# Has Glee jumped the shark? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [March 2, 2011, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-glee-jumped-the-shark/573232 "2011-03-02T17:29:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-glee-jumped-the-shark/573232/21 "2011-03-04T18:42:07Z")
> [@Enderw24](#): > > I think the phrase “the phrase ‘jumping the shark’ has jumped the shark” has jumped the shark. I agree, actually. It’s perfectly fine way to explain what we mean when a show has reached the point where it will never return to its former quality. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-glee-jumped-the-shark/573232/22 "2011-03-04T18:43:08Z")
> [@PunditLisa](#): > > Someone should have offered up this tidbit to j.j. abrams before I wasted all those years watching “Lost.” Well, it wouldn’t have done much since he was barely involved after the first few episodes. But, yeah, they should have given it to Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse. ---
**Author:** ![brickbacon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@brickbacon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brickbacon)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-glee-jumped-the-shark/573232/23 "2011-03-04T20:31:13Z")
I agree the show has gotten worse, but more importantly, it’s just a different show. It used to be the music served the plot, now the plot serves the music. It’s basically an hour-long advertisement at this point. I suppose it’s still enjoyable on some level, but it was far better when they were less interested in preforming songs just so they could put them on itunes the next day. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [March 4, 2011, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-glee-jumped-the-shark/573232/24 "2011-03-04T20:42:30Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Well, it wouldn’t have done much since he was barely involved after the first few episodes. But, yeah, they should have given it to Damon Lindelof and Carlton Cuse. To hijack my own thread, momentarily: Lindelof & Cuse swear up & down that they knew exactly how Lost was going to play out, about 3 seasons before the end. So they wrote their bible halfway through the series (which I guess means they had to hastily ret-con some stuff). ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [March 5, 2011, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-glee-jumped-the-shark/573232/25 "2011-03-05T14:56:50Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > To hijack my own thread, momentarily: Lindelof & Cuse swear up & down that they knew exactly how Lost was going to play out, about 3 seasons before the end. So they wrote their bible halfway through the series (which I guess means they had to hastily ret-con some stuff). Exactly. It was mid-season 3 when they found out how long they’d have to tell the story and established what would be revealed when. ---
**Author:** ![fusoya](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ecccb3/32.png) [@fusoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fusoya)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-glee-jumped-the-shark/573232/26 "2011-03-06T03:14:16Z")
I’m still trying to figure out where I heard that the show would contain NOTHING supernatural or unexplained by science as we know it. Holding onto that concept really ruined the enjoyment of much of the show for me, because I was too busy looking for the man behind the curtain, when it turned out that there WASN’T one. Oh yeah, and Lost played out that way too… ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-glee-jumped-the-shark/573232/27 "2011-03-06T04:30:10Z")
I never watched it but Kathy Griffin going to be on it so I might. ---
**Author:** ![Troubles](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f4b2a3/32.png) [@Troubles](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Troubles)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 5:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-glee-jumped-the-shark/573232/28 "2011-03-06T05:25:40Z")
A show can’t jump the shark if it wasn’t good in the first place. So, no, _Glee_ has not jumped the shark. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-glee-jumped-the-shark/573232/29 "2011-03-06T16:38:37Z")
It really depends on what one means by “jump the shark”. Here’s Wikipedia on the subject: > [@](#): > > In its initial usage, it referred to the point in a television program’s history where the plot spins off into absurd story lines, unlikely characterizations and rampant addition or replacement of characters. If we go with this definition then that shark was pre-jumped, because such things have been a part of _Glee_ from the beginning. If we’re using the term to mean the point of no return for a show, the moment where it can only go downhill from there, I think it’s too early to be sure. There have been some good episodes this season, along with some very bad ones, and the season isn’t over yet. There have also been other shows that had a weak season but recovered. I think a big advantage the first season had over this one is that most of the multi-episode storylines tied back into the Quinn’s pregnancy arc: the whole Quinn/Finn/Puck/Rachel/Kurt love pentagon, conflict between the Cheerios and glee club, Terri’s fake pregnancy and the breakdown of Will’s marriage, and Rachel’s quest to find her birth mother. There hasn’t been a similar “backbone” to the show this season. The biggest story arc seems to be Kurt’s situation, but this has resulted in Kurt being removed from the main action of the series and has nothing to do with the increasingly complicated romantic drama among the students, Will’s creepy obsession with Emma, etc. But it’s possible that some of these plot threads could still come together (the Rachel’s birth mother and Quinn’s pregnancy storylines didn’t connect until the season finale last year) or that next season will have a stronger core. If _Glee_ does prove to be in an irreversible downward slide then I’d say the truly awful Britney Spears episode was the shark-jumper. Aside from the forced theme and pointless celebrity cameo, why on earth does a show that’s _already_ a musical need to have a stupid and implausible excuse (hallucinogenic dental anesthesia) for musical numbers? It’s like having an episode of _Law & Order_ where all the detectives and lawyers go to the dentist and hallucinate that they’re solving/prosecuting crimes. ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-glee-jumped-the-shark/573232/30 "2011-03-06T17:58:20Z")
> [@DMark](#): > > I think the writers of Glee might possibly have had a plan for Season 1 and part of Season 2, but then sort of lost their way and are now just throwing characters at each other to see what sticks. > > It isn’t too late to start to develop some serious mapping of plot and characterization, but if they don’t start soon, you are going to have story lines flying all over the place and nothing is going to make sense. And the cute trick of slapping in pop star du jour every week is getting less and less cute. Television Without Pity did a [feature](http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/show/glee/glee_a_guide_to_the_shows_drop.php) on this: _A Guide to the Show’s Dropped Storylines_. What happened to Finn’s best friend the quadriplegic? Why is everybody shocked that Puck is dating plus-sized Lauren, when he dated plus-sized Mercedes in Season 1? Sue made a video with Olivia Newton-John and it became an internet sensation – and disappeared! ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-glee-jumped-the-shark/573232/31 "2011-03-06T18:28:56Z")
> [@Sigmagirl](#): > > Television Without Pity did a [feature](http://www.televisionwithoutpity.com/show/glee/glee_a_guide_to_the_shows_drop.php) on this: _A Guide to the Show’s Dropped Storylines_. What happened to Finn’s best friend the quadriplegic? Why is everybody shocked that Puck is dating plus-sized Lauren, when he dated plus-sized Mercedes in Season 1? Sue made a video with Olivia Newton-John and it became an internet sensation – and disappeared! To call most of these “dropped storylines” is a stretch. “Dropped one-off plot contrivances” is more accurate. ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-glee-jumped-the-shark/573232/32 "2011-03-06T18:30:44Z")
And I don’t think they’ve dropped that Will is in love with Emma. In fact, I think they make it creepily obvious he is. ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-glee-jumped-the-shark/573232/33 "2011-03-06T18:35:53Z")
> [@Sigmagirl](#): > > Why is everybody shocked that Puck is dating plus-sized Lauren, when he dated plus-sized Mercedes in Season 1? I don’t think there’s any mystery to this one. Puck made it clear that he was only after Mercedes because she was a popular cheerleader at the time, and their relationship lasted just one episode. He seems to be genuinely attracted to Lauren. And it’s not merely her size that makes her seem like an unlikely match for Puck – she’s not very pleasant and she has always been portrayed as being at the very bottom of the school’s social hierarchy, below even the glee club kids. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-glee-jumped-the-shark/573232/34 "2011-03-06T18:39:52Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > I never watched it but Kathy Griffin going to be on it so I might. That might be a reason I might actually watch again. For some reason, I find snark about celebrities hilariously funny. I hope they allow her to use some material. I still say that jumping the shark is mostly about how a show changed for the worse, not that it just isn’t as good as it used to be. There has to be a specific change that is causing it to be worse. ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [March 6, 2011, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-glee-jumped-the-shark/573232/35 "2011-03-06T19:25:56Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > I never watched it but Kathy Griffin going to be on it so I might. And she’s playing a Sarah Palin expy. It’s almost as if Ryan Murphy thought “Gee, how can I get even more gay men to tune in”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-glee-jumped-the-shark/573232.md?page=1)