. On that, I absolutely agree. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2023, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-francis-been-doing-a-good-job-as-pope/983265/25 "2023-05-03T20:23:58Z")
> [@EinsteinsHund](#): > > Not many Catholics left in Wittenberg… But the symbolic value would make the trip worth it. In about the same way a U.S. state seceding and declaring independence on July 4th. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2023, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-francis-been-doing-a-good-job-as-pope/983265/26 "2023-05-03T20:27:27Z")
BTW: Isn’t the sin regarding fapping related to Onan? Because on reading that passage ISTM that the sin is _coitus interruptus._ ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2023, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-francis-been-doing-a-good-job-as-pope/983265/27 "2023-05-03T20:35:34Z")
Much like a President being judged by his Supreme Court appointments, one might judge a Pope by the Cardinals he names. IANA Catholic and haven’t followed these appointees closely, but it seems like several of his high-visibility appointments (Wilton Gregory in D.C., Blase Cupich of Chicago, Robert McElroy of San Diego) lean more heavily into social justice and poverty issues, and while they support Catholic teaching on abortion and LGBTQ+ issues, they’re also a good deal more sympathetic to those most directly affected by those teachings, at least compared to their predecessors. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 3, 2023, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-francis-been-doing-a-good-job-as-pope/983265/28 "2023-05-03T21:03:44Z")
I think that he’s reforming the Church as quickly as it’s actually possible to do so. If the Pope were to come out and say “Homosexuality is no problem, and women can be priests”, and all the other things you might want from the Church, then you wouldn’t get 1.3 billion Catholics saying “Oh, well OK then”. You’d see a major schism in the church, with only a small minority following the Pope, while the rest declare him invalid. Any organization that large and with that much history is only capable of changing slowly, if at all. All that said, I think that the Church’s position on transgenderism, in particular, is more nuanced than most outsiders realize, and I predict that we’ll see the first transgender male priest (i.e., born anatomically female but identifying as male) within a few decades. The Church’s current official position is that gender cannot change: That’s anti-genderfluid, but it is not anti-trans. There are plenty of people out there who will say that their gender has always been female, despite having been assigned male at birth, or vice-versa. ---
**Author:** ![Icerigger](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icerigger/32/432_2.png) [@Icerigger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icerigger)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2023, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-francis-been-doing-a-good-job-as-pope/983265/29 "2023-05-04T09:26:34Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > A fair clarification, and thank you. But, I suspect that the Church would say that having sexual thoughts/fantasies about someone of the opposite sex who is not your spouse is a sin; Indeed, having those thoughts even for your own spouse is a sin as well! Look up the church’s view of " marital chastity" sex without sexuality. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 4, 2023, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-francis-been-doing-a-good-job-as-pope/983265/31 "2023-05-04T10:05:41Z")
ISTM that the most important thing Catholic leadership should be doing is complete transparency on abuse, and they haven’t don’t that, not even close. If Francis isn’t pushing for that, and I don’t think there’s any reason to believe he is, then he’s failing his moral duty. ---
**Author:** ![Eric1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/3bc359/32.png) [@Eric1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eric1)\ **Post date:** [November 27, 2023, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-francis-been-doing-a-good-job-as-pope/983265/32 "2023-11-27T14:36:06Z")
I’m not Catholic but hope Pope Francis can keep going a little longer since he likes the position. He’s got a few serious conditions but has an upbeat personality overall. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2024, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-francis-been-doing-a-good-job-as-pope/983265/33 "2024-04-03T19:10:48Z")
I suspect this won’t help him much: > **[Pope exposes confidential details of past conclaves and settles scores with...](https://www.aol.com/news/pope-exposes-confidential-details-past-113925467.html)** > > Pope Francis has exposed the political “maneuvers” used to sway votes during the two most recent elections of popes, while denying he is planning to reform the process for future conclaves, in a book-length interview published Tuesday. The book,... ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 10:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-francis-been-doing-a-good-job-as-pope/983265/34 "2024-04-04T10:44:44Z")
I guess he’s not getting re-elected Pope. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-francis-been-doing-a-good-job-as-pope/983265/35 "2024-04-04T13:15:45Z")
No country has invaded the Vatican since Francis became Pope. They do have that Swiss Guard, and those guys have fancy knives, but the Pope always gets the credit. ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-francis-been-doing-a-good-job-as-pope/983265/36 "2024-04-04T14:09:04Z")
The Pope is the head of the Roman Catholic Church, so “good job” has to be measured by what’s good for the Church, which often doesn’t align to justice or morality. Outside of that definition I’m not sure there’s any useful definition of “good”. I will forever condemn Francis for [siding with the genocidal oppressor Russia](https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/pope-says-ukraine-should-have-courage-white-flag-negotiations-2024-03-09/) by asking Ukraine to reward Russia’s aggression with a surrender. His actions condemn large chunks of Ukraine to oppression and tyranny, and create the risk of an even more deadly war in the future. But he gets to wave his little fig leaf of “war is bad m’kay”, and maybe that’s as far as most of the RCC ever cares to consider the issue. So, simliar to Mother Teresa and a bunch of other saints/popes, Francis is pushing horrible policies that do real harm in the world, but this has always been a feature of the Catholic church, so he’s not exactly an innovator in that space. For RCC’s purposes I guess he’s a perfectly good pope. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-francis-been-doing-a-good-job-as-pope/983265/37 "2024-04-04T14:15:04Z")
> [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > Isn’t the sin regarding fapping related to Onan? > Because on reading that passage ISTM that the sin is _coitus interruptus._ People say that the Sin of Onan is masterbation (spilling your seed) but if you read the story it was “pulling out”. However the real sin was disobeying God. Onan needed to impregnate his brother’s widow so the brother’s line would continue. Onan did not want to have a child that was considered his brother’s and not his so he committed the sin of not trying to impregnate his sister-in-law. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-francis-been-doing-a-good-job-as-pope/983265/38 "2024-04-04T14:21:40Z")
Maybe he thought God wanted to see the money shot. ---
**Author:** ![mbh](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a6a055/32.png) [@mbh](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mbh)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-francis-been-doing-a-good-job-as-pope/983265/39 "2024-04-04T14:42:52Z")
It was, literally, a money shot. With a child, Onan’s family would be obligated to support the widow. Without a child, she was on her own, and certain to end up in poverty or slavery. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-francis-been-doing-a-good-job-as-pope/983265/40 "2024-04-04T14:55:41Z")
> [@HMS\_Irruncible](#): > > So, simliar to Mother Teresa and a bunch of other saints/popes, Francis is pushing horrible policies that do real harm in the world, but this has always been a feature of the Catholic church, so he’s not exactly an innovator in that space. For RCC’s purposes I guess he’s a perfectly good pope. Not to excuse him, but he only has so much wiggle room with what he can suggest to people as policy. He’s just the head, and the neck (the rest of the Church) can turn him as they like to some extent. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2024, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-francis-been-doing-a-good-job-as-pope/983265/41 "2024-04-04T15:36:06Z")
There is politics in the Vatican and the choice of pope is not divinely inspired by god? Say it ain’t so! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-francis-been-doing-a-good-job-as-pope/983265.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-francis-been-doing-a-good-job-as-pope/983265.md?page=3)