# Has Heritage Fdn killed Conservative/Libertarian political appeal to 'low IQ' Hispanics/Latinos? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [May 10, 2013, 11:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973 "2013-05-10T11:28:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/41 "2013-05-10T19:12:43Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > “Constitutionalist” is a term so meaningless as to be without practical use. Describes the Paul Family perfectly. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/42 "2013-05-10T19:46:44Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > There’s a substantial free-trade wing of the conservative base that strongly supports open borders. I don’t think so. That would be the **libertarian** base, such as it is, and substantial it is not. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/43 "2013-05-10T19:53:02Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > There is no evidence that Republicans are the party of racism. In 2002 they asked white people if they for laws against interracial marriages and Democrats were one half a percent more likely to answer yes. In 2008 they asked whites if they would vote for a black president and strong Democrats were 3.4% more likely to answer no than strong Republicans. [cite](http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2012/08/racism-by-political-party.html) Unfortunately what you have there is very weak sauce, the data is from internet surveys. (If IIUC this is good only in the sense that internet savy Republicans are better than the old fashion ones… that still vote) More reliable surveys point at the Republicans still having more racists in their big tent, but all groups still have a lot to clean up. [http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-poll-majority-harbor-prejudice-against-blacks](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-poll-majority-harbor-prejudice-against-blacks) > [@](#): > > The poll finds that racial prejudice is not limited to one group of partisans. Although Republicans were more likely than Democrats to express racial prejudice in the questions measuring explicit racism ( **79 percent among Republicans compared with 32 percent among Democrats** ), the implicit test found little difference between the two parties. That test showed a majority of both Democrats and Republicans held anti-black feelings (55 percent of Democrats and 64 percent of Republicans), as did about half of political independents (49 percent). That BTW matches with what the bubble of information is doing to racist Republicans in positions of power, the bubble convinces the ones that have racist issues to assume that a lot of what they think or say is “common knowledge”, almost all the recent scandals of racists sending racist images, jokes and other clueless acts came from republicans. And as it turns out, the bubble also is not allowing the ones that are not racist to not notice the poisoned well of information that they are relying on. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/44 "2013-05-10T19:53:56Z")
> [@](#): > > There is no evidence that Republicans are the party of racism. In 2002 they asked white people if they for laws against interracial marriages and Democrats were one half a percent more likely to answer yes. In 2008 they asked whites if they would vote for a black president and strong Democrats were 3.4% more likely to answer no than strong Republicans. cite Out of context data in a blog post? I guess the proof is irrefutable. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/45 "2013-05-10T19:58:07Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > There is no evidence that Republicans are the party of racism. :dubious: Are you completely ignorant of the GOP’s history post-1960?! ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/46 "2013-05-10T20:06:36Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Out of context data in a blog post? I guess the proof is irrefutable. I poked around and the information reported that they use internet surveys, but they also have a lot of valid surveys in their data base; however, based on other surveys and recent history I have to wonder the quality of the surveys that they are using there. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/47 "2013-05-10T20:31:54Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Unfortunately what you have there is very weak sauce, the data is from internet surveys. (If IIUC this is good only in the sense that internet savy Republicans are better than the old fashion ones… that still vote) > > More reliable surveys point at the Republicans still having more racists in their big tent, but all groups still have a lot to clean up. > > [http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-poll-majority-harbor-prejudice-against-blacks](http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ap-poll-majority-harbor-prejudice-against-blacks) > That BTW matches with what the bubble of information is doing to racist Republicans in positions of power, the bubble convinces the ones that have racist issues to assume that a lot of what they think or say is “common knowledge”, almost all the recent scandals of racists sending racist images, jokes and other clueless acts came from republicans. > > And as it turns out, the bubble also is not allowing the ones that are not racist to not notice the poisoned well of information that they are relying on. The data is not from internet surveys, the information you quoted was from internet surveys. The information I linked to was from the GSS. Furthermore the implicit test you linked to is a better test of racism than the explicit tests as is the questions I linked to. Negative perceptions is not the same as racism. There are plenty of examples of Democrat racism it is just that Democrats don’t remember them because it is inconvenient to their self-perception. The recent comments about Nikki Haley, or Bill Clinton saying that Barak Obama should be getting him coffee. ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/48 "2013-05-10T20:32:45Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > I don’t think so. That would be the **libertarian** base, such as it is, and substantial it is not. Correction: I should have written Republican base, not conservative base. It’s a difficult issue for Republicans, because their support for bootstrapping, hard work, and free trade conflicts with their support for law and order and national security. So, you get muddled results, like this [poll of Republicans indicates](http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/republicans-immigration-reform/2013/05/01/id/502320). > [@](#): > > Fewer than one in four likely voters who identify themselves as Republicans think immigration is bad for America, the poll found, though 82 percent think the current system is broken. > > Seventy-two percent of GOP voters want broad immigration reforms, the poll found, and seventy-one percent believe the Gang of Eight bill will strengthen border security. > > While 31 percent of Republicans think immigration is good for America, less than the 44 percent overall — and only 24 percent of Republicans — think it is bad for the country. Fifteen percent overall think it is bad. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/49 "2013-05-10T21:04:50Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > The data is not from internet surveys, the information you quoted was from internet surveys. The information I linked to was from the GSS. > Furthermore the implicit test you linked to is a better test of racism than the explicit tests as is the questions I linked to. Negative perceptions is not the same as racism. > There are plenty of examples of Democrat racism it is just that Democrats don’t remember them because it is inconvenient to their self-perception. The recent comments about Nikki Haley, or Bill Clinton saying that Barak Obama should be getting him coffee. The information was collected **online** , but not like the typical internet polls that one sees on many newscasts, the online bit is referring to the use of computers to question the subjects. > [@](#): > > All the surveys were conducted online. Other research has shown that poll takers are more likely to share unpopular attitudes when they are filling out a survey using a computer rather than speaking with an interviewer. Respondents were randomly selected from a nationally representative panel maintained by GfK Custom Research. The survey I quoted also looked at \*\*explicit \*\* racism. An area that more Republicans than Democrats have an issue with. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/50 "2013-05-10T21:12:10Z")
I think the take home point here is that there is evidence that Republicans on the whole are not a racist party, but the racists are more numerous there, and even working for Republican [del]stink [/del] think tanks. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/51 "2013-05-10T22:14:51Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > Correction: I should have written Republican base, not conservative base. It’s a difficult issue for Republicans, because their support for bootstrapping, hard work, and free trade conflicts with their support for law and order and national security. So, you get muddled results, like this [poll of Republicans indicates](http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/republicans-immigration-reform/2013/05/01/id/502320). > [@](#): > > The poll was conducted April 22-23 by The Winston Group. It was commissioned by The Partnership for a New American Economy, Grover Norquist of Americans for Tax Reform and Ali Noorani from the National Immigration Forum. Try posting something from Rassmussen next time. No, don’t. [Here’s](http://www.people-press.org/2011/05/04/typology-group-profiles/) a better breakdown, I think of Pubs’ (and others’) attitudes on immigration (read in the “Key Beliefs” boxes). Note that a majority of both “Staunch Conservatives” (67%) and “Main Street Republicans” (56%) agree with the statement, “The growing number of newcomers from other countries threatens traditional American customs and values.” (But only 37% of “Libertarians” agree; but, that group is only 28% Republican, 49% Independent-Leaning-Republican.) While majorities from the Democrat-leaning groups agree with the statement, “The growing number of newcomers from other countries strengthens American society.” – With the notable exception of the “Hard-Pressed Democrats,” 76% of whom agree with the statement, “Immigrants today are a burden on our country because they take our jobs, housing and health care.” The Dems appear more divided on immigration than the Pubs. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/52 "2013-05-10T22:15:25Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > He gives a whole long list of things that correlate with IQ. How strongly? What’s the value of some of these correlations? Are there better predictors? > [@puddleglum](#): > > He discusses immigrants and both having a job and staying out of prison. Immigrants have a higher labor force participation rates and lower incarceration rates than natives but immigrant’s children have lower labor force participation rates and higher incarceration rates than natives. So immigration is not the problem then? What’s the median income of the children relative to their parents? How much higher and lower are the rates of incarceration and labor force participation, respectively? > [@puddleglum](#): > > The conclusion of the paper can be illustrated like this. Imagine there are two people John and Bob who both live abroad. John is smarter than Bob and earns $2K a year to Bob’s $1K a year. If they moved to the US, John could earn $50K a year and Bob could earn $30K a year. If the goal of immigration is to benefit the US economy the most than it makes sense to choose John instead of Bob. Since it is impossible to test for earning potential[ You can’t test for earning potential? Do you think it is easier and less expensive to write up and evaluate an IQ test or have the immigrant submit a pay stub? > [@puddleglum](#): > > it is best to test for IQ which is highly correlated with earning potential. Furthermore since IQ is highly heritable it is likely that John’s progeny will outearn Bob’s progeny, increasing the benefit to the US for choosing John over Bob. How highly correlated with earning potential among immigrants? So you want to make this a genetic argument…ok…personality is also highly heritable. The personalities of the immigrants are that of hard-work, low levels of criminal involvement, and a willingness to take dangerous risks to support their loved-ones. Since, to some degree which was not specified, immigrants’ children fair worse than their parents on working and criminality, doesn’t that argue there is something wrong with America? As to the OP, I do not think Republicans can be less well thought of among immigrant populations than they are now. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/53 "2013-05-10T22:22:51Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > I think the take home point here is that there is evidence that Republicans on the whole are not a racist party, but the racists are more numerous there, and even working for Republican [del]stink [/del] think tanks. More numerous there because they are more **welcome** there. [Ever since . . .](http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Southern_strategy) The important thing here is that **movement conservatism** is largely racist, and has progressively (if that’s an appropriate word) taken over the GOP. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/54 "2013-05-10T22:26:03Z")
> [@puddleglum](#): > > Republicans have always had a problem with Latino voters, (Dukakis got a higher percentage of the Latino vote than Obama did in 2008). In the 2008 exit polls Latinos favored a more active government over a less active government 71% to 29%. In the same exit poll 75% of Latino voters said they prefer a larger government even with higher taxes. Since the Democrat party is the party of higher taxes and big government, it makes sense that Latinos vote for that party. And yet I keep encountering a lot of talk on the Intertubes about how Latinos, most of whom are socially conservative Catholics, ought to be a natural base for the GOP. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/55 "2013-05-10T22:27:55Z")
> [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](#): > > So you want to make this a genetic argument…ok…personality is also highly heritable. The personalities of the immigrants are that of hard-work, low levels of criminal involvement, and a willingness to take dangerous risks to support their loved-ones. Since, to some degree which was not specified, immigrants’ children fair worse than their parents on working and criminality, doesn’t that argue there is something wrong with America? Sure, the Pubs have already put their finger on that, hadn’t you heard? It’s because of violence in movies and videogames! (Which also accounts for the high rate of violent crime in Japan, where the games come from . . .) ---
**Author:** ![Human\_Action](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/ac91a4/32.png) [@Human\_Action](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Human_Action)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/56 "2013-05-10T22:33:32Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Try posting something from Rassmussen next time. No, don’t. > > [Here’s](http://www.people-press.org/2011/05/04/typology-group-profiles/) a better breakdown, I think of Pubs’ (and others’) attitudes on immigration (read in the “Key Beliefs” boxes). Note that a majority of both “Staunch Conservatives” (67%) and “Main Street Republicans” (56%) agree with the statement, “The growing number of newcomers from other countries threatens traditional American customs and values.” (But only 37% of “Libertarians” agree; but, that group is only 28% Republican, 49% Independent-Leaning-Republican.) So, 33% of “Staunch Conservatives” and 44% of “Main Street Republicans” don’t count as a “substantial” part of the base. Are you sure about that? > [@BrainGlutton](#): > > While majorities from the Democrat-leaning groups agree with the statement, “The growing number of newcomers from other countries strengthens American society.” – With the notable exception of the “Hard-Pressed Democrats,” 76% of whom agree with the statement, “Immigrants today are a burden on our country because they take our jobs, housing and health care.” > > The Dems appear more divided on immigration than the Pubs. I’m sure; the Democrats have a bigger tent. ---
**Author:** ![Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/aca169/32.png) [@Inbred\_Mm\_domesticus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inbred_Mm_domesticus)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/57 "2013-05-10T23:02:56Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Sure, the Pubs have already put their finger on that, hadn’t you heard? It’s because of violence in movies and videogames! (Which also accounts for the high rate of violent crime in Japan, where the games come from . . .) Ugly isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 11:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/58 "2013-05-10T23:14:16Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I’m sure; the Democrats have a bigger tent. Guess what else? 😉 [rimshot] ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [May 10, 2013, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/59 "2013-05-10T23:49:27Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Sure, the Pubs have already put their finger on that, hadn’t you heard? It’s because of violence in movies and videogames! (Which also accounts for the high rate of violent crime in Japan, where the games come from . . .) So video games cause attacks by giant atomic lizards?! That’s violent all right. ---
**Author:** ![NotfooledbyW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f475e1/32.png) [@NotfooledbyW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NotfooledbyW)\ **Post date:** [May 11, 2013, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973/60 "2013-05-11T01:03:21Z")
> [@Human\_Action](#): > > I don’t think it’s that simple. He could just be bad at science; and falling victim to garbage-in, garbage-out, arguing for the logical conclusion suggested by a faulty premise. Also, according to the article, he recommended allowing in individual Hispanics who are sufficiently intelligent: > > White Supremacist thought I’ve encountered is based on racial purity, and would reject accepting _any_ non-whites as equals. > > And, naturally, white nationalism requires advocating for a nation of only whites. You think hard core white supremacists aren’t cunning and clever enough with their higher IQ’s to present themselves as less extreme in public? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/has-heritage-fdn-killed-conservative-libertarian-political-appeal-to-low-iq-hispanics-latinos/657973.md?page=4)